Religion A Vs Religion B
-
Then why is it so ambiguious? Well my original post said that arguing religion A vs religion B is pointless. Similarly arguing religion A vs no religion is pointless as your arguments are based on faith. We could go on for hours but at the end of the day "Each to there own".
Josh Gray wrote:
Then why is it so ambiguious?
Because a lot of the ideas we're raised with in the West are not what it says, ever. And in part because those ideas influenced the translations.
Josh Gray wrote:
Similarly arguing religion A vs no religion is pointless as your arguments are based on faith. We could go on for hours but at the end of the day "Each to there own".
Yes, I agree. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
-
But pointing out the wrongs of others in no way pardons Muslims for their wrongdoing, and serves to convince no one that Islam is not a violent faith. Absolute faith corrupts as absolutely as absolute power Eric Hoffer All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. Edmund Burke
Rob Graham wrote:
Islam is not a violent faith.
It's not.
Rob Graham wrote:
pointing out the wrongs of others
I am not pointing to the wrongs of others, I am just saying what I believe in, and you must know that it all started yesterday from the previous post, and this violence as you wrote wasn't like that, the police in Egypt (as might you don't know) can't let any one reach the curch. And at last I will reply what I wrote in another post, They were just objecting to the play that was offendong our religion.
"Praying." Is this only what I can do for him ?
-
:rose: As it happens, I do believe in the teachings of Jesus, I just happen to think he is more merciful and less exclusive than you do. Heaven has room for muslims, jews, hindus, bhuddists and many other good people, even atheists (perhaps to their diasppointment). Absolute faith corrupts as absolutely as absolute power Eric Hoffer All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. Edmund Burke
I'm afraid you don't believe what Jesus said then. It's easy to take the bits where Jesus fought for social justice, and loving one's neighbour, and neglect the bits where He said that no-one comes to the Father but by Him. Sadly, it's just as easy to ignore His fight for social justice, and focus on the fact that some do not know Him, forgetting that they can. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
-
LongHC wrote:
but you must know that I have faith in Christianity, but I follow Islam and Mohammed,
Then your faith is not in Christ, but in something Jesus never said. Sorry.
LongHC wrote:
so why did the Bible denied the Islam,
Because it's the words of Jesus, who denied all prophets who would follow Him as false.
LongHC wrote:
while the Islam ordeder us to believe in all Prophets ( Including Jesus ) ?,
As does Mormonism. I think mostly because it's a good way to start a religion - by claiming to base it on one that people already believe in.
LongHC wrote:
And that is what I was talking about, let everyone lives with his religion and faith, and let GOD give us what we've done
Yes, to a point. I'm happy to discuss these things, and I'm happy to remain friends with people who disagree with me. In the end, as you say, God's place is to judge, not mine.
LongHC wrote:
IF I created a play that offends and says rude and non-faithful words about your religion, and I said F*** Jesus, Wouldn't you be so angry, that you will march to place of that play and just say I refuse ?
Hell, no. I would ignore it, and feel sorry for you. Seriously, creating such a play is a surefire way to make money, precisely because of the people stupid enough to protest. It's my opinion that those who seek to shock have nothing intelligent to say, and that's it's own reward. It has no impact on my faith.
LongHC wrote:
I live in Egypt
Cool - I would totally love to visit there one day. I love history.
LongHC wrote:
They were offending the Islam so bad, besides we've never offended any religion in past, even the Jews.
I'm not sure what you're talking about here, local events ? I don't know. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
Christian Graus wrote:
Then your faith is not in Christ, but in something Jesus never said. Sorry.
You may ask :-D.
Christian Graus wrote:
As does Mormonism. I think mostly because it's a good way to start a religion - by claiming to base it on one that people already believe in.
so... , Who will start that religion ?, and for whom ?, and then he will say to pray to him not to the same GOD that Jesus follows, right ? :)
Christian Graus wrote:
Yes, to a point. I'm happy to discuss these things,
Discussing is good, offending is X| .
Christian Graus wrote:
I'm happy to remain friends with people who disagree with me.
And that is a very good thing that i am happy with :-D .
Christian Graus wrote:
Hell, no. I would ignore it,
That is what they have done here.
Christian Graus wrote:
creating such a play is a surefire way to make money, precisely because of the people stupid enough to protest. It's my opinion that those who seek to shock have nothing intelligent to say, and that's it's own reward. It has no impact on my faith.
That is the point that I hoped you got.
Christian Graus wrote:
I would totally love to visit there one day. I love history.
I have many friends in the Tourism-Guidence faculity ;), and I am sure they will welcome you, as much as I do :).
Christian Graus wrote:
I'm not sure what you're talking about here, local events ? I don't know.
Yes local event, but its the event that the first thread contains it : Islam is such a peaceful religion. And that is the reason of all this writing At all I am really happy to talk with open-minded guys like you. I really enjoyed our conversation.:cool:
"Praying." Is this only what I can do for him ?
