Lower case g
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Kevin Ranville wrote: Jesus commanded his followers to "turn the other cheek" when it comes to persecution. I'm well aware of this. In fact that's one of the few parts of Christianity that I hold dear to my heart. Unfortunately for Christianity, there seem to be many "followers" of Christ who don't quite understand this. Take the whole northern Ireland Catholic/Protestant spat. How many people over there have died in the name of Christ? How many children have to get stoned walking to school in the morning, because they don't believe the same thing as the people who live on the streets through which they walk?Why can't they all "turn the other cheek"? Unfortunately, explaining to them that because of their actions they are no longer considered "true" Christians won't fix anything. I don't know what will. But I dare you to explain to them how they are not "true" Christians... Don't forget your kevlar vest and riot helmet... Kevin Ranville wrote: Humans have failed. Christianity has not. Actually, I agree with the "Humans have failed" bit, but the Christianity bit I don't follow. If I understand correctly (and perhaps I don't), it is considered a "sin" to worship idols - indeed to worship anyone but the one "true" god (and his son, and mother, and various saints). I hate to say it but there is still way too much hate on this planet because many Christians cannot accept that someone else might have their own beliefs. It's a sin to be a homosexual. There are people who use this site who still harbour hatred for gays, which more than likely stems from some basic Christian belief. And on and on. The whole concept of "sin" draws a line between "Christians" and "sinners", and that in itself opens up unnecessary conflict. If everyone could accept that, even within the same religion, no two people have the same beliefs AND THAT'S OK, I would feel truly comfortable raising my baby girl in this world. I got a fiver says that doesn't happen in my lifetime... J - Proud Sinner circa. 1996
Jamie Hale wrote: And on and on. The whole concept of "sin" draws a line between "Christians" and "sinners", and that in itself opens up unnecessary conflict. Although this isn't exactly what you said, I want to make it clear that the Bible makes no distinction between "Christians" and "sinners". In fact the opposite is quite explicitly stated: For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, an are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. Rom 3:23-24 A person hating another person because the other person has commited sins against God is truly ironic. Its like an abusive husband hating someone who hit his wife. As a Christian I can tell you its a frequent struggle not to hate people who commit certain sins that I consider heinous, but if God loves me despite my sin, then I should try to love them. Regards, Dan
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Apparently there's a holy war going on in India now. Muslims and Hindu's are slaughtering each other by the hundreds. The army has been order to shoot rioters and arsonists on site. Who are the gods these whackos claim to be serving? It sure ain't the God I know. Anyone want to build an ark with me? :eek: Why not throw away a dime? I throw away ten pennies all the time.
Holy war - now _there's_ an oxymoron... Here's my solution to all of these conflicts. Each party involved in a particular dispute (orange/green, Israeli/Palestinian, Moslem/Hindu etc.) will participate in the preparation of a bilateral admissions document which will list all of the things that they have done in the past that were 'wrong' - without regard to context. This last is an important point - its very hard to get anywhere with statements like "Well, yes, but I had to disembowel him after he ate my dog! It is our way!". Massacres, bombings, unilateral state declarations etc. can all be listed here, with a healthy disregard wrt for whether they were 'justified'. Each side will need to be prodded like a child - "Johnny, do you think it was right to shoot those kids?", and of course this all may take some time. Once a document has been approved by both sides it will be notarized by a UN council and made public. This document will carry implicit weight as being one of apology and regret and may go a long way towards lessening tensions and providing the delination necessary to proceed in terms of a present context. Simplistic and unrealistic? You betcha. Only a total f**ing idiot would propose this. So... what am I missing here...
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Nish - you gotta move somewhere where the download speeds are faster, the people more laid back, the sun shines and the inhabitants understand cricket. Come over to Australia ;) cheers, Chris Maunder
Chris Maunder wrote: ...where the download speeds are faster, the people more laid back, the sun shines and the inhabitants understand cricket. Now if they could just get the replys to line up with the right posts... :-P
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Today was declared a national bandh day. I donno any equivalent word for bandh. In kerala bandhs are banned and so we had a hartal, basically the same. What a bandh/hartal means is you stay home. If you get out they attack you violently. If you take your car out, they burn it. They call this democracy. Democracy my foot! Nish It's seven o'clock On the dot I'm in my drop top Cruisin' the streets - Oh yeah I got a real pretty, pretty little thing that's waiting for me
Wow! And I thought Brazil was in a big violence wave (kidnapping here in São Paulo went from 7/year to 40/month in 3 years)... Now, THAT'S violence. Some drug dealers here created a 'bandh', too, that is stablished when some of them die when fighting police. Crivo Automated Credit Assessment
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Apparently there's a holy war going on in India now. Muslims and Hindu's are slaughtering each other by the hundreds. The army has been order to shoot rioters and arsonists on site. Who are the gods these whackos claim to be serving? It sure ain't the God I know. Anyone want to build an ark with me? :eek: Why not throw away a dime? I throw away ten pennies all the time.
