Smoker Abuse
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I have just had a smoke outside where I work and a passer by muttered "****ing smokers" to their friend. It was obvious that I was the target of the statement. Now, I like to think that I am a considerate smoker (smoking in designated areas, not exhaling fumes into passers by, smoking down-wind at bus-stops, etc). In the light of the possibility of smoking being banned in public places and other such legislation this issue has been something that has been of growing interest to me. Should I, the smoker, be the target of these statements (after all, it is my fault that I smoke)? Has anyone else had a similar experience? If so, how did you deal with it?
Well, I seem to have caused more of a stir here than my "coders are misanthropic" rant a while ago. It seems that most of those who posted are opposed to smoking. And quite rightly too. I have been smoking now for just over three years and I have started to notice the effects that it has upon my health. There is very little that I can give in favour of this habit, but what I can say is that I enjoy it. [Pause whilst I roll anouther tab] Thats better. These two people were infact trespassing on private property, I smoke at the back of where I work and take some measures that no other worker has to put up with my smoking - except my absense from the work place. I am currently the only smoker where I work and my bosses are kind enough to allow me this privelidge. From the comments that have been posted I feel that it was infact me who was trespassing against these two - and perhaps that is true.
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HalfWayMan wrote:
Should I, the smoker, be the target of these statements (after all, it is my fault that I smoke)?
I think it comes down to who has had to deal with trouble from someone before. Men are the brunt of verbal lashings from women who have had issues in the past, and women the same. You smoke in front of me, I walk around you, it will be noticeable, but I will not pass you. I have gotten verbal lashings from the smoker just from doing that much, and some will even blow smoke in my direction because I walked around them. I also cannot breath around smokers... I can't breath in the hills east of san diego or in parts of L.A. either, I try to avoid them too unless work sends me. In winter I can't visit parts of El Paso either because of the use of tires as fire burning material. I don't need medical treatment for asthma as long as I avoid a certain amount of polutants, so I can choose to be medicated all my life, or I can avoid the triggers. Do what you want, just remember: no matter how careful, someone's downwind. _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
You smoke in front of me, I walk around you, it will be noticeable, but I will not pass you.
I would consider it MY responsibility, not yours.
Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
I have gotten verbal lashings from the smoker just from doing that much, and some will even blow smoke in my direction because I walked around them.
My first reaction to this was along the lines of "but I don't do that". However, this is rather a hollow and meaningless reply. After thought there is nothing that I can say about this other than their behaviour is not acceptable. [The rest] I am sorry. Forgive me for the discomfort I have caused those who suffer as you do.
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No you should not (be the target of these statements). The person in question is just plain rude. Regards, Rob Philpott.
Indeed? After consideration I have realised that on other, similar occasions, it might have infact been me who was being rude. Is rudeness not a matter of point of view? Well, I think that is anouther rant entirely. Thankyou for your support, though.
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Well, I seem to have caused more of a stir here than my "coders are misanthropic" rant a while ago. It seems that most of those who posted are opposed to smoking. And quite rightly too. I have been smoking now for just over three years and I have started to notice the effects that it has upon my health. There is very little that I can give in favour of this habit, but what I can say is that I enjoy it. [Pause whilst I roll anouther tab] Thats better. These two people were infact trespassing on private property, I smoke at the back of where I work and take some measures that no other worker has to put up with my smoking - except my absense from the work place. I am currently the only smoker where I work and my bosses are kind enough to allow me this privelidge. From the comments that have been posted I feel that it was infact me who was trespassing against these two - and perhaps that is true.
HalfWayMan wrote:
From the comments that have been posted I feel that it was infact me who was trespassing against these two - and perhaps that is true.
But, if you are on private property, in an area that the owner has designated for smokers, then, even although I'd rather people didn't smoke, I would say that you are in the right. Although I am opposed to people smoking, I recognise that I would be impinging on their liberties to do what they want if I wanted a complete ban. A complete ban would just drive the whole thing underground and give rise to criminal gangs who supply another illegal drug. They way I see it, if there are set areas where smokers can go where they won't bother non-smokers (unless they want to be bothered of course) then everyone can get on. Tolerance of other people is key. Some want to smoke, others don't.
