Scientology and other things
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Paul Watson wrote: Just FYI to anyone interested you don't have to take Scientology tests, do their re-programming, stick yourself with e-meters or any of that to benefit from it. There is plenty of info on the web, free, and you can take it or leave it. In fact there is plenty of info straight from the horses mouth for free. This is the type of thing that immediately attracts me to *anything* that perhaps other people have spoken bad about or cried wolf over or what not. I accept most things I can do on my own without having to join the crowd to take part. For my own projects I'd like to go ahead in this mindset too. I'd love to know that there are people out there that I've helped, whom I'll never know, and whom I'll never know I've helped. Because through doing that I've helped myself :) - Jason Do you have a Pulse? SonorkID: 100.611 Jason
Jason Hooper wrote: I accept most things I can do on my own without having to join the crowd to take part. I don't understand why more people are not like that. Why do they need this huge mob support to get them going? Very odd. I find you get so much more out of something if you do it yourself, find out yourself etc. The guy who got me onto all this Scientology stuff and was recommending the books also has the same viewpoint. He was reading quantum physics etc. for years and got into Budhism etc. way before he read his first L Ron Hubbard book. One day he chanced on the book and it struck him how similar Hubbards thoughts on the matter were to his own thoughts. Obviously when you find something which is very similar to your train of thought you investigate more. He is a respected businessman and as soon as the SA Church of Scientology found out he was interested they bombarded him with leaflets and tests and "pay this, do that, give us this." He just told them to back off and leave him alone. He still looks into Scientology but, and this I like, he is not some brain washed junkie giving them handouts to get to the next level or anything. I think that is the right way: Doing it your way, not being lead or pulped into doing it their way. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Sonork ID: 100.9903 Stormfront
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jan larsen wrote: It was a clash between a Theologist and one of the front persons in the Danish Scientology fraction. The Theologist read aloud some of the more funny parts of the "secret papers" that is kept private in the inner circles of Scientology (the small crowd of people who is controlling the minds and money of the outer circles), which claim that humans are some sort of lost souls from another planet (i think that Mars is the actual planet, but i do not recall). The guy from Scientology went all red in the face and claimed that the paper was NOT coming from Scientology, but at the same time he accused the Theologist's source of stealing from Scientology I had a pretty interesting discussion about this kind of thing with a smart guy the other day. Basically he took the example of Budhist monks. They sit all day, all life, chanting
omin 50 varients and most people look upon them as being highly spiritual. However Buddhas teachings and his "goal" for Buddhism has nothing to do with chanting om in 50 varients. In fact what the monks do is a polar affect of what Buddha wanted. He wanted them to take what he taught and to better their lives, simple as that. He did not want them wasting their lives chanting om, in 50 varients. This result of these monks is what is called a religious affect. The monks have become an affect of their chosen religion/belief/etc., instead of being an affect on their universe, as Buddha teaches. When that happens to the people you think are representative of a religion or belief you should realise that they are not what the religion or belief is about. The same with Islamic fundamentalists who kill in the name of Allah. Their religion does not actually preach it, yet they have twisted their belief in their minds so much that they believe what they are doing is what their religion teaches. It is pretty sad. Anyway, my point is that all these inner and outer circles in Scientology are not what Scientology is about. These people who "who is controlling the minds and money of the outer circles" have seen how they can use Scientology to their own benefit. They present themselves as representatives of Scientology, but ultimately they are not. Unfortunatley us humans are gullible and like to take the way "out", not through. So we fall into these traps quite easily. This is where the taking responsibility for your universe is key. You are responsible for not falling into the trap. You are responsible fI've read 'Dianetics' and found much in it that was worthwhile. Scientology is another kettle of fish altogether. They are a cult of money and brainwashing, and they prey on those who are reasonably intelligent and socially dysfunctional. They are a secretive lot - we uncovered a secret vault illegally constructed in the mountains where I came from. The property was patrolled by nicely dressed young men with illegal weapons. They control vast sums of money 'contributed' by their members, but the level of voluntary contribution is doubtful. I've never heard of L. Ron Hubbard, or Elron as they call him, ever studying nuclear physics - he was an engineer who wanted to be a scifi writer. As a writer he was a dismal failure, and his books are insipid, sophomoric imitations of decent science fiction. Some three years before he wrote 'Dianetics' he is reputed to have said at a cocktail party that "the only way to make money is to start a religion" but that is only hearsay. If I recall, it was Harlan Ellison who told that tale in one of his books or articles I've read... Dianetics is a subject I think worthy of study - Scientology is worth avoiding like the plague. The concepts of Dianetics, that current behavior and feelings are influenced by events contained in one's past, especially those events and traumas which occurred during periods of unconscious, has merit. The practice of 'auditing' as a means of releasing the hold on one's life that these 'engrams' maintain may even be sound psychology, but the need for an auditor to listen to the intimate details of one's sordid early life offers wonderful blackmail opportunities - rather risky for my taste!
