Companies can't keep employees from bringing guns to work
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You go answer my Dimage Z6 question and then you can come back and pick on my spelling mistakes. :P regards, Paul Watson South Africa Colib and ilikecameras. K(arl) wrote: oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!
Paul Watson wrote: You go answer my Dimage Z6 question and then you can come back and pick on my spelling mistakes. ;P I'm getting there, but CP's as slow as a Seuth Efricken, I've had less than 6 hours sleep in 2 stints in the past 52 hours, I'm drinking beer again (shocked I'm sure), having just finished 13 hours work between the 2 jobs at Public Holiday rates. Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So i had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash 24/04/2004
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Ahh but you have fallen into the lil trap.. Owning a gun is illeagal in the UK but you still have gun crime. And that crime is rising. So making it illeagal to own a gun only hurts those who follwed the law. Criminals don't care if they break 3 loaws or 10 at a time but you think it is ok to stop me from protecting myself from them. Giles wrote: The past two years the police have been focusing on gun crime deaths, for which about 99% are black on black shootings between drug gangs. Yes and if they are under 20 they will be counted as Kid crimes as well. Giles wrote: This is not even murders (never mind just gun merders), which compared to the US is practically zero. Last year there were 97 gun related murders for the whole nation of 60 million people. You get that in one bad city in the US over the weekend!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now talk about blowing smoke stats. Maybe in a quarter in the worst city. But them again we have 400 mil people. And I happen to work in one of the top 3. Sso why do I have to wait for the po-po to show up? Oh and they are 5 calls behind when they get in a car for the shift, plus many many layoffs this year in their force.
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L_u_r_k_e_r wrote: Owning a gun is illeagal in the UK but you still have gun crime. Not sure I understand the point of that argument. It applies to any crime...murdering people is illegal in the UK, but people still get murdered...
The point is that the gun ban in the UK was advertised (prior to its passage) as the way to reduce gun crime. It has not had that effect. One could argue it has had the opposite effect.
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It lets the guy who just got fired cool down instead of being able to walk outside to his car, get his gun and give his notice point blank to the boss. regards, Paul Watson South Africa Colib and ilikecameras. K(arl) wrote: oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!
Having handled a lot of firearms in my days and having been trained well to use them I've concluded a few things in my brief life. Guns are not the problem, not at all. Let me explain. In the year 2000 my son (first child) born. This set in motion a series of events I'll never regret. * I used to have a concealed carry permit. I expired it. * 3 months before my son was born I sold ever gun I have. They were all compact hand guns. * I made sure my father placed all of his guns in a safe under lock and key. * I make sure that people who own guns have them locked up before my kids go their home. = Guns are not the problem though. People of every background make mistakes. In the military weapons are checked out and checked back in. You carry them in combat you cache them when the operation/mission is complete and you are safe. It's a good policy. In the U.S. you can freely carry firearms and I've spoken with enough highly trained authorities in law-enforcement that believe your stock profile american should carry a firearm at all times. I agree. Why did I sell mine and purge firearms of every type from my life? I've seen what guns can do. It's horrifying. I don't want that image to be of one of my children. You might argue that you can teach your kids this and that and it's all true. I've been around guns I know them. They have no part in my life. Here's the thing. Accidents happen, it's horrible it's frightening. People get caught up in a lot of accidents and many involve accidentally discharged firearms. Not on my watch... You say that you need them for safety. I agree. I will also tell you that short of you drawing a gun and shooting me instantly me unaware that I'll be able to handle you very effectively guns or not. If you shoot me unaware I could have 6 guns and it wouldn't matter. If