Religion A Vs Religion B
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This thread started me thinking... ..what a waste of time. "My old book of fairytales is better than your old book of fairytales". "People who dont beleive that my old book of fairytales is the only right one are bad people". etc etc. Given that religion is based on Faith, a non-rational concept, how can you expect to have a rational discussion? Some peoples 'true colours' have really come out.
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This thread started me thinking... ..what a waste of time. "My old book of fairytales is better than your old book of fairytales". "People who dont beleive that my old book of fairytales is the only right one are bad people". etc etc. Given that religion is based on Faith, a non-rational concept, how can you expect to have a rational discussion? Some peoples 'true colours' have really come out.
It's amusing to watch the true believers try to justify the unjustifiable. Amusing and sad at the same time. Absolute faith corrupts as absolutely as absolute power Eric Hoffer All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. Edmund Burke
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This thread started me thinking... ..what a waste of time. "My old book of fairytales is better than your old book of fairytales". "People who dont beleive that my old book of fairytales is the only right one are bad people". etc etc. Given that religion is based on Faith, a non-rational concept, how can you expect to have a rational discussion? Some peoples 'true colours' have really come out.
As a Christian, I believe all Muslims will go to hell. As a human being, I don't think it's my job to remind them of that in a confronting way, or act as if it means I can look down on them, or anyone else. I think that the real problem is self righteousness on the part of some ( not pointing any fingers here ), and the desire to shore up ones own faith by attacking others. I don't see that as something Jesus would have done, and it's not something I would want to be doing. But I also understand that from the point of view of someone who does not have any religious belief, the whole thing looks doubly futile :-) It's sure a dumb thing to start wars over. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
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As a Christian, I believe all Muslims will go to hell. As a human being, I don't think it's my job to remind them of that in a confronting way, or act as if it means I can look down on them, or anyone else. I think that the real problem is self righteousness on the part of some ( not pointing any fingers here ), and the desire to shore up ones own faith by attacking others. I don't see that as something Jesus would have done, and it's not something I would want to be doing. But I also understand that from the point of view of someone who does not have any religious belief, the whole thing looks doubly futile :-) It's sure a dumb thing to start wars over. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
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Christian Graus wrote:
As a Christian, I believe all Muslims will go to hell
I am not a religious person but I like the old testiment a lot better. Why did they feel the need to intruduce eternal damnation as a motivation?
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This thread started me thinking... ..what a waste of time. "My old book of fairytales is better than your old book of fairytales". "People who dont beleive that my old book of fairytales is the only right one are bad people". etc etc. Given that religion is based on Faith, a non-rational concept, how can you expect to have a rational discussion? Some peoples 'true colours' have really come out.
Josh Gray wrote:
how can you expect to have a rational discussion?
It would be rational to acknowledge that only one religion is responsible for the bulk of the violence occuring on the planet at the moment. It is irrational to witness Islamic terrorism and immediately being pointing fingers at all religions in general. Until we hold the proponents of Islam repsonsible for their extremist elements, precisely as we do Christianity, rationality is a moot point. To not do so is nothing more than allowing the secularists to use Islamic terrorism to prmoote their own anti-religion agenda.
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Christian Graus wrote:
As a Christian, I believe all Muslims will go to hell
I am not a religious person but I like the old testiment a lot better. Why did they feel the need to intruduce eternal damnation as a motivation?
Well, 'going to hell' is perhaps a mental image that's removed from what I believe the Bible to say. Dantes Inferno has no place in the Bible, that's a religious idea. My point was that I believe I will live forever, and any Muslim by definition will not. And that's not really what I wanted to discuss, I wanted to discuss that in the context of my holding a view that could easily drive a hundred online arguments, I see no point in being rude or argumentative about it. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
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As a Christian, I believe all Muslims will go to hell. As a human being, I don't think it's my job to remind them of that in a confronting way, or act as if it means I can look down on them, or anyone else. I think that the real problem is self righteousness on the part of some ( not pointing any fingers here ), and the desire to shore up ones own faith by attacking others. I don't see that as something Jesus would have done, and it's not something I would want to be doing. But I also understand that from the point of view of someone who does not have any religious belief, the whole thing looks doubly futile :-) It's sure a dumb thing to start wars over. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
Christian Graus wrote:
As a Christian, I believe all Muslims will go to hell.
