Scientology and other things
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L. Ron Hubbard quote: "Writing for a penny a word is ridiculous. If a man really wants to make a million dollars, the best way would be to start his own religion" Scientology is second only to christianity/islam in the mind-control department. Stay as far away from these people as possible. It was started deliberately to make money by L. Ron Hubbard after he came up with the idea in a science fiction story. The 'secrets' of this 'religion', which you only find out years after you have poured your life savings into the organisation, are that the Earth is haunted by the lost souls of the 'Xemu' people who were excess to the requirements of some alien empire and were all executed by being drugged and left to burn at the foot of one of Earths active volcanoes. The problems of mankind are, supposedly, the result of us being haunted by these lost souls and the process of 'dyanetics' is the exorcism of them from us (Getting 'Clear'). There are many different levels of being clear - they seem to add on to them once too many people reach the last level. Shortly before L. Ron died, his wife (and several others) were arrested in connection with a plot to steal documents and other things from the federal government in order to inhibit the ongoing IRS investigation into Scientology. Criminal convictions were obtained for L. Ron's wife and others, but L. Ron himself escaped the net of "justice." Eventually, Scientology and the government entered into a settlement which provided that Scientology could keep its status as a church (and the associated tax exemption privilege), pay the government a bunch of money, and the government would back off until at least January 1, 2000. Well, its 2 years past the deadline now, and if there is any good to come out of the incoming religious reich, it is that they will have absolutely no reason to keep their hands off of Scientology. There is no good reason why the USA can't do what the Germans and French have done: outlaw this cult! Oh, proof. Right. *digs through the 'cults and religion' folder of favorites* http://www.xenu.net/ http://www.sky.net/~sloth/sci/Harlan.Ellison http://home.kvalito.no/~xenu/archive/books/bfm/bfmconte.htm http://www.scientology-lies.com/ // Rock
Thanks for your opinion and the info. However a lot of what you say is based on the human side of manipulating a good thing to get money really, not on what Scientology or Dyanetics is actually about. It is like discrediting the coins that a mint creates because someone made a forgery. CLaW wrote: *digs through the 'cults and religion' folder of favorites* Just a quote I once heard: There is only one thing more ridiculous than a cult member. It is a fanatical cult-hater. I think it has something to do with people who become so caught up in debasing cults to others that their "cause" becomes a cult to themselves. Interesting stuff that :) regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Sonork ID: 100.9903 Stormfront
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Bernhard wrote: my personal problem i do have got with scientology is that they try to get people in trouble (x - drug addicts, kids with learning problems) by helping them, not saying that them that they are from scientology, and when the people "wake up" they are in the claws of them and have to pay much money to them.. Ugh that just sucks. I see this as a huge problem for any religion or belief. You get these sharks who prey on the gullible or weak by using the religions message, then they nail you. Meanwhile the religion is toddling along doing nothing wrong, yet we all think it itself is the bad thing, not the manipulative bastards who corrupt the face of the religion. One interesting point is that Scientology does not help those most in need. In fact it says that the able should help the able. Make the able more able. I think, because I am still new at all this, that L Ron Hubbard firmly believed that we should not be "wasting" our resources on the poor, the disabled, the addicted but rather we should be uplifting the uplifted even more. The idea was that by uplifting the uplifted you uplifted the general "environment" and this helps the downtrodden by making them more able indirectly. Having lived in Africa and seen billions being pumped into the hands of the poor I have to agree that helping the able is a better way to help the poor. i.e. Don't give the poor Africans the money, give it to those who are able to use the money to create more and use it wisely. The poor just go directly and buy food, the money does not build on it's own foundations, it just gets used. Bernhard wrote: first i really loath sf I will pray for you ;) I love sci-fi. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Sonork ID: 100.9903 Stormfront
i think it is pretty strange if a religious leader (l.r. hubbard) says: "the surest way to make a lot of money is to found a religion".. think this says all / most bernhard (great that you are going to pray for me.. but i don't know if god or whatever you may call it will help me..)
Sometimes I think the surest sign for intelligent life elsewhere in the universe is that none of them ever tried to contact us.