-
Christian Graus wrote:
I've just been to Vegas, and it looked pretty much like hell to me.
get used to of it dude,you have to lead a long life in environment like that MyBlogs http://weblogs.com.pk/kadnan
What a stupid conversation. If you really think he is going to hell why are you happy about it? "You're going to hell" "No you are" "No you are" "No you are" "No you are" "No you are" "No you are" "No you are" "No you are" "No you are" "No you are" "No you are" "No you are" "No you are" "No you are" "No you are" "No you are" "No you are" "No you are" "No you are" "No you are" "No you are" "No you are" "No you are" "No you are"
-
Rob Graham wrote:
No matter how merciful the particular God is adverised to be, he has no mercy for those raised in a different belief, even if they were in all other respects model human beings. I find that so preposterous and fundamentally unfair, that I conclude all religions are wrong.
Well, you're free to decide that. However, I think you've got the cart before the horse. Being 'raised in a religion' is irrelevant. People who go to church because their parents did, and don't think about it for themselves, are probably not headed anywhere great either. The point of Christianity to me is that God made us, and made us able to choose for ourselves to live forever. If you don't choose to live, is it God's fault that you die ? No.
Rob Graham wrote:
flawed to the point of damnation
No, that's not what I believe. I believe that by definition of following someone other than Jesus, a person can't possibly have accepted His offer of life. Because they don't choose to live, they will die. That they are not flawed as people is the point I wanted to make ( although I knew that point would be quickly lost )
Rob Graham wrote:
what leads to justifying any outrage in the name of one's religion, and is the cause of much of mankind's hatred of fellow men.
It's more true that leaders who want to start war use religion often to give the common man a reason to die needlessly, and to kill people who are no different to them. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
What about people who lived in the jungle all their lives? Are these people destined for hell because they've never heard about Jesus? Do you belive in life on other planets? Do you believe they are going to hell? If you assume that Jesus came to them in another form, then why couldn't he have come to us as Mohammed or anyone else here on Earth for that matter? Any way you look at it, there are over 5 billion people going to hell for not following any other religion. That's assuming that the 1.2 Billion Christians are all going to heaven. However, as you correctly pointed out, not every person in any religion follows their religion to the tee. Therefore, a lot less people are going to heaven, if any. Personally, I'm looking forward to oblivion. I can't imagine living eternally as either a finite-thinking-living-being or as an infinite-knowledge-supreme-being, which would be an insult to God. "If only one person knows the truth, it is still the truth." - Mahatma Gandhi Web - Blog - RSS - Math
-
Rob Graham wrote:
Does God or Jesus bar them immortality on the grounds of accidental ignorance? Even if they lived exemplary lives?
No, the Bible actually says that such people will in fact be judged according to the sort of life they lead, not knowing about the Gospel. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
Doesn't that contradict the fact where you said Muslims cannot go to heaven? What about all non-Christians who live honorable lives? Anyone who gets judged by the life they lead means that they CAN follow any religion they want, as long as it is a noble path. "If only one person knows the truth, it is still the truth." - Mahatma Gandhi Web - Blog - RSS - Math
-
Rob Graham wrote:
Islam is not a violent faith.
It's not.
Rob Graham wrote:
pointing out the wrongs of others
I am not pointing to the wrongs of others, I am just saying what I believe in, and you must know that it all started yesterday from the previous post, and this violence as you wrote wasn't like that, the police in Egypt (as might you don't know) can't let any one reach the curch. And at last I will reply what I wrote in another post, They were just objecting to the play that was offendong our religion.
"Praying." Is this only what I can do for him ?
You sir, are morally bankrupt. Absolute faith corrupts as absolutely as absolute power Eric Hoffer All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. Edmund Burke
-
This thread started me thinking... ..what a waste of time. "My old book of fairytales is better than your old book of fairytales". "People who dont beleive that my old book of fairytales is the only right one are bad people". etc etc. Given that religion is based on Faith, a non-rational concept, how can you expect to have a rational discussion? Some peoples 'true colours' have really come out.
Having read most of this thread, I'm convinced that The Great Quantum Mechanic is going to get severely pissed about having way too many of His electrons severely inconvenienced blasting this drivel around the internet that He's going to invoke the exclusion principle on all the religious zealots. :laugh:;P At any given instant there are considerably more assholes than mouths in the universe. -- modified at 21:56 Monday 24th October, 2005
-
What about people who lived in the jungle all their lives? Are these people destined for hell because they've never heard about Jesus? Do you belive in life on other planets? Do you believe they are going to hell? If you assume that Jesus came to them in another form, then why couldn't he have come to us as Mohammed or anyone else here on Earth for that matter? Any way you look at it, there are over 5 billion people going to hell for not following any other religion. That's assuming that the 1.2 Billion Christians are all going to heaven. However, as you correctly pointed out, not every person in any religion follows their religion to the tee. Therefore, a lot less people are going to heaven, if any. Personally, I'm looking forward to oblivion. I can't imagine living eternally as either a finite-thinking-living-being or as an infinite-knowledge-supreme-being, which would be an insult to God. "If only one person knows the truth, it is still the truth." - Mahatma Gandhi Web - Blog - RSS - Math
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
What about people who lived in the jungle all their lives? Are these people destined for hell because they've never heard about Jesus?
As I said, the Bible says such people are judged on their works.
