Why buy American at all ?
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Pete Madden wrote:
...fact that they are far less reliable...
The "American" cars were criticized (and rightly so) in the 1980's and early 90's for producing inferior vehicles. However, recent models compare favorably with foreign ones. For example, the Dodge Grand Caravan is often considered the top in the line of minivans by experts though it costs considerably ($10,000) less than its Honda and Toyota counterpart. So, why buy American? Because it could save you a ton of money without losing much (if any) in quality.
Umm...experts? I guess a minivan is a bit of a different story since it's very North American concept like pickup trucks, but accepting that's the case for a moment (and I really don't think it is) it's far from true for passenger cars.
"Hello, hello, what's all this shouting, we'll have no trouble here! This is a Local Shop for Local People, there's nothing for you here!" -Edward Tattsyrup
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Carl, Well said ... it's not that I don't want to buy American cars but it's just that after getting the facts it would be stupid to go for an American car today.
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A Mini? ... for an American? ... have u seen our sizes lately? ;)
My brother has a Mini Cooper S.... and it's just so fun to drive!! :cool: But not precisely the most economical car in the market... -- LuisR
Luis Alonso Ramos Intelectix - Chihuahua, Mexico Not much here: My CP Blog!
The amount of sleep the average person needs is five more minutes. -- Vikram A Punathambekar, Aug. 11, 2005
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Umm...experts? I guess a minivan is a bit of a different story since it's very North American concept like pickup trucks, but accepting that's the case for a moment (and I really don't think it is) it's far from true for passenger cars.
"Hello, hello, what's all this shouting, we'll have no trouble here! This is a Local Shop for Local People, there's nothing for you here!" -Edward Tattsyrup
I couldn't find the quote that I had seen previously when searching for a new minivan, so here's the best I can do. From Car & Driver concerning the 2005 Dodge Grand Caravan, "Smooth, comfy, and priced right, the Caravan has always been a contender for best minivan, even more so now." I do agree that this does not necessarily mean that "American" passenger cars are as good as foreign ones. However, I believe that even for passenger cars, the bias against "American" vehicles is based more on reputation than reality (just as the early Honda's were criticized for being cheap and not "real" cars, but later proved their worth).
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I am talking about automobiles here. I was planning on buying a Japanese one and a colleague at my office was lecturing me on how I should go for GM/Ford/Chrylser makes only. Now why should I? The whole point of "Buy American" was 1. To show that we trusted our companies, their brilliant engineers and trained workers 2. To create more jobs in the auto industry 3. Patriotism But now that all our companies have moved their work offshore and almost nothing is being manufactured or assembled here why the heck should I buy an American car? Not to mention the fact that they are far less reliable and are mostly gas guzzlers. There just doesn't seem to be an "American" car anymore. Most parts are imported or parts are assembled elsewhere. As far as I know except for a few Japanese makes (Honda, Toyota and Nissan) and BMW there aren't any carmakers that can associate themselves with a country...thanks to Ford/GM and Chrysler.
Pete Madden wrote:
There just doesn't seem to be an "American" car anymore. Most parts are imported or parts are assembled elsewhere.
Even though that is true when I shopped for a suv I refused to look at any imports at all mostly for #3. John
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Exactly. I read somewhere that GM has to give about $2000 per car just for employee benefits. That means if you pay $10k for your car, you get a $8k car. I'd rather get a $10k car if I pay $10k.
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Pete Madden wrote:
There just doesn't seem to be an "American" car anymore. Most parts are imported or parts are assembled elsewhere.
Even though that is true when I shopped for a suv I refused to look at any imports at all mostly for #3. John
Wow! Nice to see at least one still alive ;) Rocky <>< Latest Post: Time for change! Blog: www.RockyMoore.com/TheCoder/[^]
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I am talking about automobiles here. I was planning on buying a Japanese one and a colleague at my office was lecturing me on how I should go for GM/Ford/Chrylser makes only. Now why should I? The whole point of "Buy American" was 1. To show that we trusted our companies, their brilliant engineers and trained workers 2. To create more jobs in the auto industry 3. Patriotism But now that all our companies have moved their work offshore and almost nothing is being manufactured or assembled here why the heck should I buy an American car? Not to mention the fact that they are far less reliable and are mostly gas guzzlers. There just doesn't seem to be an "American" car anymore. Most parts are imported or parts are assembled elsewhere. As far as I know except for a few Japanese makes (Honda, Toyota and Nissan) and BMW there aren't any carmakers that can associate themselves with a country...thanks to Ford/GM and Chrysler.