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Scientology is that the study of Scients? At this risk of upsetting people - Scientology is like all religions, praying on the gullibility of people. Except with Scientology, you can pretty much see it is all bollocks, where as the rest are at least shrouded in the mist of history. Now I'd better watch out for those Scientology lawyers :-D Michael :-)
scientology gets it's name because it became a religion to avoid the exposure it got in the us when it was just bad science. Under freedom of religion laws they are now allowed to be wrong without fear of prosecution. \ Christian The tragedy of cyberspace - that so much can travel so far, and yet mean so little.
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Michael P Butler wrote: The Dianetics concept at the heart of scientology is interesting, it's just the rest of the crap that comes within the organised religion that bothers me. Hear! Hear! That is exactly my reaction to organised religion. All the mob mentality, pontification, organisations, non-profit, do-this-do-that, harass-the-living-hell-out-of-anyone-who-misses-one-meeting, I-will-pray-for-your-soul-Paul-Watson cooky-baking-child-making-nose-in-my-business-sticking-goody-two-shoes piss me off. All of that makes me hate the thing that they say they represent. Michael P Butler wrote: The difference is that I have come to these beliefs by my own experience and thinking. I don't need no organised religion to say I am a Scientologist, I am a Christian, I am a Jedi or I am a Muslim. I am Michael Well that is the good thing from my perspective too. I have thought a lot of these things long before someone told me there was a religion on it. So when you do find something, the methodology and core beliefs of Scientology, that fits quite well with what you believe it does something to you. Even you cannot admit surely that the "hey, we think and believe alike" event has no affect on you. Michael P Butler wrote: It is just that these 'religions' have been subverted throughout history by people for there own ends. Well, this is why I am asking you smart and often wise people here on CP about Scientology. I don't want to know that some daft bugger used Scientology to scam some people, I couldn't care less. I know I don't have to pay anyone or wear a white robe to be a better person. I know I don't have to attend church or be seen doing things. What I wan't to know is: The core beliefs and the methodology of Scientology, is it valid, is it real, what do you think about it, is it a good way or has it some blinding flaw which makes it unreal. What can a young person such as my self learn from it so that I can carry on stearing my own course but without having to reinvent the wheel on every thought. I don't want to be re-programmed or shove an e-meter up my arse. I want to know about the universe and my part in it. If someone says "oh, in reality you are a rock" I will just laugh and carry on with my own thinking and life. As you say, think for yourself. But there have been some smart people before us whose thoughts we can use to better our thoughts. Otherwise I and you have to start at rock botto
I think the lesson here is to learn all that is learnable - but if they ask your for your wallet or to sign anything then runaway very fast. :-D Michael :-)
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Thanks for your opinion and the info. However a lot of what you say is based on the human side of manipulating a good thing to get money really, not on what Scientology or Dyanetics is actually about. It is like discrediting the coins that a mint creates because someone made a forgery. CLaW wrote: *digs through the 'cults and religion' folder of favorites* Just a quote I once heard: There is only one thing more ridiculous than a cult member. It is a fanatical cult-hater. I think it has something to do with people who become so caught up in debasing cults to others that their "cause" becomes a cult to themselves. Interesting stuff that :) regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Sonork ID: 100.9903 Stormfront
Paul Watson wrote: Just a quote I once heard: There is only one thing more ridiculous than a cult member. It is a fanatical cult-hater. I was thinking the other day about people who have an overwhelming hate for things that don't affect their own lives. As an example, I once came across a web page by a right wing christian group that was violently opposed to masturbation -- linking it directly with an increase in crime and advocating a law to prevent it. I couldn't help but laugh. If you don't like it -- then don't do it. Another example is the hatred of homosexuals. I don't understand why I should even care what others do in privacy, as long it does not undermine general human decency. I think that in the extreme cases, it boils down to 'self-hatred by proxy'. Essentially, this involves hating and punishing others for something that one is ashamed of a subconscious interest in. "Why kill time, when you can kill yourself?" - Cabaret Voltaire
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I have folders for all of humanities moronicies. Not just cults. :) If your intrested in the actual meat of the cult, and not what people twisted it into, then check out the raw texts, and dianetic therapy. // Rock
CLaW wrote: If your intrested in the actual meat of the cult, and not what people twisted it into, then check out the raw texts, and dianetic therapy Thank you for the links :) I will go off now and start twisting them to my own world domination ends... ;) regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Sonork ID: 100.9903 Stormfront