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Paul Watson wrote: I am sure I said "on a lighter note" Yes, I agree, it certainly is a funny statement from a MS exec. :-D What I wrote wasn't directed at you personally, or anything you said; it was directed at Microsycophants (my term) and Linux Zealots. Paul Watson wrote: > "Why kill time, when you can kill yourself?" - Cabaret Voltaire Thats funny. Scientology has quite a bit about supressive personalities who end up killing themselves and how they take things down around with them. Your signature is pretty much spot on with what it says about the matter. I interpret my sig differently. A friend of mine works at a video rental store and I sometimes visit him to keep him company. Some of the people renting movies seem to be looking for something to kill time until tomorrow (some movies seem to have no other purpose). I just wonder what the point of life is when they are just killing time. X| BTW, this is a good thread, Paul; it certainly got me thinking. :) "Why kill time, when you can kill yourself?" - Cabaret Voltaire
Daniel Ferguson wrote: BTW, this is a good thread, Paul; it certainly got me thinking. Thanks, always good to have some contentious stuff floating about :-D Daniel Ferguson wrote: I just wonder what the point of life is when they are just killing time Like a lot of people they are waiting for something to happen to them instead of making something happen. Pretty sad really, though admitedly a very easy route to take in life. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Sonork ID: 100.9903 Stormfront
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jan larsen wrote: My personal impression of Scientology has been that only damned fools would join a cult based on the ridiculous mumbo jumbo that Scientology exposes. What about Scientology is mumbo jumbo? I really honestly want to know what you think about Scientology itself. I care less about what people do with Scientology or how they group themselves into mobs of Scientologists (which funnily enough Scientology is actually quite against, it often warns people about mob mentality), I want to know what people here think about what Scientology actually teaches us. jan larsen wrote: was a lot better at school than they were). On an unrelatd note IMHO how you perform in school has very little to do with how intelligent you are or the strength of your back bone. Some of the best performers in school I know are also the weakest "they are all doing it so I am going to do it" types and least successful in "real life." regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Sonork ID: 100.9903 Stormfront
Paul Watson wrote: What about Scientology is mumbo jumbo? I really honestly want to know what you think about Scientology itself. This pretty much explains everything about scientology: www.xenu.net Sonorked as well: 100.13197 jorgen
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Paul Watson wrote: What about Scientology is mumbo jumbo? I really honestly want to know what you think about Scientology itself. This pretty much explains everything about scientology: www.xenu.net Sonorked as well: 100.13197 jorgen
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: This pretty much explains everything about scientology: www.xenu.net I am not saying the guy is wrong, or that the CoS is good and all that he says is bald faced lies or anything, BUT, I think he has taken the absolute wrong tactic in discrediting the CoS. I don't know much about CoS and don't really want to know about (anything with the words "organised" and "religion" just make me start to froth at the mouth) but if I were interested the way what this guy is saying would make me think "man, does this guy have issues or what. Obviously got burnt and is now lashing out at the nearest target." He should be more "here are the facts, this is what I think, you decide." All this "The Church of Scientology is a vicious and dangerous cult that masquerades as a religion" and "The results of applying their crackpot psychotherapy (called "auditing") is to weaken the mind" is a really pathetic way of discrediting anything. As I said earlier the only thing sadder than a cultist is someone obsessed with de-basing cultists to the point where it becomes a cult to them. Obviously this guy who made xemu has reached that very sad point. Maybe he needs some religion in his life :-D regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Sonork ID: 100.9903 Stormfront
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Just curious but who here is into, knows anything about, or has an opinion on Scientology? To spark some memories Scientology was L Ron Hubbards creation and . Alternatively, has anyone read either of the following two books, if so, what did you think about them? The Fabric of Reality by David Deutsch and The PROPHET by Kahlil Gibran. On a lighter note I just read an article in the latest Time (the one with Bono on the cover saving the world, go Bono!) on page 38 about how MS and Intel are getting very much into mobile phones. The bit that had me in tears of mirth was "We want to help people create the iMac of cell phones" said by none other than the vice president of Microsoft's mobility group. :laugh: . MS striving to be like Apple... :laugh: ;) regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Sonork ID: 100.9903 Stormfront
