Will the browser become the new OS?
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From here-[^] Microsoft Corp. has recently faced criticism that its model, which still relies mostly on delivering software in traditional packaging, could grow antiquated. The concern is that, as more companies offer online services for everything from word processing to storing photos, there will be less of a need for Microsoft's lucrative Windows operating system and Office business software. If this trend has any real substance to it (which I personally feel it does not, except in limited applications) it strike me that the only thing the user is going to need on his machine is a browser and possibly (but maybe not) some plug-in capability. Something like that could be delivered in firmware. Is the machine of the future going to essentially be a browser with an Internet connection, where local software might be relegated simply to A/V rendering? In some ways, this would be a lovely, simple environment to work in. I'm sure it will be fraught with it's own technology headaches though. Are we at edge of a major paradigm shift in information presentation and management? Or have we already over the edge but don't know it? Marc VS2005 Tips & Tricks -- contributions welcome! -- modified at 12:17 Wednesday 9th November, 2005
It's not the first time people talk about that. In the middle/late 90' it was all about ASP (Application Service Providers) and it did not take off, then it was all about thin clients, did not take of, and now it's the ASP thing again. Nope, people want to be able to print, copy photos from the digicam, rip music to the mp3-player... Oh, and lets not forget games, that's a huge industry... So I don't see it happen in the consumer world, but maybe in the corporate world where most users don't need much more than a word processor and a spreadsheet... - Anders
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From here-[^] Microsoft Corp. has recently faced criticism that its model, which still relies mostly on delivering software in traditional packaging, could grow antiquated. The concern is that, as more companies offer online services for everything from word processing to storing photos, there will be less of a need for Microsoft's lucrative Windows operating system and Office business software. If this trend has any real substance to it (which I personally feel it does not, except in limited applications) it strike me that the only thing the user is going to need on his machine is a browser and possibly (but maybe not) some plug-in capability. Something like that could be delivered in firmware. Is the machine of the future going to essentially be a browser with an Internet connection, where local software might be relegated simply to A/V rendering? In some ways, this would be a lovely, simple environment to work in. I'm sure it will be fraught with it's own technology headaches though. Are we at edge of a major paradigm shift in information presentation and management? Or have we already over the edge but don't know it? Marc VS2005 Tips & Tricks -- contributions welcome! -- modified at 12:17 Wednesday 9th November, 2005
The gaming industry is already moving this way with downloadable games through services such as Steam(Half-life 2, complete crap but anyway). The idea is that you download the software and don't have to mess around with CDs and such. The computer still needs the hardware to run the program and it is still installed, you just get the software from the web. I see this as being the first step. Soon the game itself will be hosted on a server much like the games on Yahoo! Games where people come in and out and play them. You still need your machine resources to run the app but the download is minimal. If it's already working for Flickr, Blogspot, etc. why not work for anything else. People who don't have blazing fast internet will still need their stand alone OS which MS will happily provide:-D but those of us who HAVE blazing fast speed can live on the cutting edge. I think it's possible. Happen next year? No. But someday. Who knows, maybe our kids will write the first online OS:-D ------------------------------------- Do not do what has already been done. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.. but it ROCKS absolutely, too.
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It's not the first time people talk about that. In the middle/late 90' it was all about ASP (Application Service Providers) and it did not take off, then it was all about thin clients, did not take of, and now it's the ASP thing again. Nope, people want to be able to print, copy photos from the digicam, rip music to the mp3-player... Oh, and lets not forget games, that's a huge industry... So I don't see it happen in the consumer world, but maybe in the corporate world where most users don't need much more than a word processor and a spreadsheet... - Anders
>maybe in the corporate world DEFINITELY in the corporate world. We supply large Unix based systems that require a special client application to be installed. This client uses a private TCP protocol to display rich forms that use Windows controls, plus some custom controls of our own. Basically, the client application is a glorified terminal emulator. Now, without exception, every new prospect we have asks if we do a "browser client". The people in charge of these systems (we are talking 10,000+ users in some cases) do not want to have to install another Windows application on all these boxes. It is a no-brainer, especially now that broadband connections are becoming the norm. From my POV, the browser is indeed fast becoming the application. And, I have to say, that with good CSS/AJAX, you can create something that looks great, feels like a "real" app, and most importantly, executes fast enough. I think that for the corporate world, web applications are the future.