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Paul Watson wrote: Just a quote I once heard: There is only one thing more ridiculous than a cult member. It is a fanatical cult-hater. I was thinking the other day about people who have an overwhelming hate for things that don't affect their own lives. As an example, I once came across a web page by a right wing christian group that was violently opposed to masturbation -- linking it directly with an increase in crime and advocating a law to prevent it. I couldn't help but laugh. If you don't like it -- then don't do it. Another example is the hatred of homosexuals. I don't understand why I should even care what others do in privacy, as long it does not undermine general human decency. I think that in the extreme cases, it boils down to 'self-hatred by proxy'. Essentially, this involves hating and punishing others for something that one is ashamed of a subconscious interest in. "Why kill time, when you can kill yourself?" - Cabaret Voltaire
Daniel Ferguson wrote: I once came across a web page by a right wing christian group that was violently opposed to masturbation -- linking it directly with an increase in crime and advocating a law to prevent it. ROFL. That would be one interesting law - 99.9% of the worlds population would be guility. Michael :-)
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Paul Watson wrote: Just a quote I once heard: There is only one thing more ridiculous than a cult member. It is a fanatical cult-hater. I was thinking the other day about people who have an overwhelming hate for things that don't affect their own lives. As an example, I once came across a web page by a right wing christian group that was violently opposed to masturbation -- linking it directly with an increase in crime and advocating a law to prevent it. I couldn't help but laugh. If you don't like it -- then don't do it. Another example is the hatred of homosexuals. I don't understand why I should even care what others do in privacy, as long it does not undermine general human decency. I think that in the extreme cases, it boils down to 'self-hatred by proxy'. Essentially, this involves hating and punishing others for something that one is ashamed of a subconscious interest in. "Why kill time, when you can kill yourself?" - Cabaret Voltaire
Daniel Ferguson wrote: As an example, I once came across a web page by a right wing christian group that was violently opposed to masturbation -- linking it directly with an increase in crime and advocating a law to prevent it. I couldn't help but laugh. If you don't like it -- then don't do it. On the contrary I believe such people are so vocal precisely because, well, what do YOU think these people did when they were in the shower ? Such public self righteousness is often an expression of self guilt, in terms of desire if not action, in my opinion. Christian The tragedy of cyberspace - that so much can travel so far, and yet mean so little.
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Daniel Ferguson wrote: A can't say it more clearly or conscisely than this: "I speak religion's message clear -- and I control you" 'Mr. Self-Destruct' by Nine Inch Nails Now there is someone we all should really be listening to. Mr. Self-destruct... X| Daniel Ferguson wrote: I have a copy of 'The Prophet' by Kahlil Gibran; I think it's brilliant, but I don't think it has anything to do with scientology or organized religion in general. I never said they were related, I am just curious as I have been recommended the book by the same guy who thinks Scientology has a lot of good stuff in it. Daniel Ferguson wrote: And as for MS striving to be like Apple -- did Apple not have a GUI before MS? (and they got it from PARC or someone else..) Viewing Apple, MS, Linux, et al as an US vs THEM scenario is uninformed and immature. It is not a black and white, right vs wrong battle. They all have good and bad points. I am sure I said "on a lighter note" when I posted that about MS and Apple. Don't take it so seriously, I just thought it was a hilarious statement from an MS employee. MS employees are reknowned for, like Sun employees, not saying anything good about "the other camp." I am sure Bill will have a private chat with that vice president. :-D Daniel Ferguson wrote: "Why kill time, when you can kill yourself?" - Cabaret Voltaire Thats funny. Scientology has quite a bit about supressive personalities who end up killing themselves and how they take things down around with them. Your signature is pretty much spot on with what it says about the matter. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Sonork ID: 100.9903 Stormfront
Paul Watson wrote: I am sure I said "on a lighter note" Yes, I agree, it certainly is a funny statement from a MS exec. :-D What I wrote wasn't directed at you personally, or anything you said; it was directed at Microsycophants (my term) and Linux Zealots. Paul Watson wrote: > "Why kill time, when you can kill yourself?" - Cabaret Voltaire Thats funny. Scientology has quite a bit about supressive personalities who end up killing themselves and how they take things down around with them. Your signature is pretty much spot on with what it says about the matter. I interpret my sig differently. A friend of mine works at a video rental store and I sometimes visit him to keep him company. Some of the people renting movies seem to be looking for something to kill time until tomorrow (some movies seem to have no other purpose). I just wonder what the point of life is when they are just killing time. X| BTW, this is a good thread, Paul; it certainly got me thinking. :) "Why kill time, when you can kill yourself?" - Cabaret Voltaire
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Daniel Ferguson wrote: As an example, I once came across a web page by a right wing christian group that was violently opposed to masturbation -- linking it directly with an increase in crime and advocating a law to prevent it. I couldn't help but laugh. If you don't like it -- then don't do it. On the contrary I believe such people are so vocal precisely because, well, what do YOU think these people did when they were in the shower ? Such public self righteousness is often an expression of self guilt, in terms of desire if not action, in my opinion. Christian The tragedy of cyberspace - that so much can travel so far, and yet mean so little.