you have to reach for a weapon and I see that, I own you that gun will never clear it's concealment. So we've addressed the fact that the only way most people get killed by guns is by surprise or accident. If someone brings a gun into the workplace and you also have one and like most Americans you have no idea how to use a firearm under extreme pressure you probably just got yourself killed. Weapons in the workplace are frightening and pose a situation very difficult to manage. If someone else *untrained* has a weapon as well then the mix just got deadly and perhaps a good negotiator could have avoided the problem. Good negotiators are all over the place. These are fathers and mothers who want to see their k
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Having handled a lot of firearms in my days and having been trained well to use them I've concluded a few things in my brief life. Guns are not the problem, not at all. Let me explain. In the year 2000 my son (first child) born. This set in motion a series of events I'll never regret. * I used to have a concealed carry permit. I expired it. * 3 months before my son was born I sold ever gun I have. They were all compact hand guns. * I made sure my father placed all of his guns in a safe under lock and key. * I make sure that people who own guns have them locked up before my kids go their home. = Guns are not the problem though. People of every background make mistakes. In the military weapons are checked out and checked back in. You carry them in combat you cache them when the operation/mission is complete and you are safe. It's a good policy. In the U.S. you can freely carry firearms and I've spoken with enough highly trained authorities in law-enforcement that believe your stock profile american should carry a firearm at all times. I agree. Why did I sell mine and purge firearms of every type from my life? I've seen what guns can do. It's horrifying. I don't want that image to be of one of my children. You might argue that you can teach your kids this and that and it's all true. I've been around guns I know them. They have no part in my life. Here's the thing. Accidents happen, it's horrible it's frightening. People get caught up in a lot of accidents and many involve accidentally discharged firearms. Not on my watch... You say that you need them for safety. I agree. I will also tell you that short of you drawing a gun and shooting me instantly me unaware that I'll be able to handle you very effectively guns or not. If you shoot me unaware I could have 6 guns and it wouldn't matter. If you have to reach for a weapon and I see that, I own you that gun will never clear it's concealment. So we've addressed the fact that the only way most people get killed by guns is by surprise or accident. If someone brings a gun into the workplace and you also have one and like most Americans you have no idea how to use a firearm under extreme pressure you probably just got yourself killed. Weapons in the workplace are frightening and pose a situation very difficult to manage. If someone else *untrained* has a weapon as well then the mix just got deadly and perhaps a good negotiator could have avoided the problem. Good negotiators are all over the place. These are fathers and mothers who want to see their k
Good post cf. On a personal level I don't think I could pull the trigger when push comes to shove. Not to defend myself or anyone else. Sure, it is a manly thing to think you will rise to the challenge when your women folk are in danger but the "manly thing" is fast disapearing. I have never even held a proper gun. I have never been in a situation where one was required either (and I live in South Africa which has about the worst crime rate in the world.) I don't think I could calmly level a gun at a living being and pull that trigger. Knowing it would likely kill them. Even for protection. I think I'd be an absolute wreck after killing someone, even someone who was attempting to murder me. I am just being honest here. It isn't ideal I realise, there are times and situations that call for this and... well I'm not your man, sorry. And I don't think many men are. Women either. The best I could do is pull the trigger in fright and that is no way to protect anyone, just as likely shoot them as the attacker. I mean most of us just have not grown up in the kind of world where on a regular basis you are in tough situations. We have it so easy, and so nice. Maybe the army could make a killer out of me but I'd be damned screwed afterwards I realise. regards, Paul Watson South Africa Colib and ilikecameras. K(arl) wrote: oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!