That nicely sums up the biggest issue I have with all the orgainzed religions I am familiar with: No matter how merciful the particular God is adverised to be, he has no mercy for those raised in a different belief, even if they were in all other respects model human beings. I find that so preposterous and fundamentally unfair, that I conclude all religions are wrong. This belief that all other faiths are flawed to the point of damnation is what leads to justifying any outrage in the name of one's religion, and is the cause of much of mankind's hatred of fellow men. Absolute faith corrupts as absolutely as absolute power Eric Hoffer All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. Edmund Burke
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It's amusing to watch the true believers try to justify the unjustifiable. Amusing and sad at the same time. Absolute faith corrupts as absolutely as absolute power Eric Hoffer All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. Edmund Burke
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Well, 'going to hell' is perhaps a mental image that's removed from what I believe the Bible to say. Dantes Inferno has no place in the Bible, that's a religious idea. My point was that I believe I will live forever, and any Muslim by definition will not. And that's not really what I wanted to discuss, I wanted to discuss that in the context of my holding a view that could easily drive a hundred online arguments, I see no point in being rude or argumentative about it. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
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Josh Gray wrote:
how can you expect to have a rational discussion?
It would be rational to acknowledge that only one religion is responsible for the bulk of the violence occuring on the planet at the moment. It is irrational to witness Islamic terrorism and immediately being pointing fingers at all religions in general. Until we hold the proponents of Islam repsonsible for their extremist elements, precisely as we do Christianity, rationality is a moot point. To not do so is nothing more than allowing the secularists to use Islamic terrorism to prmoote their own anti-religion agenda.
Wierd. I'm logged in, but my post was anonymous "Capitalism is the source of all true freedom." -- modified at 23:09 Sunday 23rd October, 2005
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As a Christian, I believe all Muslims will go to hell. As a human being, I don't think it's my job to remind them of that in a confronting way, or act as if it means I can look down on them, or anyone else. I think that the real problem is self righteousness on the part of some ( not pointing any fingers here ), and the desire to shore up ones own faith by attacking others. I don't see that as something Jesus would have done, and it's not something I would want to be doing. But I also understand that from the point of view of someone who does not have any religious belief, the whole thing looks doubly futile :-) It's sure a dumb thing to start wars over. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
Christian Graus wrote:
As a Christian, I believe all Muslims will go to hell.
As a Muslim, I believe that all Christians will go to hell. But at all the Muslims are reminding the others of what they believe in, doesn't matter if these others listen or not, Is that wrong ?.
Christian Graus wrote:
and the desire to shore up ones own faith by attacking others.
This is the best statment I've read in the forum today :).
Christian Graus wrote:
I don't see that as something Jesus would have done,
Good point, because, Jesus, and Mohammed are both from the GOD, and you believe what GOD told you by your Prophet.
"Praying." Is this only what I can do for him ?
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Christian Graus wrote:
As a Christian, I believe all Muslims will go to hell.
That nicely sums up the biggest issue I have with all the orgainzed religions I am familiar with: No matter how merciful the particular God is adverised to be, he has no mercy for those raised in a different belief, even if they were in all other respects model human beings. I find that so preposterous and fundamentally unfair, that I conclude all religions are wrong. This belief that all other faiths are flawed to the point of damnation is what leads to justifying any outrage in the name of one's religion, and is the cause of much of mankind's hatred of fellow men. Absolute faith corrupts as absolutely as absolute power Eric Hoffer All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. Edmund Burke
Rob Graham wrote:
No matter how merciful the particular God is adverised to be, he has no mercy for those raised in a different belief, even if they were in all other respects model human beings. I find that so preposterous and fundamentally unfair, that I conclude all religions are wrong.
Well, you're free to decide that. However, I think you've got the cart before the horse. Being 'raised in a religion' is irrelevant. People who go to church because their parents did, and don't think about it for themselves, are probably not headed anywhere great either. The point of Christianity to me is that God made us, and made us able to choose for ourselves to live forever. If you don't choose to live, is it God's fault that you die ? No.
Rob Graham wrote:
flawed to the point of damnation
No, that's not what I believe. I believe that by definition of following someone other than Jesus, a person can't possibly have accepted His offer of life. Because they don't choose to live, they will die. That they are not flawed as people is the point I wanted to make ( although I knew that point would be quickly lost )
Rob Graham wrote:
what leads to justifying any outrage in the name of one's religion, and is the cause of much of mankind's hatred of fellow men.
It's more true that leaders who want to start war use religion often to give the common man a reason to die needlessly, and to kill people who are no different to them. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
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Christian Graus wrote:
As a Christian, I believe all Muslims will go to hell.