Slighty off topic: GM/Ford/Chrysler just about blew their chance on hybrid vehicles. They're getting in on the game late. Ford has started producing hybrid vehicles using 1st generation technology bought from Toyota. Meanwhile, Toyota's hybrids are already using 3rd generation technology. I'll never buy an American car just for the sake of buying American. I'll buy the best car for my money. Right now that seems to be Toyota. I haven't owned an American auto in over 15 years. In my opinion, American auto companies have always been slow to respond and have trouble seeing looming trends. The current gas prices are going to be a huge boon for fuel efficient autos. Looks like another Japanese boom in auto sales is on the way. (Repeat of the 70's oil crisis?) -Sean ---- Shag a Lizard
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This is the 21st century last time I looked, there are few products that are exclusively made in any particular country. I would be hard pressed in my home in Canada to find many products that didn't say "made in china" somewhere on them. None of those carmakers you mentioned actually exclusively do business in their own country of origin. It's your hard earned cash and in a true capitalist system it's not only your right, but some would say your duty to spend it as wisely as possible. That's just common sense. I suspect if you wait about 10 years you will get a comparable quality car made by GM or Ford or Chrysler, they just can't afford to keep going down the path their going. People are starting to accept the fact that the "emporer has no clothes".
"Hello, hello, what's all this shouting, we'll have no trouble here! This is a Local Shop for Local People, there's nothing for you here!" -Edward Tattsyrup
John Cardinal wrote:
People are starting to accept the fact that the "emporer has no clothes".
You must not live in the rural midwest. Them's some good ole boys. I knew someone once who would not buy the Mitsubishi GT 3000 because it was a Japanese auto. He went out and bought the Dodge RT Turbo instead. I tried to explain to him that both autos were built on the same assembly line in the same plant in Japan. I even showed him that his VIN started with J. He never was able to grasp that concept. -Sean ---- Shag a Lizard
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but every car company has to have employee benefits so you will never get a $10k for $10k -- modified at 17:56 Friday 28th October, 2005
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Pete Madden wrote:
...fact that they are far less reliable...
The "American" cars were criticized (and rightly so) in the 1980's and early 90's for producing inferior vehicles. However, recent models compare favorably with foreign ones. For example, the Dodge Grand Caravan is often considered the top in the line of minivans by experts though it costs considerably ($10,000) less than its Honda and Toyota counterpart. So, why buy American? Because it could save you a ton of money without losing much (if any) in quality.
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I am talking about automobiles here. I was planning on buying a Japanese one and a colleague at my office was lecturing me on how I should go for GM/Ford/Chrylser makes only. Now why should I? The whole point of "Buy American" was 1. To show that we trusted our companies, their brilliant engineers and trained workers 2. To create more jobs in the auto industry 3. Patriotism But now that all our companies have moved their work offshore and almost nothing is being manufactured or assembled here why the heck should I buy an American car? Not to mention the fact that they are far less reliable and are mostly gas guzzlers. There just doesn't seem to be an "American" car anymore. Most parts are imported or parts are assembled elsewhere. As far as I know except for a few Japanese makes (Honda, Toyota and Nissan) and BMW there aren't any carmakers that can associate themselves with a country...thanks to Ford/GM and Chrysler.