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Having handled a lot of firearms in my days and having been trained well to use them I've concluded a few things in my brief life. Guns are not the problem, not at all. Let me explain. In the year 2000 my son (first child) born. This set in motion a series of events I'll never regret. * I used to have a concealed carry permit. I expired it. * 3 months before my son was born I sold ever gun I have. They were all compact hand guns. * I made sure my father placed all of his guns in a safe under lock and key. * I make sure that people who own guns have them locked up before my kids go their home. = Guns are not the problem though. People of every background make mistakes. In the military weapons are checked out and checked back in. You carry them in combat you cache them when the operation/mission is complete and you are safe. It's a good policy. In the U.S. you can freely carry firearms and I've spoken with enough highly trained authorities in law-enforcement that believe your stock profile american should carry a firearm at all times. I agree. Why did I sell mine and purge firearms of every type from my life? I've seen what guns can do. It's horrifying. I don't want that image to be of one of my children. You might argue that you can teach your kids this and that and it's all true. I've been around guns I know them. They have no part in my life. Here's the thing. Accidents happen, it's horrible it's frightening. People get caught up in a lot of accidents and many involve accidentally discharged firearms. Not on my watch... You say that you need them for safety. I agree. I will also tell you that short of you drawing a gun and shooting me instantly me unaware that I'll be able to handle you very effectively guns or not. If you shoot me unaware I could have 6 guns and it wouldn't matter. If you have to reach for a weapon and I see that, I own you that gun will never clear it's concealment. So we've addressed the fact that the only way most people get killed by guns is by surprise or accident. If someone brings a gun into the workplace and you also have one and like most Americans you have no idea how to use a firearm under extreme pressure you probably just got yourself killed. Weapons in the workplace are frightening and pose a situation very difficult to manage. If someone else *untrained* has a weapon as well then the mix just got deadly and perhaps a good negotiator could have avoided the problem. Good negotiators are all over the place. These are fathers and mothers who want to see their k
I train and train and train. I was a scout sniper in the Marines. I am a part time Sheriff Deputy. I know about weapon reetention and how to disarm you. I have been through countless schools on my own cost (Masaad Ayoob LFI series, Lou Chiodo Gunfighters LTD, TDI, etc). I also teach the CCW course here and weapon selection / holster selection is an added topic I Iinclude. I have witnessed the damage that can occur. I shoot competitevly IPSC and IDPA. I can draw and shoot very fast. Yes if you have the drop it is stupid to try and draw. That I agess with but to walk around thinking nothing can happen you are a fool.
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Good post cf. On a personal level I don't think I could pull the trigger when push comes to shove. Not to defend myself or anyone else. Sure, it is a manly thing to think you will rise to the challenge when your women folk are in danger but the "manly thing" is fast disapearing. I have never even held a proper gun. I have never been in a situation where one was required either (and I live in South Africa which has about the worst crime rate in the world.) I don't think I could calmly level a gun at a living being and pull that trigger. Knowing it would likely kill them. Even for protection. I think I'd be an absolute wreck after killing someone, even someone who was attempting to murder me. I am just being honest here. It isn't ideal I realise, there are times and situations that call for this and... well I'm not your man, sorry. And I don't think many men are. Women either. The best I could do is pull the trigger in fright and that is no way to protect anyone, just as likely shoot them as the attacker. I mean most of us just have not grown up in the kind of world where on a regular basis you are in tough situations. We have it so easy, and so nice. Maybe the army could make a killer out of me but I'd be damned screwed afterwards I realise. regards, Paul Watson South Africa Colib and ilikecameras. K(arl) wrote: oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!
Exactly right. Leveling a firearm at another living person is a life changing experience on several orders of magnitude and that's exactly why I believe most people should not carry firearms. The pressure and stress along with the full realization of what you are about to do is more than people not properly trained can handle. The very best thing that people who are concerned about their safety can do is train and discipline themselves to handling that danger without guns. You can completely disable a person (not kill them) in seconds with your hands and legs and you don't need a lot of training to know how. You will need lots of practice so it becomes automatic but not a ton of training. The single most important thing is to learn how to read situations. I can read danger in a split second and I can tell you that if someone got on a bus I was on and was waiving a gun I'd sit there very patiently. I would not identify myself I probably wouldn't do much of anything. If he started capping people off and got close enough to me I'd drop him without even having to stand up but that's my background. As long as he was just ranting at everyone and didn't shoot I'd let him be. S.W.A.T. would be along soon enough and I'd let pros with 50 caliber long sniper rifles take him if they wanted. If you pack a gun and have not been trained for combat, close-quarters-combat and have not been throughly instructed in how to deal with the emotions and what your body will do when it's time to end a human life you are a fool. Your gun will most likely get you killed. The nausea, the crushing wave of emotions, the sudden realization of finallity will be too much for most people. This sounds sick but unless you've been trained to just *click* the trigger not even thinking about it. Just squeeze and release and acquire the next target you are a fool. You have no business carrying a gun and you are a danger to those around you. I believe guns are only necessary in about .01% of self defense situations. The other 99.99% of situations being a fast thinker, calm and rational is all the defense you need. If things get violent hands don't need to be reloaded, feet hit with more impact than a .45 caliber round at point blank and police cannot charge you with deadly assault because you just iced one of their under cover officers. Guns create possibilities for all manner of troubles in your life. - Rex
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I train and train and train. I was a scout sniper in the Marines. I am a part time Sheriff Deputy. I know about weapon reetention and how to disarm you. I have been through countless schools on my own cost (Masaad Ayoob LFI series, Lou Chiodo Gunfighters LTD, TDI, etc). I also teach the CCW course here and weapon selection / holster selection is an added topic I Iinclude. I have witnessed the damage that can occur. I shoot competitevly IPSC and IDPA. I can draw and shoot very fast. Yes if you have the drop it is stupid to try and draw. That I agess with but to walk around thinking nothing can happen you are a fool.