The Rob Blog
Google Talk: robert.caldecott -
From here-[^] Microsoft Corp. has recently faced criticism that its model, which still relies mostly on delivering software in traditional packaging, could grow antiquated. The concern is that, as more companies offer online services for everything from word processing to storing photos, there will be less of a need for Microsoft's lucrative Windows operating system and Office business software. If this trend has any real substance to it (which I personally feel it does not, except in limited applications) it strike me that the only thing the user is going to need on his machine is a browser and possibly (but maybe not) some plug-in capability. Something like that could be delivered in firmware. Is the machine of the future going to essentially be a browser with an Internet connection, where local software might be relegated simply to A/V rendering? In some ways, this would be a lovely, simple environment to work in. I'm sure it will be fraught with it's own technology headaches though. Are we at edge of a major paradigm shift in information presentation and management? Or have we already over the edge but don't know it? Marc VS2005 Tips & Tricks -- contributions welcome! -- modified at 12:17 Wednesday 9th November, 2005
I think a browser only PC would be a great idea in a few real life applications. Places such as libraries, schools, cafes, etc, would welcome this sort of PC as long it was a cheaper solution. I look at most of my friends and family and I see people who use there computer for online banking, email, and browsing. Guess, what? That's all they do with their $500 computer. Places like I mentioned above do not need any fancy hardware that can do anything we as programmers want to do with our boxes. Why not offer a browser only PC that cost maybe $100 when all the user wants do is surf the net or send/receive email? Brett A. Whittington Application Developer
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Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
more than half of the online world is on sub-64 Kbps lines.
Exactly. That's one of my major arguments against this concept taking off. Others include security, trusting a third party to be online 365/24/7, trusting a third party to manage document backups, constant-on connectivity, and third party server performance, to mention a few. Marc VS2005 Tips & Tricks -- contributions welcome!
My company offers ASP hosting - and it is proving a VERY popular service. Proof that people DO trust 3rd parties to manage the system, connections, ensure we have backup generators, etc. Obviously there are penalty clauses in the contracts, so, if we screw up, we have to cough up - but it means that many of our customers can do away with IT depts. and let us worry about hosting their systems. I think the browser will become the new O/S for many corporates and individuals. I think this is a interesting time for the industry, and I am currently learning web technologies, and though it can be a frustrating experience (to say the least), I am excited about being a programmer again. :)
The Rob Blog
Google Talk: robert.caldecott -
It's not the first time people talk about that. In the middle/late 90' it was all about ASP (Application Service Providers) and it did not take off, then it was all about thin clients, did not take of, and now it's the ASP thing again. Nope, people want to be able to print, copy photos from the digicam, rip music to the mp3-player... Oh, and lets not forget games, that's a huge industry... So I don't see it happen in the consumer world, but maybe in the corporate world where most users don't need much more than a word processor and a spreadsheet... - Anders
Exactly. Anyone remember when all of the product designers/managers thought that everything should run from the browser? When "web app" meant "ran in a browser"? We all took a nice quantum leap backwards back to the days of 3270 (form-based) terminals! Dunno about you, but a native GUI application on my desktop tends to run much faster than any browser-based app. As far as corporate - imaging using a browser based word processor (no, running Word embedded is not the same! :)). Have any of you wrote a post on here and had a server/network error after you hit [Post Message]? Not fun to lose everything you just wrote, is it? Now imagine having that happen with a larger document... Peace! -=- James
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>maybe in the corporate world DEFINITELY in the corporate world. We supply large Unix based systems that require a special client application to be installed. This client uses a private TCP protocol to display rich forms that use Windows controls, plus some custom controls of our own. Basically, the client application is a glorified terminal emulator. Now, without exception, every new prospect we have asks if we do a "browser client". The people in charge of these systems (we are talking 10,000+ users in some cases) do not want to have to install another Windows application on all these boxes. It is a no-brainer, especially now that broadband connections are becoming the norm. From my POV, the browser is indeed fast becoming the application. And, I have to say, that with good CSS/AJAX, you can create something that looks great, feels like a "real" app, and most importantly, executes fast enough. I think that for the corporate world, web applications are the future.
The Rob Blog
Google Talk: robert.caldecottUnless you're hosting those web applications in-house on a corporate web server, I don't think you want to bet your company's productivity on the internet. Last month, some nitwit next to our office building cut off our T1 connection while digging up a new construction site. It took our incompetent phone company two whole days to get us back up and going. If we had the web model, everyone in our company would be off work for two whole days. Hmmm...may not have been a bad thing. ;P I just don't think it's reliable enough for business environments either.
