Local credit union vs. a Multinational Bank
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So you are saying being poor automatically equals bad credit? When I was poor (working my way through college with a family), I had perfect credit because I didn't borrow money I couldn't pay back. My credit rating didn't drop until I went through a divorce and by then I was well beyond poor. You pay more in fees and rates when you have bad credit because you are a greater risk. Do credit card companies charge exorbitant rates? Do they practice predatory lending targeting those with bad credit? Yes, they do. But guess what? It's a voluntary transaction. You don't have to take those higher charges on credit cards or loan rates. Don't borrow the money. As for banks charging NSFs, that's both a cost recovery method and a punititve measure. If you regularly bounce checks, they are trying to stop you from doing that by charging you more. You can't behave in an irresponsible manner and then whine about the penalty. Jeff Martin My Blog
I understand why they treat people with bad credit with suspicion. But to treat a newcomer with no credit history just as if he had bad history sucks! It's basically treating you as guilty until you prove your innocence, which is a horrible, immoral, crappy, stupid, useless, evil concept! It also explains why I cannot buy anything online (since I don't have a card), why I don't own the cell phone I use (they ask for a credit card), why I had a hard time applying for an internet connection etc. I can't get a credit card as I don't have good credit and to get good credit I need to use a credit card. I have the option of a secured card (though for other Visa related reasons I can't take one till maybe next year) - but it sucks. You have to put a 1000 dollar deposit for a minimum 3 year period. Dead money basically! Really sucks!
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If you are in Canada and you are new here, none of them are good to you - damned credit history concept!!!!! :mad:
I think you'll find that you need a credit history everywhere. Or at least a history of savings. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
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I understand why they treat people with bad credit with suspicion. But to treat a newcomer with no credit history just as if he had bad history sucks! It's basically treating you as guilty until you prove your innocence, which is a horrible, immoral, crappy, stupid, useless, evil concept! It also explains why I cannot buy anything online (since I don't have a card), why I don't own the cell phone I use (they ask for a credit card), why I had a hard time applying for an internet connection etc. I can't get a credit card as I don't have good credit and to get good credit I need to use a credit card. I have the option of a secured card (though for other Visa related reasons I can't take one till maybe next year) - but it sucks. You have to put a 1000 dollar deposit for a minimum 3 year period. Dead money basically! Really sucks!
How about a checking account? They're just about free around here, and you get a debit card that you can use online. They were also the first to give me a CC when i was trying to build credit history.
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the credit history and credit rating schemes are how they keep people powerless in the system and keep the system happy and in control :suss:
"there is no spoon"
{biz stuff} {about me}Depends. If you use credit well, then you'll have a good history. Or, does it work differently over there ? Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
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the credit history and credit rating schemes are how they keep people powerless in the system and keep the system happy and in control :suss:
"there is no spoon"
{biz stuff} {about me} -
So you are saying being poor automatically equals bad credit? When I was poor (working my way through college with a family), I had perfect credit because I didn't borrow money I couldn't pay back. My credit rating didn't drop until I went through a divorce and by then I was well beyond poor. You pay more in fees and rates when you have bad credit because you are a greater risk. Do credit card companies charge exorbitant rates? Do they practice predatory lending targeting those with bad credit? Yes, they do. But guess what? It's a voluntary transaction. You don't have to take those higher charges on credit cards or loan rates. Don't borrow the money. As for banks charging NSFs, that's both a cost recovery method and a punititve measure. If you regularly bounce checks, they are trying to stop you from doing that by charging you more. You can't behave in an irresponsible manner and then whine about the penalty. Jeff Martin My Blog
Ah, no, I was not equating bad credit (e.g. "irresponsibility") with being poor; although those who have the former are generally the later, it doesn't work as well in the other direction.
Jeff Martin wrote:
You pay more in fees and rates when
Car insurance? Thankfully, I'm not in that boat any longer as I've paid back all my olds debts and behaved responsibly. Something about your post really pissed me off, though.
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... which is a better choice to go with ... in terms of both checking and savings account ?
Sounds like a cliche, but it all depends on the bank/credit union. I've used both over the years. Right now, I'm with a very good bank. Previously, I was with an equally good credit union. I've also had bad banks, though only so-so credit unions (though a local credit union is reputed to suck badly.) Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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I understand why they treat people with bad credit with suspicion. But to treat a newcomer with no credit history just as if he had bad history sucks! It's basically treating you as guilty until you prove your innocence, which is a horrible, immoral, crappy, stupid, useless, evil concept! It also explains why I cannot buy anything online (since I don't have a card), why I don't own the cell phone I use (they ask for a credit card), why I had a hard time applying for an internet connection etc. I can't get a credit card as I don't have good credit and to get good credit I need to use a credit card. I have the option of a secured card (though for other Visa related reasons I can't take one till maybe next year) - but it sucks. You have to put a 1000 dollar deposit for a minimum 3 year period. Dead money basically! Really sucks!
Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
I can't get a credit card as I don't have good credit and to get good credit I need to use a credit card.
That's surely not true ? How do people get their first card ? I'd say it's through having a reasonable employment history and a reasonable income/monthy expenses ratio. Having said that, I have a VISA debit card, I have no credit at all, but I can buy stuff online, I avoid fees ( paying from my bank account otherwise costs .40 a time ), and all the money I spend is my own. That's what I did in the US, I raided our home loan, put all the extra we'd paid into my savings, and when I got back, I moved what was left back into the home loan. And it feels good to know when I buy something, it's mine and not the banks. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
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So you are saying being poor automatically equals bad credit? When I was poor (working my way through college with a family), I had perfect credit because I didn't borrow money I couldn't pay back. My credit rating didn't drop until I went through a divorce and by then I was well beyond poor. You pay more in fees and rates when you have bad credit because you are a greater risk. Do credit card companies charge exorbitant rates? Do they practice predatory lending targeting those with bad credit? Yes, they do. But guess what? It's a voluntary transaction. You don't have to take those higher charges on credit cards or loan rates. Don't borrow the money. As for banks charging NSFs, that's both a cost recovery method and a punititve measure. If you regularly bounce checks, they are trying to stop you from doing that by charging you more. You can't behave in an irresponsible manner and then whine about the penalty. Jeff Martin My Blog
ahhhhhhhhhh no would that it were so simple and straight-forward and honest get the agreement u signed to get ur credit cards and hunt for the small paragraph written in total legalese that staes the credit card company can raise ur interest rate at any time for any reason to anything they want to ... and they do
"there is no spoon"
{biz stuff} {about me} -
ahhhhhhhhhh no would that it were so simple and straight-forward and honest get the agreement u signed to get ur credit cards and hunt for the small paragraph written in total legalese that staes the credit card company can raise ur interest rate at any time for any reason to anything they want to ... and they do
"there is no spoon"
{biz stuff} {about me}l a u r e n wrote:
get the agreement u signed to get ur credit cards and hunt for the small paragraph written in total legalese that staes the credit card company can raise ur interest rate at any time for any reason to anything they want to ... and they do
I gotta admit, I've never understood the hysteria around high credit card interest rates. I have two credit cards, and I don't even know what the rate on them are, because I use "The Man's" money for 30 days, then say "screw you" to him and write a cheque for the whole amount. People who accumulate and carry credit card debit frankly mystify me. If you're not spending the money on food (and none of the people I know who have credit card debt are into it for food) and you can't pay it off, take a course in budgeting. If I'm not going to be able to pay it all off due to something really unexpected, I transfer it over to the line of credit at 6%. You run a business l a u r e n, so you obviously know about the different debt products FIs offer and cash flow discipline, but for anyone else out there who doesn't: if you're getting into credit card trouble on discretionary spending, re-adjust your priorities. Share and enjoy. Sean
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... which is a better choice to go with ... in terms of both checking and savings account ?
Credit Union all the way. If you need ATMs just get an account at a bank like 5/3 for minimal use. That's what I do anyway.
Found on Bash.org [erno] hm. I've lost a machine.. literally _lost_. it responds to ping, it works completely, I just can't figure out where in my apartment it is.
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... which is a better choice to go with ... in terms of both checking and savings account ?
I am fond of my credit union. Pays interest for checking and savings, no minimum balance, no check fees, loan rates are usually better than the local banks, etc. Gary Kirkham Forever Forgiven and Alive in the Spirit He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliot Me blog, You read
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Ah, no, I was not equating bad credit (e.g. "irresponsibility") with being poor; although those who have the former are generally the later, it doesn't work as well in the other direction.
Jeff Martin wrote:
You pay more in fees and rates when
Car insurance? Thankfully, I'm not in that boat any longer as I've paid back all my olds debts and behaved responsibly. Something about your post really pissed me off, though.
krism42 wrote:
Car insurance?
I've found that they will wave those extra fees if you have them auto-draft your checking account. I missed the part where you said something about my post pissed you off. It was probably because I called you a whiner. Anyone who pulls out the tired "the rich vs the poor" argument is just whining. When the media talks about tax breaks and uses "the rich", they are talking about us. I would bet a large portion of U.S. CodeProject users fall into that category. Jeff Martin My Blog -- modified at 8:38 Friday 21st October, 2005
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ahhhhhhhhhh no would that it were so simple and straight-forward and honest get the agreement u signed to get ur credit cards and hunt for the small paragraph written in total legalese that staes the credit card company can raise ur interest rate at any time for any reason to anything they want to ... and they do
"there is no spoon"
{biz stuff} {about me}The same legalese that was there when you signed the agreement. And if you call them and tell them you are moving your balance to another card, they will usually return the rate back to where it was. I'm not saying that credit card companies are a wonderful bunch of caring humans. I can't stand most of them. I've been on the wrong side of those rate hikes for being a few days late. I'm still paying my way out of a big hole that was dug during my previous marriage. Even with my credit rating not so attractive, I still get pre-approved offers. The way I deal with all of the problems of having a bad credit rating is not borrowing money. Jeff Martin My Blog
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krism42 wrote:
Car insurance?