L_u_r_k_e_r wrote: to walk around thinking nothing can happen you are a fool. I never claimed that. I've been in enough hostile situations to know anything can happen. Put enough men in a room and add alcohol and you just created a dangerous environment. Let one of them leave angry about something and now you have loose trouble roaming. In America at any given time angry, intoxicated, males are on the go and by the 100,000's. I never claimed nothing can happen, quite the opposite in fact.
Some assembly required. Code-frog System Architects, Inc.
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L_u_r_k_e_r wrote: to walk around thinking nothing can happen you are a fool. I never claimed that. I've been in enough hostile situations to know anything can happen. Put enough men in a room and add alcohol and you just created a dangerous environment. Let one of them leave angry about something and now you have loose trouble roaming. In America at any given time angry, intoxicated, males are on the go and by the 100,000's. I never claimed nothing can happen, quite the opposite in fact.
Some assembly required. Code-frog System Architects, Inc.
code-frog wrote: I never claimed nothing can happen, quite the opposite in fact. I was not implying you did. just saying that in general.
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Good post cf. On a personal level I don't think I could pull the trigger when push comes to shove. Not to defend myself or anyone else. Sure, it is a manly thing to think you will rise to the challenge when your women folk are in danger but the "manly thing" is fast disapearing. I have never even held a proper gun. I have never been in a situation where one was required either (and I live in South Africa which has about the worst crime rate in the world.) I don't think I could calmly level a gun at a living being and pull that trigger. Knowing it would likely kill them. Even for protection. I think I'd be an absolute wreck after killing someone, even someone who was attempting to murder me. I am just being honest here. It isn't ideal I realise, there are times and situations that call for this and... well I'm not your man, sorry. And I don't think many men are. Women either. The best I could do is pull the trigger in fright and that is no way to protect anyone, just as likely shoot them as the attacker. I mean most of us just have not grown up in the kind of world where on a regular basis you are in tough situations. We have it so easy, and so nice. Maybe the army could make a killer out of me but I'd be damned screwed afterwards I realise. regards, Paul Watson South Africa Colib and ilikecameras. K(arl) wrote: oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!
Paul Watson wrote: ...that is no way to protect anyone, just as likely shoot them as the attacker. There was a pretty good example of that right here in CA recently. http://www.statesman.com/news/content/shared-gen/ap/National/Student_Slain.html[^] A girl called a friend for protection from a group of guys. Asked him to "bring the heat" He brought the heat, shot at her assailants ... and killed her accidentally. Steve T
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Good post cf. On a personal level I don't think I could pull the trigger when push comes to shove. Not to defend myself or anyone else. Sure, it is a manly thing to think you will rise to the challenge when your women folk are in danger but the "manly thing" is fast disapearing. I have never even held a proper gun. I have never been in a situation where one was required either (and I live in South Africa which has about the worst crime rate in the world.) I don't think I could calmly level a gun at a living being and pull that trigger. Knowing it would likely kill them. Even for protection. I think I'd be an absolute wreck after killing someone, even someone who was attempting to murder me. I am just being honest here. It isn't ideal I realise, there are times and situations that call for this and... well I'm not your man, sorry. And I don't think many men are. Women either. The best I could do is pull the trigger in fright and that is no way to protect anyone, just as likely shoot them as the attacker. I mean most of us just have not grown up in the kind of world where on a regular basis you are in tough situations. We have it so easy, and so nice. Maybe the army could make a killer out of me but I'd be damned screwed afterwards I realise. regards, Paul Watson South Africa Colib and ilikecameras. K(arl) wrote: oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!