As a Muslim, I believe that all Christians will go to hell. But at all the Muslims are reminding the others of what they believe in, doesn't matter if these others listen or not, Is that wrong ?.
Christian Graus wrote:
and the desire to shore up ones own faith by attacking others.
This is the best statment I've read in the forum today :).
Christian Graus wrote:
I don't see that as something Jesus would have done,
Good point, because, Jesus, and Mohammed are both from the GOD, and you believe what GOD told you by your Prophet.
"Praying." Is this only what I can do for him ?
LongHC wrote:
As a Muslim, I believe that all Christians will go to hell
By definition :-)
LongHC wrote:
Is that wrong ?.
I'm not sure, I can't work out what you were saying.
LongHC wrote:
Good point, because, Jesus, and Mohammed are both from the GOD, and you believe what GOD told you by your Prophet.
I plainly don't believe Mohammed was from God, in fact, I believe that Jesus warned against Mohammeds teachings. You can't follow Mohammed and believe in Jesus, any more than I can follow Jesus and believe Mohammed. What I meant was, Jesus didn't seek to attack people, He was quick to attack false ideas, but as quick to love the people who believed them. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
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As a Christian, I believe all Muslims will go to hell. As a human being, I don't think it's my job to remind them of that in a confronting way, or act as if it means I can look down on them, or anyone else. I think that the real problem is self righteousness on the part of some ( not pointing any fingers here ), and the desire to shore up ones own faith by attacking others. I don't see that as something Jesus would have done, and it's not something I would want to be doing. But I also understand that from the point of view of someone who does not have any religious belief, the whole thing looks doubly futile :-) It's sure a dumb thing to start wars over. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
Christian Graus wrote:
As a Christian, I believe all Muslims will go to hell.
and where will all christians go?in Casino? MyBlogs http://weblogs.com.pk/kadnan
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Christian Graus wrote:
As a Christian, I believe all Muslims will go to hell.
and where will all christians go?in Casino? MyBlogs http://weblogs.com.pk/kadnan
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
and where will all christians go?in Casino?
I've just been to Vegas, and it looked pretty much like hell to me. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
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Christian Graus wrote:
As a Christian, I believe all Muslims will go to hell.
That nicely sums up the biggest issue I have with all the orgainzed religions I am familiar with: No matter how merciful the particular God is adverised to be, he has no mercy for those raised in a different belief, even if they were in all other respects model human beings. I find that so preposterous and fundamentally unfair, that I conclude all religions are wrong. This belief that all other faiths are flawed to the point of damnation is what leads to justifying any outrage in the name of one's religion, and is the cause of much of mankind's hatred of fellow men. Absolute faith corrupts as absolutely as absolute power Eric Hoffer All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. Edmund Burke
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Wierd. I'm logged in, but my post was anonymous "Capitalism is the source of all true freedom." -- modified at 23:09 Sunday 23rd October, 2005
It's OK Stan, I still guessed it was probably you :P FWIW, I agree. It's wrong to blame all Muslims for terrorism, it's just as wrong to be scared to admit that on some level, Islam is tied to the problem, regardless of if that's fair or not. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
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There is no hell in Judism. If you do the right thing you go to heaven. If you dont its all over. I kinda like that
To be honest, that's pretty much how I read the NT also. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
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LongHC wrote:
As a Muslim, I believe that all Christians will go to hell
By definition :-)
LongHC wrote:
Is that wrong ?.
I'm not sure, I can't work out what you were saying.
LongHC wrote:
Good point, because, Jesus, and Mohammed are both from the GOD, and you believe what GOD told you by your Prophet.
I plainly don't believe Mohammed was from God, in fact, I believe that Jesus warned against Mohammeds teachings. You can't follow Mohammed and believe in Jesus, any more than I can follow Jesus and believe Mohammed. What I meant was, Jesus didn't seek to attack people, He was quick to attack false ideas, but as quick to love the people who believed them. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
Christian Graus wrote:
I plainly don't believe Mohammed was from God,
He is absolutely.
Christian Graus wrote:
I believe that Jesus warned against Mohammeds teachings.
He said that Mohammed will come, And they have to follow him.
Christian Graus wrote:
Jesus didn't seek to attack people,
Neither do Mohammed.
Christian Graus wrote:
He was quick to attack false ideas,
Also Mohammed did, but let me ask you something, if everyone here is saying that Jesus is right, and Mohammed is wrong, so... , How many FALSE thing the Chrisitians are doing now, comparing to how much the Muslims do ?
"Praying." Is this only what I can do for him ?