Christian Graus wrote: Such public self righteousness is often an expression of self guilt, in terms of desire if not action, in my opinion. Exactly. That's what I mean by 'self-hatred by proxy.' It's something that I've encountered often enough that I thought there should be a term for it. "Why kill time, when you can kill yourself?" - Cabaret Voltaire
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Michael P Butler wrote: At this risk of upsetting people :rolleyes: Michael P Butler wrote: Except with Scientology, you can pretty much see it is all bollocks What is bollocks about it? Come on Michael you cannot say "oh it is bollocks, but I don't know why or I won't tell you." You have to back up your statements with facts, or I might think you as a religion is bollocks and stop believing you are God. ;P Michael P Butler wrote: praying on the gullibility of people So, if all religions are bollocks, what do you believe? regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Sonork ID: 100.9903 Stormfront
Paul Watson wrote: What is bollocks about it? The fact that the earth was created by 60 or so nuclear explosions. The full (final answers) which you have to pay over $3,000,000 for (which Tom Cruise and *the bloke in Swordfish* paid for some stupid reason) were released on the internet a few years ago. I've read them (can't remember them completely), but you can get similar stories for £7.99 by buying a book by Aurthor C Clarke or Issac Asimov , so I don't see the point quite frankly. The fact that you have to pay money to go up the different stages, and people do it, just to be told complete rubbish is pathetic quite honestly, but it obviously works well from a business point of view. Cheers, Peter Pearson
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Michael P Butler wrote: My own problems with Scientology come from some of those dubious legal practises that I've read about This is a problem I have with a lot of intelligent people, myself included. We hear about some or other quite amazing thing and think "sounds cool, lets investigate." We then run into the mob surrounding the thing. Often this puts us off straight away and we link that because the mob is interested and into it, that whatever it is, is bollocks. We smarties have a big problem with organised anything, tell me I am wrong. We don't like being told what to do, or being force fed a religion. We like to be in control, have our way and not be brainwashed. I totally agree and that is a good thing, a good thing that we are not sheep. However it seems to sometimes blind us to good things. Another thing is that as with anything successful there are sharks circling it, biting off bits of it and using those bits to their own end. It seems as though Scientology has been a big victim of that. While Scientology itself is not bad, the people who say they are lead Scientologists (an oxymoron really as Scientology is a one person, one universe type of thing) use it's success to get what they want. Unfortunatley the mob often just glosses over that, clamouring to pay more money to the sharks, while us smarties see the sharks and label both the sharks and the religion as bad. It kind of reminds me of Linux. I see all these idiots surrounding it, using it, manipulating it and it makes it harder for Linux to win me over. I know Linux is not really about beating MS, I know that the daft script kiddies and Linuz zealots do not represent what Linux is about, but I also know that if I get involved with Linux other smarties will look down on me with disdain for "having fallen into such a stupid trap." Michael P Butler wrote: I'm probably more of a Bill and Ted kind of person, "Be excellent to each other". Respect nature and respect each other, as we are all made from the same basic building blocks. Dude, party on man, party on that way :-D You are not that far from Scientology with that thinking. Just FYI to all those thinking "oh god, Paul is deep in the Scientology trap". I am not, I am looking into it and finding it very insteresting. I have not paid one cent to one shark for anything Scientology related regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape T
Paul Watson wrote: It kind of reminds me of Linux. I see all these idiots surrounding it, using it, manipulating it and it makes it harder for Linux to win me over. I know Linux is not really about beating MS, I know that the daft script kiddies and Linuz zealots do not represent what Linux is about, but I also know that if I get involved with Linux other smarties will look down on me with disdain for "having fallen into such a stupid trap." This is the perfect wording for something I've felt for a long time but have never really been able to describe. Not related to Linux specifically, but generally to a lot of things. Thanks for wordalizing it for me! - Jason Do you have a Pulse? SonorkID: 100.611 Jason