Paul Watson wrote: Just curious but who here is into, knows anything about, or has an opinion on Scientology? No real opinions on Scientology, just fond memories... When I was attending college, I lived in a fraternity that was located directly across the street from a Scientology building (church?). We used to steal their sign a couple times a year. Each replacement sign was bigger, stronger, more securely mounted. It barely even slowed us down. Our fraternity had been doing it for years and our basement was full of their signs. Eventually we ran out of room, so we decided to return them all... at the same time... late at night! In the morning, when they awoke (there were several apartments upstairs) they found over 20 Scientology signs in the front yard! ;P
Mike Mullikin "Programming is like sex. One mistake and you have to support it for the rest of your life." - Michael Sinz
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Jason Hooper wrote: Let me take this opportunity to publicly express my undying love for Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars Trilogy. I should probably not even voice this but I tried reading the Mars Trilogy and I just couldn't get past more than the first hundred pages. I can't remember what frustrated me back then but it has something to do with her writing style, it just grated on every word for me. Odd huh? What other sci-fi authors or series have you enjoyed? regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Sonork ID: 100.9903 Stormfront
First, Kim is a unisex name and you've got the wrong gender. :) Second, I actually haven't really bothered to venture into any other sci-fi authors. James Hogan has written some nice work that I've enjoyed, and Rand Miller (from the Myst crew) has written an amazing Myst trilogy, but aside from that, not a whole lot. I can feel myself very very soon getting into another phase where I do nothing but read and go for walks, so if you have any suggestions, now would be a stellar time to plug them :) - Jason Do you have a Pulse? SonorkID: 100.611 Jason
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Paul Watson wrote: Just curious but who here is into, knows anything about, or has an opinion on Scientology? No real opinions on Scientology, just fond memories... When I was attending college, I lived in a fraternity that was located directly across the street from a Scientology building (church?). We used to steal their sign a couple times a year. Each replacement sign was bigger, stronger, more securely mounted. It barely even slowed us down. Our fraternity had been doing it for years and our basement was full of their signs. Eventually we ran out of room, so we decided to return them all... at the same time... late at night! In the morning, when they awoke (there were several apartments upstairs) they found over 20 Scientology signs in the front yard! ;P
Mike Mullikin "Programming is like sex. One mistake and you have to support it for the rest of your life." - Michael Sinz
Mike Mullikin wrote: No real opinions on Scientology, just fond memories... Dude, like, start running man, because like here come the Scientologist Special Forces and they like are going to steal our keg and rip our "Britney nekkid rullleess!!!" posters off the den wall man! Oh, and brainwash us and take all our muh-ney man. They look real pissed off about those signs dude... ;) Are fraternities the dens of sinful corruption that movies and sitcoms always seem to say they are? Or are they just a fun bunch of guys living together not doing any harm but still having some prankish fun? Just curious, we don't really have the equivalent here in SA. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Sonork ID: 100.9903 Stormfront
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Mike Mullikin wrote: No real opinions on Scientology, just fond memories... Dude, like, start running man, because like here come the Scientologist Special Forces and they like are going to steal our keg and rip our "Britney nekkid rullleess!!!" posters off the den wall man! Oh, and brainwash us and take all our muh-ney man. They look real pissed off about those signs dude... ;) Are fraternities the dens of sinful corruption that movies and sitcoms always seem to say they are? Or are they just a fun bunch of guys living together not doing any harm but still having some prankish fun? Just curious, we don't really have the equivalent here in SA. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Sonork ID: 100.9903 Stormfront
Paul Watson wrote: they like are going to steal our keg and rip our "Britney nekkid rullleess!!!" posters off the den wall man! This all happened 20 years ago - before Britney was even born, I'd imagine. I think I had a Kathy Ireland poster on my wall. :-O Paul Watson wrote: Are fraternities the dens of sinful corruption that movies and sitcoms always seem to say they are? Or are they just a fun bunch of guys living together not doing any harm but still having some prankish fun? The fraternity I lived in was pretty average from what I heard. We drank. A lot! Had the occasional outrageous party. Drank some more! Went to class most days. Drank even more. You get the picture? Basically, it wasn't as bad as "Animal House", but it was no tea party either! From what I understand, much of the drinking at US fraternities is toned down these days, but I haven't gone back since I left school. Paul Watson wrote: Just curious, we don't really have the equivalent here in SA. Just curious, is there an equivalent anywhere outside of US/Canada?