My: Blog | Photos "Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in." -- Confucious
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HalfWayMan wrote:
From the comments that have been posted I feel that it was infact me who was trespassing against these two - and perhaps that is true.
But, if you are on private property, in an area that the owner has designated for smokers, then, even although I'd rather people didn't smoke, I would say that you are in the right. Although I am opposed to people smoking, I recognise that I would be impinging on their liberties to do what they want if I wanted a complete ban. A complete ban would just drive the whole thing underground and give rise to criminal gangs who supply another illegal drug. They way I see it, if there are set areas where smokers can go where they won't bother non-smokers (unless they want to be bothered of course) then everyone can get on. Tolerance of other people is key. Some want to smoke, others don't.
My: Blog | Photos "Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in." -- Confucious
My grandma got one of her breasts cut off for cancer, and then she died of something similar... I miss her... :(( Lord Kixdemp www.SulfurMidis.com www.SulfurSoft.tk [ftp://][http://][hotline://]tsfc.ath.cx
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Indeed? After consideration I have realised that on other, similar occasions, it might have infact been me who was being rude. Is rudeness not a matter of point of view? Well, I think that is anouther rant entirely. Thankyou for your support, though.
I guess what you say is right and that it is a matter of point of view. The rights and wrongs of smoking don't really feature in my argument though. You were not trying to cause offense, you were merely doing something which someone else disliked or disapproved of. They *were* trying to cause offense to you by making sure you overheard their derisory expletives. A matter of intent I'd say. Regards, Rob Philpott.
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My grandma got one of her breasts cut off for cancer, and then she died of something similar... I miss her... :(( Lord Kixdemp www.SulfurMidis.com www.SulfurSoft.tk [ftp://][http://][hotline://]tsfc.ath.cx
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I have just had a smoke outside where I work and a passer by muttered "****ing smokers" to their friend. It was obvious that I was the target of the statement. Now, I like to think that I am a considerate smoker (smoking in designated areas, not exhaling fumes into passers by, smoking down-wind at bus-stops, etc). In the light of the possibility of smoking being banned in public places and other such legislation this issue has been something that has been of growing interest to me. Should I, the smoker, be the target of these statements (after all, it is my fault that I smoke)? Has anyone else had a similar experience? If so, how did you deal with it?
I've been a non-smoker my entire life, but have smoker family members and friends. Their smoke has never offended me, but the abusive attitude of many non-smokers is very offensive to me. Most smokers are hard working, everyday kind of folks that try to just trying to get by like the rest of us. Frankly, if there were no vices life would be a lot more boring than it is. Though smoking isn't my vice, I certainly believe that smokers, when acting responsibly, have the right to indulge in their vice without being harassed. Especially when they are being courteous about it. My observation is that most smokers have a lot of latent guilt about their vice (which appears to be why this conversation started). Frankly, the folks that hassled this fellow were just plain jerks that justified their behavior with their non-smoker self righteousness. But the bottom line is bullsh*t is bullsh*t no matter who flings it. Just ignore them and enjoy your smokes. Keith Rule
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Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
You smoke in front of me, I walk around you, it will be noticeable, but I will not pass you.
I would consider it MY responsibility, not yours.
Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
I have gotten verbal lashings from the smoker just from doing that much, and some will even blow smoke in my direction because I walked around them.
My first reaction to this was along the lines of "but I don't do that". However, this is rather a hollow and meaningless reply. After thought there is nothing that I can say about this other than their behaviour is not acceptable. [The rest] I am sorry. Forgive me for the discomfort I have caused those who suffer as you do.
HalfWayMan wrote:
I am sorry. Forgive me for the discomfort I have caused those who suffer as you do.