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Li Mu Bai wrote: STAY AWAY FROM SCIENTOLOGY ALL THEY WANT IS YOUR MONEY Ok, this sounds harsh, but it is the truth: You did not take responsibility for your money or what you were investing it in. You gave it to some people saying they were Scientologists. No where in any of Scientology does it say "you must give us £1000 to be a better person." Nowhere. You got caught in a scam and I am sorry you did, I also am sorry that the people who scammed you gave you a bad reflection of Scientology. :-D Actually I just had a small revelation: I now know how frustrated Christians must get when us "non believers" scream that Christianity is bollocks because some dude from some Church used donations to buy himself a Beemer or Lambo. I realise now that that guy has nothing to do with Christianity or it's teachings and that linking him and the religion is rather closed minded and daft of me. Same here, linking those sharks who scammed you for £1000 to Scientology is the wrong thing to do. Just FYI to anyone interested you don't have to take Scientology tests, do their re-programming, stick yourself with e-meters or any of that to benefit from it. There is plenty of info on the web, free, and you can take it or leave it. In fact there is plenty of info straight from the horses mouth for free. Bottom line Li Mu Bai: Take responsibility for the fact that you got scammed regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Sonork ID: 100.9903 Stormfront
Paul Watson wrote: Just FYI to anyone interested you don't have to take Scientology tests, do their re-programming, stick yourself with e-meters or any of that to benefit from it. There is plenty of info on the web, free, and you can take it or leave it. In fact there is plenty of info straight from the horses mouth for free. This is the type of thing that immediately attracts me to *anything* that perhaps other people have spoken bad about or cried wolf over or what not. I accept most things I can do on my own without having to join the crowd to take part. For my own projects I'd like to go ahead in this mindset too. I'd love to know that there are people out there that I've helped, whom I'll never know, and whom I'll never know I've helped. Because through doing that I've helped myself :) - Jason Do you have a Pulse? SonorkID: 100.611 Jason
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Bernhard wrote: my personal problem i do have got with scientology is that they try to get people in trouble (x - drug addicts, kids with learning problems) by helping them, not saying that them that they are from scientology, and when the people "wake up" they are in the claws of them and have to pay much money to them.. Ugh that just sucks. I see this as a huge problem for any religion or belief. You get these sharks who prey on the gullible or weak by using the religions message, then they nail you. Meanwhile the religion is toddling along doing nothing wrong, yet we all think it itself is the bad thing, not the manipulative bastards who corrupt the face of the religion. One interesting point is that Scientology does not help those most in need. In fact it says that the able should help the able. Make the able more able. I think, because I am still new at all this, that L Ron Hubbard firmly believed that we should not be "wasting" our resources on the poor, the disabled, the addicted but rather we should be uplifting the uplifted even more. The idea was that by uplifting the uplifted you uplifted the general "environment" and this helps the downtrodden by making them more able indirectly. Having lived in Africa and seen billions being pumped into the hands of the poor I have to agree that helping the able is a better way to help the poor. i.e. Don't give the poor Africans the money, give it to those who are able to use the money to create more and use it wisely. The poor just go directly and buy food, the money does not build on it's own foundations, it just gets used. Bernhard wrote: first i really loath sf I will pray for you ;) I love sci-fi. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Sonork ID: 100.9903 Stormfront
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STAY AWAY FROM SCIENTOLOGY ALL THEY WANT IS YOUR MONEY I had the unfortunate opportunity of being involved with their group in Poole in the UK. I was not very happy at the time and they gave me a questionare and sure enough i would benefit from their re-programming. Not a nice place at all, all they wanted was my money, I gave them over a £1000 nd they still wanted handouts ****************STAY AWAY*************** The Wudan Master
Li Mu Bai wrote: I had the unfortunate opportunity of being involved with their group in Poole in the UK. That office on the second floor just off the end of the high street? :) Seen it many times, always ignored it. I see they're doing *free* something or other analysis on you and you get a free book at the moment. Cheers, Peter Pearson