Paul Watson wrote: I don't think I could calmly level a gun at a living being and pull that trigger. I understand the feeling. But I think if I were forced into such a situation, I could do it. I'd feel awful about it, even though logically I'd be in the "right" it would still feel awful.
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Nope most of us will have lock boxes in our vehcles or keep them in the safest place on our bodies.
The question is what on earth are people doing carrying guns in the first place? The tigress is here :-D
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Paul Watson wrote: ...that is no way to protect anyone, just as likely shoot them as the attacker. There was a pretty good example of that right here in CA recently. http://www.statesman.com/news/content/shared-gen/ap/National/Student_Slain.html[^] A girl called a friend for protection from a group of guys. Asked him to "bring the heat" He brought the heat, shot at her assailants ... and killed her accidentally. Steve T
And CA has no provision for carrying a conceled weapon. Most likely some stupid punk. Yep gving the cops a fake name and all. Lets see 1st mistake arguing witha group of peoplee. 2nd calling for someeone to bring a gun. 3rd Him carrying a concealed weapon wiith no permit. 4th him shooting. 5th lying to the cops. Prime example of stupidity.
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Ahh but you have fallen into the lil trap.. Owning a gun is illeagal in the UK but you still have gun crime. And that crime is rising. So making it illeagal to own a gun only hurts those who follwed the law. Criminals don't care if they break 3 loaws or 10 at a time but you think it is ok to stop me from protecting myself from them. Giles wrote: The past two years the police have been focusing on gun crime deaths, for which about 99% are black on black shootings between drug gangs. Yes and if they are under 20 they will be counted as Kid crimes as well. Giles wrote: This is not even murders (never mind just gun merders), which compared to the US is practically zero. Last year there were 97 gun related murders for the whole nation of 60 million people. You get that in one bad city in the US over the weekend!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now talk about blowing smoke stats. Maybe in a quarter in the worst city. But them again we have 400 mil people. And I happen to work in one of the top 3. Sso why do I have to wait for the po-po to show up? Oh and they are 5 calls behind when they get in a car for the shift, plus many many layoffs this year in their force.
It's about the gun culture and carrying a firearm in the car as routine spreads that. This has to be dealt with at all levels. The tigress is here :-D
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Ahh but you have fallen into the lil trap.. Owning a gun is illeagal in the UK but you still have gun crime. And that crime is rising. So making it illeagal to own a gun only hurts those who follwed the law. Criminals don't care if they break 3 loaws or 10 at a time but you think it is ok to stop me from protecting myself from them. Giles wrote: The past two years the police have been focusing on gun crime deaths, for which about 99% are black on black shootings between drug gangs. Yes and if they are under 20 they will be counted as Kid crimes as well. Giles wrote: This is not even murders (never mind just gun merders), which compared to the US is practically zero. Last year there were 97 gun related murders for the whole nation of 60 million people. You get that in one bad city in the US over the weekend!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now talk about blowing smoke stats. Maybe in a quarter in the worst city. But them again we have 400 mil people. And I happen to work in one of the top 3. Sso why do I have to wait for the po-po to show up? Oh and they are 5 calls behind when they get in a car for the shift, plus many many layoffs this year in their force.