I've found that they will wave those extra fees if you have them auto-draft your checking account. I missed the part where you said something about my post pissed you off. It was probably because I called you a whiner. Anyone who pulls out the tired "the rich vs the poor" argument is just whining. When the media talks about tax breaks and uses "the rich", they are talking about us. I would bet a large portion of U.S. CodeProject users fall into that category. Jeff Martin My Blog -- modified at 8:38 Friday 21st October, 2005
I'm not actually talking about 'installment' or 'payment' fees; I'm talking about genuinely higher auto insurance rates for people with bad credit. I pay my premiums in full at the start of coverage. I observed that after I paid off my two credit cards, my policy went down by 200$. No other large changes occured during that period, e.g. no speeding tickets dropped off my record, I didn't have a birthday, etc. (These were six month policies. My bday is 11 Oct, occuring around the middle of the second six month policy.) Whiner: I don't know you, and you don't know me. I am not going to participate in personal attacks, nor am I going to waste any more of my time trying to convince you of my views. We have different ones, and there's nothing wrong with that.
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I think you'll find that you need a credit history everywhere. Or at least a history of savings. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
Christian Graus wrote:
I think you'll find that you need a credit history everywhere. Or at least a history of savings.
In the US and Canada, savings don't help much - you need to use a credit card or a loan to build up a credit repayment history. If you've never been in debt in your life and never bought anything on credit, then your credit history is deemed to be non-existent.
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How about a checking account? They're just about free around here, and you get a debit card that you can use online. They were also the first to give me a CC when i was trying to build credit history.
Shog9 wrote:
How about a checking account? They're just about free around here, and you get a debit card that you can use online.
Not in Canada - unlike in the US, where major bank debit cards double up as a Visa or a Mastercard, in Canada, none of the banks give a debit card that's also a Visa or a Mastercard. So while I have two checking accounts in 2 banks and thus different debit cards, neither of them can be used online to make a purchase :-(
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Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
I can't get a credit card as I don't have good credit and to get good credit I need to use a credit card.
That's surely not true ? How do people get their first card ? I'd say it's through having a reasonable employment history and a reasonable income/monthy expenses ratio. Having said that, I have a VISA debit card, I have no credit at all, but I can buy stuff online, I avoid fees ( paying from my bank account otherwise costs .40 a time ), and all the money I spend is my own. That's what I did in the US, I raided our home loan, put all the extra we'd paid into my savings, and when I got back, I moved what was left back into the home loan. And it feels good to know when I buy something, it's mine and not the banks. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
Christian Graus wrote:
Having said that, I have a VISA debit card,
None of the Canadian banks give Visa or Mastercard debit cards :-(
Christian Graus wrote:
That's surely not true ? How do people get their first card ?
People who grew up here usually get student cards when they are in college to build up credit. For new people, building credit is an absolute pain in the ass.
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Shog9 wrote:
How about a checking account? They're just about free around here, and you get a debit card that you can use online.
Not in Canada - unlike in the US, where major bank debit cards double up as a Visa or a Mastercard, in Canada, none of the banks give a debit card that's also a Visa or a Mastercard. So while I have two checking accounts in 2 banks and thus different debit cards, neither of them can be used online to make a purchase :-(
Try Etrade Bank[^] They refund ATM fees since they're not a bricks-and-mortar bank. I think they have debit/credit cards easily available. You could also try applying for a credit card with a low credit limit, like $250.00 bucks.
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Christian Graus wrote:
I think you'll find that you need a credit history everywhere. Or at least a history of savings.
In the US and Canada, savings don't help much - you need to use a credit card or a loan to build up a credit repayment history. If you've never been in debt in your life and never bought anything on credit, then your credit history is deemed to be non-existent.
When I was 20 I had ZERO credit history. I went to the bank, borrowed $500 bucks and paid it back over 2 or 3 months, just for the simple reason of building the credit history. I didn't need the money, I didn't spend the loan on anything. I just did it to build credit history. Yes I paid a little in interest, but it was the price I had to pay in order to get a credit history. Also, if you buy a car, they will almost always give you a loan on it. That gives you credit history. If you already have a car that you own, then you can use it as collateral for a small loan ($500) from the bank. Pay it back over 2 or three months, it will give you credit history.