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Paul Watson wrote: Just a quote I once heard: There is only one thing more ridiculous than a cult member. It is a fanatical cult-hater. I was thinking the other day about people who have an overwhelming hate for things that don't affect their own lives. As an example, I once came across a web page by a right wing christian group that was violently opposed to masturbation -- linking it directly with an increase in crime and advocating a law to prevent it. I couldn't help but laugh. If you don't like it -- then don't do it. Another example is the hatred of homosexuals. I don't understand why I should even care what others do in privacy, as long it does not undermine general human decency. I think that in the extreme cases, it boils down to 'self-hatred by proxy'. Essentially, this involves hating and punishing others for something that one is ashamed of a subconscious interest in. "Why kill time, when you can kill yourself?" - Cabaret Voltaire
Daniel Ferguson wrote: I think that in the extreme cases, it boils down to 'self-hatred by proxy'. Essentially, this involves hating and punishing others for something that one is ashamed of a subconscious interest in. I could not agree more. Now I am off to go kill some Linux Zealots, the dirty creatures, defying gods will and taking the lords name in vain and calling MS bad, the dirty creature, the sinners! *goes back to my closet and tinkers with Linux making sure nobody sees me* ;) regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Sonork ID: 100.9903 Stormfront
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Jason Hooper wrote: Let me take this opportunity to publicly express my undying love for Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars Trilogy. I should probably not even voice this but I tried reading the Mars Trilogy and I just couldn't get past more than the first hundred pages. I can't remember what frustrated me back then but it has something to do with her writing style, it just grated on every word for me. Odd huh? What other sci-fi authors or series have you enjoyed? regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Sonork ID: 100.9903 Stormfront
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Paul Watson wrote: Just FYI to anyone interested you don't have to take Scientology tests, do their re-programming, stick yourself with e-meters or any of that to benefit from it. There is plenty of info on the web, free, and you can take it or leave it. In fact there is plenty of info straight from the horses mouth for free. This is the type of thing that immediately attracts me to *anything* that perhaps other people have spoken bad about or cried wolf over or what not. I accept most things I can do on my own without having to join the crowd to take part. For my own projects I'd like to go ahead in this mindset too. I'd love to know that there are people out there that I've helped, whom I'll never know, and whom I'll never know I've helped. Because through doing that I've helped myself :) - Jason Do you have a Pulse? SonorkID: 100.611 Jason
Jason Hooper wrote: I accept most things I can do on my own without having to join the crowd to take part. I don't understand why more people are not like that. Why do they need this huge mob support to get them going? Very odd. I find you get so much more out of something if you do it yourself, find out yourself etc. The guy who got me onto all this Scientology stuff and was recommending the books also has the same viewpoint. He was reading quantum physics etc. for years and got into Budhism etc. way before he read his first L Ron Hubbard book. One day he chanced on the book and it struck him how similar Hubbards thoughts on the matter were to his own thoughts. Obviously when you find something which is very similar to your train of thought you investigate more. He is a respected businessman and as soon as the SA Church of Scientology found out he was interested they bombarded him with leaflets and tests and "pay this, do that, give us this." He just told them to back off and leave him alone. He still looks into Scientology but, and this I like, he is not some brain washed junkie giving them handouts to get to the next level or anything. I think that is the right way: Doing it your way, not being lead or pulped into doing it their way. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Sonork ID: 100.9903 Stormfront
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jan larsen wrote: It was a clash between a Theologist and one of the front persons in the Danish Scientology fraction. The Theologist read aloud some of the more funny parts of the "secret papers" that is kept private in the inner circles of Scientology (the small crowd of people who is controlling the minds and money of the outer circles), which claim that humans are some sort of lost souls from another planet (i think that Mars is the actual planet, but i do not recall). The guy from Scientology went all red in the face and claimed that the paper was NOT coming from Scientology, but at the same time he accused the Theologist's source of stealing from Scientology I had a pretty interesting discussion about this kind of thing with a smart guy the other day. Basically he took the example of Budhist monks. They sit all day, all life, chanting