L_u_r_k_e_r wrote: Ahh but you have fallen into the lil trap.. Owning a gun is illeagal in the UK but you still have gun crime. And that crime is rising. So making it illeagal to own a gun only hurts those who follwed the law. Criminals don't care if they break 3 loaws or 10 at a time but you think it is ok to stop me from protecting myself from them. You keep pushing the point that banning guns outright only hurts law abiding citizens. What you fail to realize (or just fail to mention because it doesn't fit your gun-obsessed philosophy) is that in countries like the UK where guns are illegal it is MUCH harder for everyone--even the criminals--to get hold of guns and ammunition in the first place. In countries where guns are illegal there aren't dozens of gun shops in every city, they don't sell ammunition in supermartkets, there aren't hundreds of households containing legal guns ripe for the picking of criminals (many guns used in USA crime are stolen from legal gun owners) and in particular they don't have "flea market" type gun shows at which gun licensing background checks can be circumvented by ridiculous loopholes in the licensing law. -- modified at 21:16 Tuesday 4th October, 2005
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And CA has no provision for carrying a conceled weapon. Most likely some stupid punk. Yep gving the cops a fake name and all. Lets see 1st mistake arguing witha group of peoplee. 2nd calling for someeone to bring a gun. 3rd Him carrying a concealed weapon wiith no permit. 4th him shooting. 5th lying to the cops. Prime example of stupidity.
L_u_r_k_e_r wrote: Lets see 1st mistake arguing witha group of peoplee... gun. Yeah of course, it's not guns that kill people. It people that ask to get themselves shot. Steve T
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L_u_r_k_e_r wrote: Lets see 1st mistake arguing witha group of peoplee... gun. Yeah of course, it's not guns that kill people. It people that ask to get themselves shot. Steve T
It's people making stupid decisions in life that put themselves in danger. I go and get into an argument with a group of people so I am now part to blame for the result of said actions. I then ask someone to bring a gun to "solve" said argumnent. I then get shot. Lets see I should feel sorry for the person who made these stupid choices? She instigated the argument or at least escalated the situation in either case she is culpable for the outcome. Asked an idiot to bring a gun. The idiot brought the gun and started shooting. How would we feel if she got into the argument, called people and then got beat up or stabbed? I have no problem with carrying a gun but if you do you must be 100% in the clear. You can have no part in the argument or escalation of it. You have to be defensive. You have to try all means of escape.
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It's people making stupid decisions in life that put themselves in danger. I go and get into an argument with a group of people so I am now part to blame for the result of said actions. I then ask someone to bring a gun to "solve" said argumnent. I then get shot. Lets see I should feel sorry for the person who made these stupid choices? She instigated the argument or at least escalated the situation in either case she is culpable for the outcome. Asked an idiot to bring a gun. The idiot brought the gun and started shooting. How would we feel if she got into the argument, called people and then got beat up or stabbed? I have no problem with carrying a gun but if you do you must be 100% in the clear. You can have no part in the argument or escalation of it. You have to be defensive. You have to try all means of escape.
Sure, if everyone who owned a gun legally used it responsibly and kept it completely safe, and if it was as difficult for criminals to obtain guns in a gun-ridden society like the USA as it is in a gun-free society then, yes, there would be no real agrument against gun ownership. But that is not the case and never will be. As for it being a constitutional right: The 2nd ammendment is obsolete. Unfortunately it is still in force and is so vaguely worded that gun lobbyists have been able impose in large part their very loose interpretation onto the legislation that has flowed from that ammendment. Even if it weren't obsolete I'd like to know at what point "A well regulated militia" got translated into "Every Tom, Dick and Harry with no criminal record". If you want to go with the loosest possible interpretation of the 2nd ammendment then every person could own any weapon he could carry (if we allow that you can't "bear" a tank, etc) This may have seemed quite reasonable at a time when the country had just wrested freedom from a foreign tyrant, the entire able bodied, male population had been in, or been expected to be available for duty in, "A well regulated militia" and the most powerful "bearable" weapon imaginable was a musket. It is so patenty ridiculous to extend that right to a population of 200 million people in a county over 200 years free of tyrany (unless you count GW as a tyrant ;) ) and in possesion of modern weaponry unimaginable to the framers. If the price of a "gun-free" society is for gun sportsmen to have to jump through a few extra hoops to get their gun, and to follow some stricter rules in its use then I am willing to pay that price (I owned guns in the UK where that was the case) Until 2nd ammendment is repealled I will support the lawmakers who choose to interpret it in the most restrictive way possble. You are apparently so enamoured of easy gun-ownership that you seem completely blind to the overwhelming advantages of having a gun free society. Steve T