Mike Mullikin "Programming is like sex. One mistake and you have to support it for the rest of your life." - Michael Sinz
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jan larsen wrote: My personal impression of Scientology has been that only damned fools would join a cult based on the ridiculous mumbo jumbo that Scientology exposes. What about Scientology is mumbo jumbo? I really honestly want to know what you think about Scientology itself. I care less about what people do with Scientology or how they group themselves into mobs of Scientologists (which funnily enough Scientology is actually quite against, it often warns people about mob mentality), I want to know what people here think about what Scientology actually teaches us. jan larsen wrote: was a lot better at school than they were). On an unrelatd note IMHO how you perform in school has very little to do with how intelligent you are or the strength of your back bone. Some of the best performers in school I know are also the weakest "they are all doing it so I am going to do it" types and least successful in "real life." regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Sonork ID: 100.9903 Stormfront
ANY religion is mumbo-jumbo. They ask for belief without proof - adherence to dogma without explanation - and all the "rewards" come after you die so there is no real proof that there are any rewards. Also they are in the most part inclusive - we are right and they are wrong - if you believe other than that which we believe you will go to hell. Richard If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man. - Pudd'nhead Wilson's Calendar
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Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: This pretty much explains everything about scientology: www.xenu.net I am not saying the guy is wrong, or that the CoS is good and all that he says is bald faced lies or anything, BUT, I think he has taken the absolute wrong tactic in discrediting the CoS. I don't know much about CoS and don't really want to know about (anything with the words "organised" and "religion" just make me start to froth at the mouth) but if I were interested the way what this guy is saying would make me think "man, does this guy have issues or what. Obviously got burnt and is now lashing out at the nearest target." He should be more "here are the facts, this is what I think, you decide." All this "The Church of Scientology is a vicious and dangerous cult that masquerades as a religion" and "The results of applying their crackpot psychotherapy (called "auditing") is to weaken the mind" is a really pathetic way of discrediting anything. As I said earlier the only thing sadder than a cultist is someone obsessed with de-basing cultists to the point where it becomes a cult to them. Obviously this guy who made xemu has reached that very sad point. Maybe he needs some religion in his life :-D regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Sonork ID: 100.9903 Stormfront
Paul Watson wrote: I am not saying the guy is wrong, or that the CoS is good and all that he says is bald faced lies or anything, BUT, I think he has taken the absolute wrong tactic in discrediting the CoS. In Sweden the government must make all records publically available. There is no such thing as secret documents which passes our "riksdag" (= congress). A former CoS member submitted some of their holy texts to an official at the riksdag. Guess what? Anyone who wants to read it may check it out, just like you would do a book at a public library. Since CoS doesn't want anybody to read the texts, the CoS has one person from 8 am to 5 pm in that office, borrowing the book all day long so that no one else may borrow and read it. Why is it so secret? Are they afraid that the world outside may see what they are doing? If you read the OT texts and biography about Ron L Hubbard (probably the biggest hoax in the world), it's not hard to see that this organisation is only after your money. It's as simple as that. CoS is sorting out people based on phony tests. People who pay up big bucks and passes the "tests" are branded as good individuals, while everybody else are the scum of the earth. How is this different from Hitlers stories about jews, disabled individuals, homosexuals and pretty much everyone which isn't blonde? Ok, Hitler murdered innocent people. But he did it because he believe he was right. In this case, it is the thought that counts. Without thought, you don't act. I think "Operation Clambake" is a good thing. It makes people alert and forewarned about things like this. To me, this