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From here-[^] Microsoft Corp. has recently faced criticism that its model, which still relies mostly on delivering software in traditional packaging, could grow antiquated. The concern is that, as more companies offer online services for everything from word processing to storing photos, there will be less of a need for Microsoft's lucrative Windows operating system and Office business software. If this trend has any real substance to it (which I personally feel it does not, except in limited applications) it strike me that the only thing the user is going to need on his machine is a browser and possibly (but maybe not) some plug-in capability. Something like that could be delivered in firmware. Is the machine of the future going to essentially be a browser with an Internet connection, where local software might be relegated simply to A/V rendering? In some ways, this would be a lovely, simple environment to work in. I'm sure it will be fraught with it's own technology headaches though. Are we at edge of a major paradigm shift in information presentation and management? Or have we already over the edge but don't know it? Marc VS2005 Tips & Tricks -- contributions welcome! -- modified at 12:17 Wednesday 9th November, 2005
They'll have to pry my local OS PC out of my cold dead hand. I don't want to have my stuff stored on somebody else's PC. I want to be able to use my PC when the connectivity is down. Local files for a local PC. I don't want to go back to the network PC days, it left the control of the software in the hands of the big boys. I like the fact I can write my own code and run it on my own machine without having to worry about anything but breaking my own stuff. Michael CP Blog [^] Development Blog [^]
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From here-[^] Microsoft Corp. has recently faced criticism that its model, which still relies mostly on delivering software in traditional packaging, could grow antiquated. The concern is that, as more companies offer online services for everything from word processing to storing photos, there will be less of a need for Microsoft's lucrative Windows operating system and Office business software. If this trend has any real substance to it (which I personally feel it does not, except in limited applications) it strike me that the only thing the user is going to need on his machine is a browser and possibly (but maybe not) some plug-in capability. Something like that could be delivered in firmware. Is the machine of the future going to essentially be a browser with an Internet connection, where local software might be relegated simply to A/V rendering? In some ways, this would be a lovely, simple environment to work in. I'm sure it will be fraught with it's own technology headaches though. Are we at edge of a major paradigm shift in information presentation and management? Or have we already over the edge but don't know it? Marc VS2005 Tips & Tricks -- contributions welcome! -- modified at 12:17 Wednesday 9th November, 2005
The next free weekend any of you guys have and are willing to jump off the Microsoft freight train, download Ruby on Rails[^] and start playing with some of the tutorials on your local machine. Specifically, try out RoR with the corresponding AJAX[^] libraries. You'll be absolutely amazed at how quickly you can develop an application that is as responsive as a common desktop app. And once the browser feels like a desktop app, most end users won't give a crap about the backend source of the application. When the webapp feels like a desktop app, Microsoft is in trouble. We're not there yet, but we're getting awfully close. Try out Ruby on Rails and utilize their Ajax libraries. You'll fall in love. Jim QTExtender - The OFFICIAL addon for QuoteTracker. -- modified at 14:09 Wednesday 9th November, 2005
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It's not the first time people talk about that. In the middle/late 90' it was all about ASP (Application Service Providers) and it did not take off, then it was all about thin clients, did not take of, and now it's the ASP thing again. Nope, people want to be able to print, copy photos from the digicam, rip music to the mp3-player... Oh, and lets not forget games, that's a huge industry... So I don't see it happen in the consumer world, but maybe in the corporate world where most users don't need much more than a word processor and a spreadsheet... - Anders
I wanna see Adobe Photoshop as an ASP. ... "Yes, I started to open the image a few hours ago sir. It's almost done and I'll be able to edit it soon."
Some assembly required. Code-frog System Architects, Inc.
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From here-[^] Microsoft Corp. has recently faced criticism that its model, which still relies mostly on delivering software in traditional packaging, could grow antiquated. The concern is that, as more companies offer online services for everything from word processing to storing photos, there will be less of a need for Microsoft's lucrative Windows operating system and Office business software. If this trend has any real substance to it (which I personally feel it does not, except in limited applications) it strike me that the only thing the user is going to need on his machine is a browser and possibly (but maybe not) some plug-in capability. Something like that could be delivered in firmware. Is the machine of the future going to essentially be a browser with an Internet connection, where local software might be relegated simply to A/V rendering? In some ways, this would be a lovely, simple environment to work in. I'm sure it will be fraught with it's own technology headaches though. Are we at edge of a major paradigm shift in information presentation and management? Or have we already over the edge but don't know it? Marc VS2005 Tips & Tricks -- contributions welcome! -- modified at 12:17 Wednesday 9th November, 2005
There was a fad back in the mid 90's with something similar. Ever heard of an X terminal[^]? The physics lab I was at thought this would be an ingenius idea. One central computer from which several "terminals" could all link to. When you sat down there was basically a screen, keyboard, mouse and a black box that was responsible for the communication with the central server. All applications were run remotely. In principle, maybe it was a good idea. In practice, it was awful. Difficulty booting, network problems, server load, slow performance, no access to a hard disk or anything. In a room full of 2 regular PC's and 12 X Terminals, there was always somebody on the PCs and the terminals were always free. I think, psychologically, people like to have assurance that what they are working on is sitting in front of them. Besides, as has already been mentioned, we currently have connection speed problems, network reliability, etc...etc. Not to mention privacy issues...