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Sure, if everyone who owned a gun legally used it responsibly and kept it completely safe, and if it was as difficult for criminals to obtain guns in a gun-ridden society like the USA as it is in a gun-free society then, yes, there would be no real agrument against gun ownership. But that is not the case and never will be. As for it being a constitutional right: The 2nd ammendment is obsolete. Unfortunately it is still in force and is so vaguely worded that gun lobbyists have been able impose in large part their very loose interpretation onto the legislation that has flowed from that ammendment. Even if it weren't obsolete I'd like to know at what point "A well regulated militia" got translated into "Every Tom, Dick and Harry with no criminal record". If you want to go with the loosest possible interpretation of the 2nd ammendment then every person could own any weapon he could carry (if we allow that you can't "bear" a tank, etc) This may have seemed quite reasonable at a time when the country had just wrested freedom from a foreign tyrant, the entire able bodied, male population had been in, or been expected to be available for duty in, "A well regulated militia" and the most powerful "bearable" weapon imaginable was a musket. It is so patenty ridiculous to extend that right to a population of 200 million people in a county over 200 years free of tyrany (unless you count GW as a tyrant ;) ) and in possesion of modern weaponry unimaginable to the framers. If the price of a "gun-free" society is for gun sportsmen to have to jump through a few extra hoops to get their gun, and to follow some stricter rules in its use then I am willing to pay that price (I owned guns in the UK where that was the case) Until 2nd ammendment is repealled I will support the lawmakers who choose to interpret it in the most restrictive way possble. You are apparently so enamoured of easy gun-ownership that you seem completely blind to the overwhelming advantages of having a gun free society. Steve T
Right advantage... Sitting in my house with out a means to protect it so baseball bat wielding criminals have their will. I guess at that time we should ban bats & steak knivees too. Hecck try and defend yourself in the UK and you will be charged. You are powerless and the criminals are empowered. Dont forget you have that boxcutter on you at work! Oh the horror if the cops find it! Of course it iss easy to make the elaw abiding jump through hoops while the lawless continue on theeir easy ways. oppss did you forget that or just omit the fact that these laws & hoops always only hurt those that follow them? Is the fact that sportmen are a dying breed in the UK? It iss impossible to provide your own food through hunting these days? At the same time crime increases? Hhow long does 911 take to arrive if at all? Are they not nothing more the report takers? now the founding fathers stated in the federalist papers that the militia is the people. Well Regulated refers to something being in proper working order. Here firing a few 48 cal balls into a target at a specific distance. One would also think that since the creation of the welfare state we have been living in a time of tyrany. We are taxed to the extreme to give our wealth to others.
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Right advantage... Sitting in my house with out a means to protect it so baseball bat wielding criminals have their will. I guess at that time we should ban bats & steak knivees too. Hecck try and defend yourself in the UK and you will be charged. You are powerless and the criminals are empowered. Dont forget you have that boxcutter on you at work! Oh the horror if the cops find it! Of course it iss easy to make the elaw abiding jump through hoops while the lawless continue on theeir easy ways. oppss did you forget that or just omit the fact that these laws & hoops always only hurt those that follow them? Is the fact that sportmen are a dying breed in the UK? It iss impossible to provide your own food through hunting these days? At the same time crime increases? Hhow long does 911 take to arrive if at all? Are they not nothing more the report takers? now the founding fathers stated in the federalist papers that the militia is the people. Well Regulated refers to something being in proper working order. Here firing a few 48 cal balls into a target at a specific distance. One would also think that since the creation of the welfare state we have been living in a time of tyrany. We are taxed to the extreme to give our wealth to others.
L_u_r_k_e_r wrote: now the founding fathers stated in the federalist papers that the militia is the people. Well Regulated refers to something being in proper working order. Here firing a few 48 cal balls into a target at a specific distance. See ...you went from "A well regulated militia." to "Every Tom, Dick and Harry with no criminal record." without even trying. I think this country has more to fear from the gun nuts who believe themselves to be "a well regulated militia" than they have from good old fashioned criminals. Steve T -- modified at 20:47 Tuesday 4th October, 2005