"Hey Noah!" "What!" "What are ya building there?" "I can't tell you - ha ha ha!" "Would you mind getting this thing outa my driveway? Seriously what are you building?" "I can't tell you - ha ha ha!" "Can you give me a hint?" "You want a hint?" "Yeah!" "How long can you tread water? Ha ha ha!" "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
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"Hey Noah!" "What!" "What are ya building there?" "I can't tell you - ha ha ha!" "Would you mind getting this thing outa my driveway? Seriously what are you building?" "I can't tell you - ha ha ha!" "Can you give me a hint?" "You want a hint?" "Yeah!" "How long can you tread water? Ha ha ha!" "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
What's a cubit? :D cheers, Chris Maunder
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Chris Maunder wrote: ...where the download speeds are faster, the people more laid back, the sun shines and the inhabitants understand cricket. Now if they could just get the replys to line up with the right posts... :-P
ARGH! That feature was meant to have been fixed! *sigh* cheers, Chris Maunder
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ARGH! That feature was meant to have been fixed! *sigh* cheers, Chris Maunder
Hmmm - it may be an idiot bug - looks like this happens if I reply to a message and take too long to submit. (Like, I tink slow sometimes eh). Some sort of indexing wrinkle. By the time I hit the submit btn the n in my session data wrangles itself in (scuse me! I was in line here!)before a couple of replys that were sent whilst I was composing my brilliant thoughts.
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What's a cubit? :D cheers, Chris Maunder
1/8th of a cubyte ;P Dan
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All of these things you have sited that are supposedly Christian are not. (Other than Idol worship, I suppose). Christians were never called to worship Jesus' mother or various saints. Not in the bible anyway. Of course man-made religion is full of this sort of thing. Unfortuneatly people who made up this "religion" have mislabeled it Christianity just becuase Jesus is in there somewhere, and have confused and turned people off of it for centuries. As I said above, true Christianity follows the precepts taught in the bible. These precepts are to be followed in the spirit of the commandment. While homosexuality is called a sin in the new and old testament, we are never called to to "hate gays". Anyone who hates a sinner for their sins is calling God's judgement upon himself, because he himself is a sinner, and there are no sins "worse than other sins" in God's eyes. If you hear people condemning anyone in the name of christianity, disregard them, they are not Christians themselves. We are commanded to *lead* people to repententance, but never are we told to sit as judges over other people's conduct. The opposite is true. I myself do *judge* people's conduct in one way, based on what I know to be right and wrong from the bible and my own conscience, but I don't claim to be better than them, nor do I call condemnation down on them in the name of my religion. Jesus came to save people, not to destroy them. On the other hand, to not warn people of there sins calls condemnation down on them indirectly. But such warnings should be given out of love. I could go on and on... and on somemore. But I won't. All I can say is that people should learn more about what Christianity is *supposed* to be, before they dismiss it based on the actions of its imperfect followers. Why not throw away a dime? I throw away ten pennies all the time.
Before I go on, please know that I'm not continuing this discussion in order to "show you how wrong you are" or anything as beligerent as that. :) I enjoy discussing this stuff - especially when I can take my time to type my comments rather than being forced to come up with something intelligent to say on the spot. :) My wife is a Baptist, and gosh-darn-diddly I helped her teach her sunday school class for a few years. I harbour nothing but love for all of the goddess' children. :) Kevin Ranville wrote: Christians were never called to worship Jesus' mother or various saints. Not in the bible anyway. Of course man-made religion is full of this sort of thing. Unfortuneatly people who made up this "religion" have mislabeled it Christianity just becuase Jesus is in there somewhere, and have confused and turned people off of it for centuries. Am I misreading? Or did you just call into question the validity of Catholicism? And if so, aren't you just proving the point? Why not just accept the differences between your beliefs and Catholicism, and call it a day. This sounds like you don't like Catholics - and that's sad. Unfortunately, it can be argued that ALL religions are man-made. Just because you believe that God's will guided the hands of those who wrote the Bible, doesn't take away from the fact that humans physically wrote it. It's been argued before that religion is just something that man created in order to explain that which he couldn't. The fact is, there are many millions of Catholics who choose not to shoot or stone the Protestants that they meet on the streets and in the grocery store. The same could be said for Protestants, Hindus, Muslims, etc. Why do you feel this distaste for people simply because the classification of their beliefs is similar to your own? Kevin Ranville wrote: As I said above, true Christianity follows the precepts taught in the bible. These precepts are to be followed in the spirit of the commandment. While homosexuality is called a sin in the new and old testament, we are never called to to "hate gays". Anyone who hates a sinner for their sins is calling God's judgement upon himself, because he himself is a sinner, and there are no sins "worse than other sins" in God's eyes. If you hear people condemning anyone in the name of christianity, disregard them, they are not Christians themselves. We are commanded to *lead* people to repententance, but never are we told to sit as judges over other people's conduct.