Don't know. I love my Toyota Tacoma, though. :) Jon Sagara As you may presently yourself be fully made aware of, my grammar sucks. Sagara.org | Blog | My Articles
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Get one of those new-fangled Toyota hybrids... And why on earth would anyone vote that post a "1"? ------- sig starts "I've heard some drivers saying, 'We're going too fast here...'. If you're not here to race, go the hell home - don't come here and grumble about going too fast. Why don't you tie a kerosene rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -- modified at 16:19 Friday 28th October, 2005
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Get one of those new-fangled Toyota
So you are willing to buy a foreign car but don't like "foreigners" (your word) writing programs? Can you explain the discrepancy in your thinking? :rose:
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Personally, I don't base my decisions on "patriotism", I base it on what's best for me. Why would I pay more and get less quality if I can pay less and get better bang for my buck? Patriotism isn't a good reason for me. Of course, if 2 products are priced about the same and their quality is also about the same, I'll most likely go the the American product. Take GM for example. Their only "competitive" advantage is the fact that they are American and expect American people to buy their product. GM quality just stinks right now. I'm not buying from GM again until they get their act together, that's a sure thing. So buy what's best for you. I sure won't complain if it's a japanese product. (I'll probably get very low ratings for this post, who cares :laugh:)
Carl Mercier wrote:
GM quality just stinks right now.
I had a Chevrolet Caprice Classic by GM. For 14 years the car never needed a tune-up but still passed California's emissions test -- not by a whisker but by a mile! I took it from sea level (San Jose, CA) to one mile up in the air (Denver, CO). No problem. Went to the top of Rocky Mountain National Park (12,000' elevation) and still no problem. The poor car died of a broken heart when I didn't drive it for 6 months and instead used the company car (Infiniti Q45)! Except for that Infiniti, I always owned and drove American built cars -- even abroad.
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Carl Mercier wrote:
GM quality just stinks right now.
I had a Chevrolet Caprice Classic by GM. For 14 years the car never needed a tune-up but still passed California's emissions test -- not by a whisker but by a mile! I took it from sea level (San Jose, CA) to one mile up in the air (Denver, CO). No problem. Went to the top of Rocky Mountain National Park (12,000' elevation) and still no problem. The poor car died of a broken heart when I didn't drive it for 6 months and instead used the company car (Infiniti Q45)! Except for that Infiniti, I always owned and drove American built cars -- even abroad.
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A Mini? ... for an American? ... have u seen our sizes lately? ;)
Pete Madden wrote:
A Mini? ... for an American? ... have u seen our sizes lately?
I test-drove (comfortably) a Honda Insight while I was car shopping two years ago. If I can fit in that car, I am sure I can fit in a mini. ;P _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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John Cardinal wrote:
People are starting to accept the fact that the "emporer has no clothes".
You must not live in the rural midwest. Them's some good ole boys. I knew someone once who would not buy the Mitsubishi GT 3000 because it was a Japanese auto. He went out and bought the Dodge RT Turbo instead. I tried to explain to him that both autos were built on the same assembly line in the same plant in Japan. I even showed him that his VIN started with J. He never was able to grasp that concept. -Sean ---- Shag a Lizard
Sean Cundiff wrote:
He never was able to grasp that concept.
Most people don't. They believe what they wanted to believe before you showed them otherwise. Because they never wanted to see what you showed them. _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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I am talking about automobiles here. I was planning on buying a Japanese one and a colleague at my office was lecturing me on how I should go for GM/Ford/Chrylser makes only. Now why should I? The whole point of "Buy American" was 1. To show that we trusted our companies, their brilliant engineers and trained workers 2. To create more jobs in the auto industry 3. Patriotism But now that all our companies have moved their work offshore and almost nothing is being manufactured or assembled here why the heck should I buy an American car? Not to mention the fact that they are far less reliable and are mostly gas guzzlers. There just doesn't seem to be an "American" car anymore. Most parts are imported or parts are assembled elsewhere. As far as I know except for a few Japanese makes (Honda, Toyota and Nissan) and BMW there aren't any carmakers that can associate themselves with a country...thanks to Ford/GM and Chrysler.
Volvo :) Great Great Car... I am saving for one.
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Umm... Toyota assembles cars in the US. They have factories in Indiana to assemble some of their vehicles. I agree though, US cars are assembled poorly when compared to others. Sad really and hard to figure out why that is so. Sometimes I think we've just gotten lazy with all the success we may have had long ago:sigh: ------------------------------------- Do not do what has already been done.