omin 50 varients and most people look upon them as being highly spiritual. However Buddhas teachings and his "goal" for Buddhism has nothing to do with chanting om in 50 varients. In fact what the monks do is a polar affect of what Buddha wanted. He wanted them to take what he taught and to better their lives, simple as that. He did not want them wasting their lives chanting om, in 50 varients. This result of these monks is what is called a religious affect. The monks have become an affect of their chosen religion/belief/etc., instead of being an affect on their universe, as Buddha teaches. When that happens to the people you think are representative of a religion or belief you should realise that they are not what the religion or belief is about. The same with Islamic fundamentalists who kill in the name of Allah. Their religion does not actually preach it, yet they have twisted their belief in their minds so much that they believe what they are doing is what their religion teaches. It is pretty sad. Anyway, my point is that all these inner and outer circles in Scientology are not what Scientology is about. These people who "who is controlling the minds and money of the outer circles" have seen how they can use Scientology to their own benefit. They present themselves as representatives of Scientology, but ultimately they are not. Unfortunatley us humans are gullible and like to take the way "out", not through. So we fall into these traps quite easily. This is where the taking responsibility for your universe is key. You are responsible for not falling into the trap. You are responsible fI've read 'Dianetics' and found much in it that was worthwhile. Scientology is another kettle of fish altogether. They are a cult of money and brainwashing, and they prey on those who are reasonably intelligent and socially dysfunctional. They are a secretive lot - we uncovered a secret vault illegally constructed in the mountains where I came from. The property was patrolled by nicely dressed young men with illegal weapons. They control vast sums of money 'contributed' by their members, but the level of voluntary contribution is doubtful. I've never heard of L. Ron Hubbard, or Elron as they call him, ever studying nuclear physics - he was an engineer who wanted to be a scifi writer. As a writer he was a dismal failure, and his books are insipid, sophomoric imitations of decent science fiction. Some three years before he wrote 'Dianetics' he is reputed to have said at a cocktail party that "the only way to make money is to start a religion" but that is only hearsay. If I recall, it was Harlan Ellison who told that tale in one of his books or articles I've read... Dianetics is a subject I think worthy of study - Scientology is worth avoiding like the plague. The concepts of Dianetics, that current behavior and feelings are influenced by events contained in one's past, especially those events and traumas which occurred during periods of unconscious, has merit. The practice of 'auditing' as a means of releasing the hold on one's life that these 'engrams' maintain may even be sound psychology, but the need for an auditor to listen to the intimate details of one's sordid early life offers wonderful blackmail opportunities - rather risky for my taste!
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Paul Watson wrote: I am sure I said "on a lighter note" Yes, I agree, it certainly is a funny statement from a MS exec. :-D What I wrote wasn't directed at you personally, or anything you said; it was directed at Microsycophants (my term) and Linux Zealots. Paul Watson wrote: > "Why kill time, when you can kill yourself?" - Cabaret Voltaire Thats funny. Scientology has quite a bit about supressive personalities who end up killing themselves and how they take things down around with them. Your signature is pretty much spot on with what it says about the matter. I interpret my sig differently. A friend of mine works at a video rental store and I sometimes visit him to keep him company. Some of the people renting movies seem to be looking for something to kill time until tomorrow (some movies seem to have no other purpose). I just wonder what the point of life is when they are just killing time. X| BTW, this is a good thread, Paul; it certainly got me thinking. :) "Why kill time, when you can kill yourself?" - Cabaret Voltaire
Daniel Ferguson wrote: BTW, this is a good thread, Paul; it certainly got me thinking. Thanks, always good to have some contentious stuff floating about :-D Daniel Ferguson wrote: I just wonder what the point of life is when they are just killing time Like a lot of people they are waiting for something to happen to them instead of making something happen. Pretty sad really, though admitedly a very easy route to take in life. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Sonork ID: 100.9903 Stormfront