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Jamie Hale wrote: And on and on. The whole concept of "sin" draws a line between "Christians" and "sinners", and that in itself opens up unnecessary conflict. Although this isn't exactly what you said, I want to make it clear that the Bible makes no distinction between "Christians" and "sinners". In fact the opposite is quite explicitly stated: For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, an are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. Rom 3:23-24 A person hating another person because the other person has commited sins against God is truly ironic. Its like an abusive husband hating someone who hit his wife. As a Christian I can tell you its a frequent struggle not to hate people who commit certain sins that I consider heinous, but if God loves me despite my sin, then I should try to love them. Regards, Dan
Daniel Pratt wrote: Although this isn't exactly what you said, I want to make it clear that the Bible makes no distinction between "Christians" and "sinners". In fact the opposite is quite explicitly stated: For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, an are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. Rom 3:23-24 Right. Although I think you'd find that a lot of "Christians" forget this. And that comes back to the differences between "Christianity" and "Christians". In fact, I'd hazard a guess that this concept maps quite nicely to most other belief systems. Daniel Pratt wrote: As a Christian I can tell you its a frequent struggle not to hate people who commit certain sins that I consider heinous, but if God loves me despite my sin, then I should try to love them. Well said. :) Allow me to rephrase from my own point of view. As a Pagan, it's a constant struggle not to hate people who do things that I consider heinous, but because we are children of god, I love them. Having anything but love for them means that I do not completely love god. J
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All of these things you have sited that are supposedly Christian are not. (Other than Idol worship, I suppose). Christians were never called to worship Jesus' mother or various saints. Not in the bible anyway. Of course man-made religion is full of this sort of thing. Unfortuneatly people who made up this "religion" have mislabeled it Christianity just becuase Jesus is in there somewhere, and have confused and turned people off of it for centuries. As I said above, true Christianity follows the precepts taught in the bible. These precepts are to be followed in the spirit of the commandment. While homosexuality is called a sin in the new and old testament, we are never called to to "hate gays". Anyone who hates a sinner for their sins is calling God's judgement upon himself, because he himself is a sinner, and there are no sins "worse than other sins" in God's eyes. If you hear people condemning anyone in the name of christianity, disregard them, they are not Christians themselves. We are commanded to *lead* people to repententance, but never are we told to sit as judges over other people's conduct. The opposite is true. I myself do *judge* people's conduct in one way, based on what I know to be right and wrong from the bible and my own conscience, but I don't claim to be better than them, nor do I call condemnation down on them in the name of my religion. Jesus came to save people, not to destroy them. On the other hand, to not warn people of there sins calls condemnation down on them indirectly. But such warnings should be given out of love. I could go on and on... and on somemore. But I won't. All I can say is that people should learn more about what Christianity is *supposed* to be, before they dismiss it based on the actions of its imperfect followers. Why not throw away a dime? I throw away ten pennies all the time.
Kevin, Basically I want to say well said. Kevin Ranville wrote: I myself do *judge* people's conduct in one way, based on what I know to be right and wrong from the bible and my own conscience, but I don't claim to be better than them, nor do I call condemnation down on them in the name of my religion. However most of the world can not make the distinction of hateing an individuals actions versus the individual is hated.