Just letting you know that it is difficult for some of us. I won't give you a tongue lashing, I consider that unacceptable too. NM and Arizona were the destinations of many people with lung illnesses in the old west, as such it is not surprising that long-term families in the area suffer from various lung weaknesses. The subject of making towns completely smoke-free outside of your own home is getting more and more common here, now you understand why. As such smokers feel attacked, so the reaction to non-smokers is often rude. I can understand their standpoint as well. The smokers and non-smokers trade rudeness often, and it affects either side that is not rude. I do appreciate your concern in not doing those things I mentioned, I really do. Just letting you know that the situation is very complicated. edit: may you always remember the consideration no matter how you are treated, and I hope that the non-smokers learn the same. _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb) -- modified at 20:16 Saturday 3rd December, 2005
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HalfWayMan wrote:
From the comments that have been posted I feel that it was infact me who was trespassing against these two - and perhaps that is true.
But, if you are on private property, in an area that the owner has designated for smokers, then, even although I'd rather people didn't smoke, I would say that you are in the right. Although I am opposed to people smoking, I recognise that I would be impinging on their liberties to do what they want if I wanted a complete ban. A complete ban would just drive the whole thing underground and give rise to criminal gangs who supply another illegal drug. They way I see it, if there are set areas where smokers can go where they won't bother non-smokers (unless they want to be bothered of course) then everyone can get on. Tolerance of other people is key. Some want to smoke, others don't.
My: Blog | Photos "Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in." -- Confucious
Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
Although I am opposed to people smoking, I recognise that I would be impinging on their liberties to do what they want if I wanted a complete ban. A complete ban would just drive the whole thing underground and give rise to criminal gangs who supply another illegal drug.
I've never heard of a complete ban, even in an area where the subject comes up often. One city has already banned it in any place that served food. (bars then had to decide either to be smoke free and serve some foods, or to stop serving foods and keep the patrons) All Federal Government facilities are all now smoke-free zones. They went through the period of 20 feet from all buildings, but this just complicated things and it was difficult to enforce. They tried painting notices of specialized smoke zones, but some buildings were too close together so those workers had to walk several blocks to get to a smoking zone. And non-smokers had to deal with larger clumps of smokers all smoking in the same location at the same time concentrating the smoke downwind. Eventually, word came down that because of similar problems in all government facilities, they were considering going completely smoke-free. Although it had a huge uproar over the initial idea, its still only non-home locations. I haven't heard a call for a ban in people's homes, though I know it feels that way with so many calls for a smoke-free city, and some already have. This town has considered it twice and failed to pass it twice by a narrow margin. A neighboring town passed it on their 5th year trying. But you can still smoke in your own home, it mostly means that no business, bar, restraunt, shopping center, etc will have smoking zones in any way. I have yet to hear a call for banning in the home, but I can't follow such things too far from home, I only travel so often. _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
Although I am opposed to people smoking, I recognise that I would be impinging on their liberties to do what they want if I wanted a complete ban. A complete ban would just drive the whole thing underground and give rise to criminal gangs who supply another illegal drug.
I've never heard of a complete ban, even in an area where the subject comes up often. One city has already banned it in any place that served food. (bars then had to decide either to be smoke free and serve some foods, or to stop serving foods and keep the patrons) All Federal Government facilities are all now smoke-free zones. They went through the period of 20 feet from all buildings, but this just complicated things and it was difficult to enforce. They tried painting notices of specialized smoke zones, but some buildings were too close together so those workers had to walk several blocks to get to a smoking zone. And non-smokers had to deal with larger clumps of smokers all smoking in the same location at the same time concentrating the smoke downwind. Eventually, word came down that because of similar problems in all government facilities, they were considering going completely smoke-free. Although it had a huge uproar over the initial idea, its still only non-home locations. I haven't heard a call for a ban in people's homes, though I know it feels that way with so many calls for a smoke-free city, and some already have. This town has considered it twice and failed to pass it twice by a narrow margin. A neighboring town passed it on their 5th year trying. But you can still smoke in your own home, it mostly means that no business, bar, restraunt, shopping center, etc will have smoking zones in any way. I have yet to hear a call for banning in the home, but I can't follow such things too far from home, I only travel so often. _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
I've never heard of a complete ban, even in an area where the subject comes up often
I think some politicians are pushing for it. Although the vast majortity want a compromise. There will be problems in Scotland next year because the new ban that will be introduced will mean no smoking in any public enclosed space (e.g pubs). This will mean that smokers will stand just outside which defeats the purpose as non-smokers will have to walk through a cloud of smoke to get into the pub.
Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
I haven't heard a call for a ban in people's homes
Well, if people want to smoke in their own home then that's fine with me. I just hope the don't mind everything going an odd colour. An ex-girlfriend used to smoke and when she moved out I took the opportunity to repaint the walls. What a difference it made! I never realised how off-white the ceilings had become.
Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
no business, bar, restraunt, shopping center, etc will have smoking zones in any way
I don't mind smoking zones in these places so long as they are clearly marked and have appropriate air-filtering systems so that the smoke does not leave the designated area.
My: Blog | Photos "Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in." -- Confucious
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I have just had a smoke outside where I work and a passer by muttered "****ing smokers" to their friend. It was obvious that I was the target of the statement. Now, I like to think that I am a considerate smoker (smoking in designated areas, not exhaling fumes into passers by, smoking down-wind at bus-stops, etc). In the light of the possibility of smoking being banned in public places and other such legislation this issue has been something that has been of growing interest to me. Should I, the smoker, be the target of these statements (after all, it is my fault that I smoke)? Has anyone else had a similar experience? If so, how did you deal with it?
Anyone that smoke's anywhere near me pisses me off. [edit]I should mention that I am allergic to cigarette/cigar/pipe smoke. My eyes get itchy/watery and gives me severe headaches. It even bothers me if someone is smoking in the car in front of me going down there road.[/edit]
Found on Bash.org [erno] hm. I've lost a machine.. literally _lost_. it responds to ping, it works completely, I just can't figure out where in my apartment it is.
-- modified at 21:09 Saturday 3rd December, 2005
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HalfWayMan wrote:
? If so, how did you deal with it?
It was probably me. I often utter those words when somebody is smoking near me... of course, I spent 5 years working in an office where everybody smoked and inhaling all their smoke has caused me many chest problems and brought my asthma back. Michael CP Blog [^] Development Blog [^]
And this gives you the legimitation to offend every smoker you encounter?
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HalfWayMan wrote:
Should I, the smoker, be the target of these statements (after all, it is my fault that I smoke)?
I think it comes down to who has had to deal with trouble from someone before. Men are the brunt of verbal lashings from women who have had issues in the past, and women the same. You smoke in front of me, I walk around you, it will be noticeable, but I will not pass you. I have gotten verbal lashings from the smoker just from doing that much, and some will even blow smoke in my direction because I walked around them. I also cannot breath around smokers... I can't breath in the hills east of san diego or in parts of L.A. either, I try to avoid them too unless work sends me. In winter I can't visit parts of El Paso either because of the use of tires as fire burning material. I don't need medical treatment for asthma as long as I avoid a certain amount of polutants, so I can choose to be medicated all my life, or I can avoid the triggers. Do what you want, just remember: no matter how careful, someone's downwind. _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
Do what you want, just remember: no matter how careful, someone's downwind.
I remember that when farting the next time... :laugh:
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And this gives you the legimitation to offend every smoker you encounter?
Neat big word, but do you mean legitimation. :-) Regardz Colin J Davies The most LinkedIn CPian (that I know of anyhow) :-)
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Neat big word, but do you mean legitimation. :-) Regardz Colin J Davies The most LinkedIn CPian (that I know of anyhow) :-)
I thought about excusing this mistake with my bad english but in german the word is written exactly the same way. :sigh:
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I thought about excusing this mistake with my bad english but in german the word is written exactly the same way. :sigh:
LOL - Amazingly I do not recall ever seeing that word in written form before. Regardz Colin J Davies The most LinkedIn CPian (that I know of anyhow) :-)
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Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
I've never heard of a complete ban, even in an area where the subject comes up often
I think some politicians are pushing for it. Although the vast majortity want a compromise. There will be problems in Scotland next year because the new ban that will be introduced will mean no smoking in any public enclosed space (e.g pubs). This will mean that smokers will stand just outside which defeats the purpose as non-smokers will have to walk through a cloud of smoke to get into the pub.
Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
I haven't heard a call for a ban in people's homes
Well, if people want to smoke in their own home then that's fine with me. I just hope the don't mind everything going an odd colour. An ex-girlfriend used to smoke and when she moved out I took the opportunity to repaint the walls. What a difference it made! I never realised how off-white the ceilings had become.
Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
no business, bar, restraunt, shopping center, etc will have smoking zones in any way
I don't mind smoking zones in these places so long as they are clearly marked and have appropriate air-filtering systems so that the smoke does not leave the designated area.
My: Blog | Photos "Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in." -- Confucious
Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
I think some politicians are pushing for it. Although the vast majortity want a compromise.
I can't speak for Scotland, but I'd certainly favour a complete ban. I've lost count of the number of times I've walked out of a cafe, bar or restaurant (the latest was an hour ago) because I couldn't cope with the smoke. I was subjected to that filth by virtually everyone in my family when I was a child, and I would prefer not to smell another cigarette again.
Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
There will be problems in Scotland next year because the new ban that will be introduced will mean no smoking in any public enclosed space (e.g pubs). This will mean that smokers will stand just outside which defeats the purpose as non-smokers will have to walk through a cloud of smoke to get into the pub.
That's potentially a problem, but I'm sure it can be overcome with due consideration by the proprietors. Anna :rose: Currently working mostly on: Visual Lint :cool: Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work.
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Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
I think some politicians are pushing for it. Although the vast majortity want a compromise.
I can't speak for Scotland, but I'd certainly favour a complete ban. I've lost count of the number of times I've walked out of a cafe, bar or restaurant (the latest was an hour ago) because I couldn't cope with the smoke. I was subjected to that filth by virtually everyone in my family when I was a child, and I would prefer not to smell another cigarette again.
Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
There will be problems in Scotland next year because the new ban that will be introduced will mean no smoking in any public enclosed space (e.g pubs). This will mean that smokers will stand just outside which defeats the purpose as non-smokers will have to walk through a cloud of smoke to get into the pub.
That's potentially a problem, but I'm sure it can be overcome with due consideration by the proprietors. Anna :rose: Currently working mostly on: Visual Lint :cool: Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work.
Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:
I can't speak for Scotland, but I'd certainly favour a complete ban.
Personally I thinka complete ban (i.e. no smoking anywhere and no ability to buy cigarettes) would be counterproductive as it would just drive everything underground and it would give rise to criminal gangs who have a ready made captive set of customers. I would like to see a complete ban on smoking in public places (e.g. streets, parks, cars with open windows [unless on private property] and so on) and business premesis. I be happy with exemptions for certain types of business (cigar clubs), but they would be few and far between. If people want to smoke in their own home then thats fine with me if children are not present - but, how do you police that?
Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:
That's potentially a problem, but I'm sure it can be overcome with due consideration by the proprietors
Well, if they do good business and continue to make a profit then I doubt they'd care. So, we'll have to wait and see what happens.
My: Blog | Photos "Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in." -- Confucious
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Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:
I can't speak for Scotland, but I'd certainly favour a complete ban.
Personally I thinka complete ban (i.e. no smoking anywhere and no ability to buy cigarettes) would be counterproductive as it would just drive everything underground and it would give rise to criminal gangs who have a ready made captive set of customers. I would like to see a complete ban on smoking in public places (e.g. streets, parks, cars with open windows [unless on private property] and so on) and business premesis. I be happy with exemptions for certain types of business (cigar clubs), but they would be few and far between. If people want to smoke in their own home then thats fine with me if children are not present - but, how do you police that?
Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:
That's potentially a problem, but I'm sure it can be overcome with due consideration by the proprietors
Well, if they do good business and continue to make a profit then I doubt they'd care. So, we'll have to wait and see what happens.
My: Blog | Photos "Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in." -- Confucious
Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
I would like to see a complete ban on smoking in public places (e.g. streets, parks, cars with open windows [unless on private property] and so on) and business premesis.
That's what I meant. I don't why any premises with employees (licenced or otherwise) should be allowed an exception though. The governments' favoured compromise is - in my humble opinion - complete crap. Anna :rose: Currently working mostly on: Visual Lint :cool: Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work.