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
Do you belive in life on other planets?
No.
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
Do you believe they are going to hell?
If there is life on other planets, I'm sure He's taken care of them.
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
If you assume that Jesus came to them in another form, then why couldn't he have come to us as Mohammed or anyone else here on Earth for that matter?
Because He'd already come, and because when Jesus came, He did the will of the Father. Mohammed, plainly did not.
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
Therefore, a lot less people are going to heaven, if any.
The Bible says it's a narrow road, and there are few who find it. So, I guess you're right. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
-
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
What about people who lived in the jungle all their lives? Are these people destined for hell because they've never heard about Jesus?
As I said, the Bible says such people are judged on their works.
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
Do you belive in life on other planets?
No.
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
Do you believe they are going to hell?
If there is life on other planets, I'm sure He's taken care of them.
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
If you assume that Jesus came to them in another form, then why couldn't he have come to us as Mohammed or anyone else here on Earth for that matter?
Because He'd already come, and because when Jesus came, He did the will of the Father. Mohammed, plainly did not.
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
Therefore, a lot less people are going to heaven, if any.
The Bible says it's a narrow road, and there are few who find it. So, I guess you're right. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
-
Rob Graham wrote:
Does God or Jesus bar them immortality on the grounds of accidental ignorance? Even if they lived exemplary lives?
No, the Bible actually says that such people will in fact be judged according to the sort of life they lead, not knowing about the Gospel. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
Christian Graus wrote:
the Bible actually says that such people will in fact be judged according to the sort of life they lead, not knowing about the Gospel.
I guess that with modern global travel and communication no one has much of an excuse nowadays but if your assertion is true then the early Christian missionaries were really just condemning thousands of otherwise perfectly happy and reasonable people to go hell in denial rather than to go to heaven in ignorance. Steve T
-
Gosh, how many times have I said this ? Any person who has not been in a position to hear about Jesus is judged on works alone. It says so in Revelation. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
-
Christian Graus wrote:
the Bible actually says that such people will in fact be judged according to the sort of life they lead, not knowing about the Gospel.
I guess that with modern global travel and communication no one has much of an excuse nowadays but if your assertion is true then the early Christian missionaries were really just condemning thousands of otherwise perfectly happy and reasonable people to go hell in denial rather than to go to heaven in ignorance. Steve T
FlyingTinman wrote:
just condemning thousands of otherwise perfectly happy and reasonable people
Perhaps, but life with Jesus is better than life without, which was their message. It's far easier to make the grade as a Christian than not. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
-
FlyingTinman wrote:
just condemning thousands of otherwise perfectly happy and reasonable people
Perhaps, but life with Jesus is better than life without, which was their message. It's far easier to make the grade as a Christian than not. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
Christianity is just one model for leading a "good" life. By no means the best. Steve T
-
Christianity is just one model for leading a "good" life. By no means the best. Steve T
FlyingTinman wrote:
Christianity is just one model for leading a "good" life.
I agree. Plenty of non-Christians are 'good people'.
FlyingTinman wrote:
By no means the best.
I disagree totally, obviously. What gives Christianity the edge IMO is the power of God to transform people, something no other approach offers. Of course, that doesn't mean that Christians are better than other people, just that the ones who are serious about it don't have to work as hard at it :-) Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
-
Gosh, how many times have I said this ? Any person who has not been in a position to hear about Jesus is judged on works alone. It says so in Revelation. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
Christian Graus wrote:
Gosh, how many times have I said this ? Any person who has not been in a position to hear about Jesus is judged on works alone. It says so in Revelation.
Then how does this go with your earlier statement? "As a Christian, I believe all Muslims will go to hell."
-
FlyingTinman wrote:
just condemning thousands of otherwise perfectly happy and reasonable people
Perhaps, but life with Jesus is better than life without, which was their message. It's far easier to make the grade as a Christian than not. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
Christian Graus wrote:
It's far easier to make the grade as a Christian than not.
From my experience Christianity make people "bad" people "good" with about the same success rate as dieting makes fat people thin, except there's no forgiveness available for that extra slice of pizza. Steve T
-
Christian Graus wrote:
Gosh, how many times have I said this ? Any person who has not been in a position to hear about Jesus is judged on works alone. It says so in Revelation.
Then how does this go with your earlier statement? "As a Christian, I believe all Muslims will go to hell."
Tim Craig wrote:
Then how does this go with your earlier statement? "As a Christian, I believe all Muslims will go to hell."
Because you can't be a Muslim without having access to the Bible, surely ? Given that Muslims (falsely) believe that Mohammed followed on from Jesus ? If someone, somewhere has a Quran and no access to the Bible, the Internet, or any contact with Christians, so that they somehow call themselves a Muslim without ever knowing about Jesus, then they will be judged by their works. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
-
Christian Graus wrote:
It's far easier to make the grade as a Christian than not.
From my experience Christianity make people "bad" people "good" with about the same success rate as dieting makes fat people thin, except there's no forgiveness available for that extra slice of pizza. Steve T
I have no argument. Most people who claim to be Christians, apply the name to themselves because they heard it growing up. My experience of people who follow Jesus is the exact opposite though. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++