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Uhm, more than half of the online world is on sub-64 Kbps lines. Until the whole world is connected on lines faster than 2 Mbps (though if you are gonna do word processing, development, debugging etc on the web, you'd need 50 Mbps I guess), it's not going to happen.
How important is the sub-64 world though? Hey, don't jump on me, I come from that world and I have to face the fact that my sub-64 market is hardly a blip on the radar of Google, Microsoft et. al. India may have over a billion people but how many are potential users of 2 Mbps lines? I know that most of Africa certainly could not make use of 2 Mbps lines. What about China though, they seem to be in a similar boat to India with regards to the average man but they are rolling out high-speed networks. So maybe I am wrong and the "build it and they will use it" applies in India and Africa. Google is a good case in point though of where the market focus lies. Most of their more interesting projects are U.S. only. Not even Europe has Google Local or 3D maps in Google Earth. Possibly the sub-64 world will simply be left behind as they don't have the buying power to matter. regards, Paul Watson Ireland Colib and ilikecameras. K(arl) wrote: oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!
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>maybe in the corporate world DEFINITELY in the corporate world. We supply large Unix based systems that require a special client application to be installed. This client uses a private TCP protocol to display rich forms that use Windows controls, plus some custom controls of our own. Basically, the client application is a glorified terminal emulator. Now, without exception, every new prospect we have asks if we do a "browser client". The people in charge of these systems (we are talking 10,000+ users in some cases) do not want to have to install another Windows application on all these boxes. It is a no-brainer, especially now that broadband connections are becoming the norm. From my POV, the browser is indeed fast becoming the application. And, I have to say, that with good CSS/AJAX, you can create something that looks great, feels like a "real" app, and most importantly, executes fast enough. I think that for the corporate world, web applications are the future.
The Rob Blog
Google Talk: robert.caldecottSounds like it's back to the past again boys.... ;P;P;P
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Scott Serl wrote:
You haven't been doing much web development have you?
hehe. I should qualify that by saying "a browser as does not exist today", and using something a lot more advanced than HTML shoehorned with Javascript shoehorned with DHTML shoehorned with Ajax, etc. Marc VS2005 Tips & Tricks -- contributions welcome!
It still won't be lovely and simple. regards, Paul Watson Ireland Colib and ilikecameras. K(arl) wrote: oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!
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There was a fad back in the mid 90's with something similar. Ever heard of an X terminal[^]? The physics lab I was at thought this would be an ingenius idea. One central computer from which several "terminals" could all link to. When you sat down there was basically a screen, keyboard, mouse and a black box that was responsible for the communication with the central server. All applications were run remotely. In principle, maybe it was a good idea. In practice, it was awful. Difficulty booting, network problems, server load, slow performance, no access to a hard disk or anything. In a room full of 2 regular PC's and 12 X Terminals, there was always somebody on the PCs and the terminals were always free. I think, psychologically, people like to have assurance that what they are working on is sitting in front of them. Besides, as has already been mentioned, we currently have connection speed problems, network reliability, etc...etc. Not to mention privacy issues...
Which of course was the evil rationale behind XLib and X-Windows, the spawn of Satan himself. And guess what - nearly 20 years later (I think X was started in 1984 at MIT) the X folks *still* are getting into pissing matches over things like how to *implement* cut/copy/paste, and how to provide support for anything beyond text. Sigh... ¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF!
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The next free weekend any of you guys have and are willing to jump off the Microsoft freight train, download Ruby on Rails[^] and start playing with some of the tutorials on your local machine. Specifically, try out RoR with the corresponding AJAX[^] libraries. You'll be absolutely amazed at how quickly you can develop an application that is as responsive as a common desktop app. And once the browser feels like a desktop app, most end users won't give a crap about the backend source of the application. When the webapp feels like a desktop app, Microsoft is in trouble. We're not there yet, but we're getting awfully close. Try out Ruby on Rails and utilize their Ajax libraries. You'll fall in love. Jim QTExtender - The OFFICIAL addon for QuoteTracker. -- modified at 14:09 Wednesday 9th November, 2005
Ask Brian, I do Rails everyday and love it. But I love it in comparison to other web frameworks, not in comparison to what you can do on a desktop. It isn't close, not yet and not for a good two years or more. regards, Paul Watson Ireland Colib and ilikecameras. K(arl) wrote: oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!