sort of information is equally as important as how neo-nazis are organized; I want to avoid these groups at all costs. Paul Watson wrote: He should be more "here are the facts, this is what I think, you decide." All this "The Church of Scientology is a vicious and dangerous cult that masquerades as a religion" and "The results of applying their crackpot psychotherapy (called "auditing") is to weaken the mind" is a really pathetic way of discrediting anything. Of course he is subjective and biased at times, but I think there is a fair amount of objective parts as well. Enough for me to stay the h*ll away from CoS :). But please, read the OT texts and the biography about Hubbard. There are facts about this. And it's scary! Sonorked as well: 100.13197 jorgen
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Paul Watson wrote: You are not that far from Scientology with that thinking. The difference is that I have come to these beliefs by my own experience and thinking. I don't need no organised religion to say I am a Scientologist, I am a Christian, I am a Jedi or I am a Muslim. I am Michael and that is all that matters to me. All religions contain the same basic concepts in the 'Be excellent to each other' message. It is just that these 'religions' have been subverted throughout history by people for there own ends. The Dianetics concept at the heart of scientology is interesting, it's just the rest of the crap that comes within the organised religion that bothers me. I'm lucky, I can think for myself but not all people are that lucky. Paul Watson wrote: Just FYI to all those thinking "oh god, Paul is deep in the Scientology trap". I am not, I am looking into it and finding it very insteresting. I have not paid one cent to one shark for anything Scientology related It's okay, you survived the VB trap - you should be able to beat the Scientology brain-washing. Even if you don't, I'm sure plenty of people will volunteer to beat it out of you :-) Michael :-)
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Paul Watson wrote: What is bollocks about it? The fact that the earth was created by 60 or so nuclear explosions. The full (final answers) which you have to pay over $3,000,000 for (which Tom Cruise and *the bloke in Swordfish* paid for some stupid reason) were released on the internet a few years ago. I've read them (can't remember them completely), but you can get similar stories for £7.99 by buying a book by Aurthor C Clarke or Issac Asimov , so I don't see the point quite frankly. The fact that you have to pay money to go up the different stages, and people do it, just to be told complete rubbish is pathetic quite honestly, but it obviously works well from a business point of view. Cheers, Peter Pearson
Peter Pearson wrote: The fact that the earth was created by 60 or so nuclear explosions. As I remember it: The galaxy was overpopulated 75 million years ago. The evil spacelord Xenu had evil psychiatrists injecting people with glycol to incapacitate them. Then they were flown to Hawaii(??) on Earth were they were stacked in a volcano. The volcano was blown up with a H-bomb, and the overpopulation solved. But the souls of the people survived, and was given false memories of christianity by the evil psyciatrists. They then clinged to the few survivors as parasites. To sum it up - Jesus is Xenu (and evil) and Hubbard is the saviour (and also the devil of christianity) Peter Pearson wrote: you can get similar stories for £7.99 by buying a book by Aurthor C Clarke or Issac Asimov I really think you give Clarke and Asimov way to little credit here. They would never come up with a plot like that... :-D /moliate
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Daniel Turini wrote: Should he kept writing SF or is he still writing it ? Hubbard is dead, so I don't think he'll be writing anything new any time soon. ;) --Mike-- Best score on the mini-putt game: 27 My really out-of-date homepage Sonork - 100.10414 AcidHelm Big fan of Alyson Hannigan and Jamie Salé.
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ANY religion is mumbo-jumbo. They ask for belief without proof - adherence to dogma without explanation - and all the "rewards" come after you die so there is no real proof that there are any rewards. Also they are in the most part inclusive - we are right and they are wrong - if you believe other than that which we believe you will go to hell. Richard If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man. - Pudd'nhead Wilson's Calendar
ANY religion is mumbo-jumbo. They ask for belief without proof Any proof of that? ;P John