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bandh==general strike/ravi "There is always one more bug..." http://www.ravib.com ravib@ravib.comRavi Bhavnani wrote: bandh == general strike :omg: Ravi, I now you left the country 20 years ago, but even a 5 year old would know that a bandh now means absolute and complete violence. It has the word strike written about it somewhere, but it is a lot more than a general strike. People actually get killed in mod violences. Here in little Trivandrum, I've seen a car burned in boroad daylight and the poor owner, wife and their kid(s), just watched it with tears in their eyes and pain in their hearts or rather minds. Nish It's seven o'clock On the dot I'm in my drop top Cruisin' the streets - Oh yeah I got a real pretty, pretty little thing that's waiting for me
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Ravi Bhavnani wrote: bandh == general strike :omg: Ravi, I now you left the country 20 years ago, but even a 5 year old would know that a bandh now means absolute and complete violence. It has the word strike written about it somewhere, but it is a lot more than a general strike. People actually get killed in mod violences. Here in little Trivandrum, I've seen a car burned in boroad daylight and the poor owner, wife and their kid(s), just watched it with tears in their eyes and pain in their hearts or rather minds. Nish It's seven o'clock On the dot I'm in my drop top Cruisin' the streets - Oh yeah I got a real pretty, pretty little thing that's waiting for me
Yikes. I remember the odd strike every now and then (they used to call them "Bombay Bandh"), which was basically a holiday from school. Shops were closed and we just hung around the house 'cos we had nowhere to go. Even the darn bhelwala shut down for the day. But there was never any violence to speak of, apart from the occasional incident against a shopowner who decided to stay open against better judgement. The world is turning into an unpleasant place. :(( /ravi "There is always one more bug..." http://www.ravib.com ravib@ravib.com
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Nish - you gotta move somewhere where the download speeds are faster, the people more laid back, the sun shines and the inhabitants understand cricket. Come over to Australia ;) cheers, Chris Maunder
Not to mention, the world's best takeaway food (in Sydney)! Although Toronto seems a close second. /ravi "There is always one more bug..." http://www.ravib.com ravib@ravib.com
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Today was declared a national bandh day. I donno any equivalent word for bandh. In kerala bandhs are banned and so we had a hartal, basically the same. What a bandh/hartal means is you stay home. If you get out they attack you violently. If you take your car out, they burn it. They call this democracy. Democracy my foot! Nish It's seven o'clock On the dot I'm in my drop top Cruisin' the streets - Oh yeah I got a real pretty, pretty little thing that's waiting for me
Nish [BusterBoy] wrote: Today was declared a national bandh day. I donno any equivalent word for bandh. I think the closest word is probably "curfew", which is a period of time during which people who have had the curfew declared upon them will be punished if found outside their own home. It's not entirely clear from what you say whether a bandh/hartal is an official thing or not, although I get the impression that it is. Gavin Greig
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1/8th of a cubyte ;P Dan
:laugh:
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Before I go on, please know that I'm not continuing this discussion in order to "show you how wrong you are" or anything as beligerent as that. :) I enjoy discussing this stuff - especially when I can take my time to type my comments rather than being forced to come up with something intelligent to say on the spot. :) My wife is a Baptist, and gosh-darn-diddly I helped her teach her sunday school class for a few years. I harbour nothing but love for all of the goddess' children. :) Kevin Ranville wrote: Christians were never called to worship Jesus' mother or various saints. Not in the bible anyway. Of course man-made religion is full of this sort of thing. Unfortuneatly people who made up this "religion" have mislabeled it Christianity just becuase Jesus is in there somewhere, and have confused and turned people off of it for centuries. Am I misreading? Or did you just call into question the validity of Catholicism? And if so, aren't you just proving the point? Why not just accept the differences between your beliefs and Catholicism, and call it a day. This sounds like you don't like Catholics - and that's sad. Unfortunately, it can be argued that ALL religions are man-made. Just because you believe that God's will guided the hands of those who wrote the Bible, doesn't take away from the fact that humans physically wrote it. It's been argued before that religion is just something that man created in order to explain that which he couldn't. The fact is, there are many millions of Catholics who choose not to shoot or stone the Protestants that they meet on the streets and in the grocery store. The same could be said for Protestants, Hindus, Muslims, etc. Why do you feel this distaste for people simply because the classification of their beliefs is similar to your own? Kevin Ranville wrote: As I said above, true Christianity follows the precepts taught in the bible. These precepts are to be followed in the spirit of the commandment. While homosexuality is called a sin in the new and old testament, we are never called to to "hate gays". Anyone who hates a sinner for their sins is calling God's judgement upon himself, because he himself is a sinner, and there are no sins "worse than other sins" in God's eyes. If you hear people condemning anyone in the name of christianity, disregard them, they are not Christians themselves. We are commanded to *lead* people to repententance, but never are we told to sit as judges over other people's conduct.
All I can say is that the answers to all your questions are in the Bible. Should I go ahead and site scripture for every point you raised? Nah! My conviction is that those who seek will find. If you really want to know about all this stuff I'm talking about just pick up a bible and read. Taking that initiative will answer 1000 more questions for the average Joe than having some one throw all the answers at them.
"For I know the plans I have for you," declares the Lord , "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future. Then you will call upon me and come and pray to me, and I will listen to you. You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart." - Jeremiah 29:11-13The atheists and agnostics just haven't looked hard enough I think. Why not throw away a dime? I throw away ten pennies all the time. -
What's a cubit? :D cheers, Chris Maunder
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"Hey Noah!" "What!" "What are ya building there?" "I can't tell you - ha ha ha!" "Would you mind getting this thing outa my driveway? Seriously what are you building?" "I can't tell you - ha ha ha!" "Can you give me a hint?" "You want a hint?" "Yeah!" "How long can you tread water? Ha ha ha!" "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
Noah was called a preacher of righteousness. He probably told everyone who came by what he was doing, and they probably said, "Ha! Crazy old Noah! WooooO! When's this big FLOOOOD, Noah? I'm Soooooo scared! Eeeek we're all gonna drown! HA AH AH!" The next thing you know.... :omg: :eek: X| Why not throw away a dime? I throw away ten pennies all the time.