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From here-[^] Microsoft Corp. has recently faced criticism that its model, which still relies mostly on delivering software in traditional packaging, could grow antiquated. The concern is that, as more companies offer online services for everything from word processing to storing photos, there will be less of a need for Microsoft's lucrative Windows operating system and Office business software. If this trend has any real substance to it (which I personally feel it does not, except in limited applications) it strike me that the only thing the user is going to need on his machine is a browser and possibly (but maybe not) some plug-in capability. Something like that could be delivered in firmware. Is the machine of the future going to essentially be a browser with an Internet connection, where local software might be relegated simply to A/V rendering? In some ways, this would be a lovely, simple environment to work in. I'm sure it will be fraught with it's own technology headaches though. Are we at edge of a major paradigm shift in information presentation and management? Or have we already over the edge but don't know it? Marc VS2005 Tips & Tricks -- contributions welcome! -- modified at 12:17 Wednesday 9th November, 2005
We are going to meet half-way. Internet enabled desktop apps. Easy deployment, transparent updates, access-anywhere, seamlessly sychronised data, disconnected and connected processes. Local storage too but synced. Basically the benefits of the web with the benifits of the desktop. Why should we compromise with one or the other model? regards, Paul Watson Ireland Colib and ilikecameras. K(arl) wrote: oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!
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We are going to meet half-way. Internet enabled desktop apps. Easy deployment, transparent updates, access-anywhere, seamlessly sychronised data, disconnected and connected processes. Local storage too but synced. Basically the benefits of the web with the benifits of the desktop. Why should we compromise with one or the other model? regards, Paul Watson Ireland Colib and ilikecameras. K(arl) wrote: oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!
yeah, that's the ticket!
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From here-[^] Microsoft Corp. has recently faced criticism that its model, which still relies mostly on delivering software in traditional packaging, could grow antiquated. The concern is that, as more companies offer online services for everything from word processing to storing photos, there will be less of a need for Microsoft's lucrative Windows operating system and Office business software. If this trend has any real substance to it (which I personally feel it does not, except in limited applications) it strike me that the only thing the user is going to need on his machine is a browser and possibly (but maybe not) some plug-in capability. Something like that could be delivered in firmware. Is the machine of the future going to essentially be a browser with an Internet connection, where local software might be relegated simply to A/V rendering? In some ways, this would be a lovely, simple environment to work in. I'm sure it will be fraught with it's own technology headaches though. Are we at edge of a major paradigm shift in information presentation and management? Or have we already over the edge but don't know it? Marc VS2005 Tips & Tricks -- contributions welcome! -- modified at 12:17 Wednesday 9th November, 2005
No the browser will not become the new OS. What about Half-Life 2, AutoCad, 3DS max, video/audio editing, etc.? I think it might take a few more decades before those can be run off a server.
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Unless you're hosting those web applications in-house on a corporate web server, I don't think you want to bet your company's productivity on the internet. Last month, some nitwit next to our office building cut off our T1 connection while digging up a new construction site. It took our incompetent phone company two whole days to get us back up and going. If we had the web model, everyone in our company would be off work for two whole days. Hmmm...may not have been a bad thing. ;P I just don't think it's reliable enough for business environments either.
Most of our customers have their own Unix box hosting our application - but not all - we are now hosting a few hundred systems and we are doing very well out of it thanks. Yes, connections can go down - so can LANs, hard disks, etc. I think the networks are reliable enough - and the speed is increasing year on year. My local exchange is switching to ADSL2+ in January - I will be able to get close to 20Mbps for £20 a month - I was only on 512Kbps 18 months ago. The advent of widely available, high speed broadband connections is a golden opportunity for people in the application hosting business. My main point is that maintaining thousands of PCs is a nightmare - we already have lots of customers using Wyse terminals in conjunction with Citrix servers - the benefits are that each terminal can be locked down, and replacing a duff terminal is simply a case of plugging in a new one. Using the browser to access our applications is a logical step forward. However, I remain sceptical that people will be using a web version of Office anytime soon - my companies applications are already hosted on a central server, so all we are doing is changing from a dedicated Windows client to a browser-based one. There will always be a place for PCs with local disks and rich client apps - but expect more of web apps in these big corporate companies - as I said, we are asked about a browser client daily.
The Rob Blog
Google Talk: robert.caldecott