The Palestinian/Israeli conflict
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I'm a little concerned about the Palestinian/Israeli conflict. It seems to be headed downhill in a bad way. I'm afraid that it could lead to a major war in the region, perhaps of nuclear proportions. I'm not really informed on the issues surrounding the conflict. A European friend of mine claims that it's all the Israelis' fault for forcing the Palestinians out of land which had been theirs for hundreds of years. He actually justifies their violent behavior by saying that they've been driven to it by the way they've been shoved out of their own land, just to make room for new housing for immigrant Jews. What do you think? Who's really at fault, and how should it be resolved? Regards, Alvaro
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I'm a little concerned about the Palestinian/Israeli conflict. It seems to be headed downhill in a bad way. I'm afraid that it could lead to a major war in the region, perhaps of nuclear proportions. I'm not really informed on the issues surrounding the conflict. A European friend of mine claims that it's all the Israelis' fault for forcing the Palestinians out of land which had been theirs for hundreds of years. He actually justifies their violent behavior by saying that they've been driven to it by the way they've been shoved out of their own land, just to make room for new housing for immigrant Jews. What do you think? Who's really at fault, and how should it be resolved? Regards, Alvaro
Can open... worms everywhere... Jon Sagara "Left-handed nunchakus!"
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I'm a little concerned about the Palestinian/Israeli conflict. It seems to be headed downhill in a bad way. I'm afraid that it could lead to a major war in the region, perhaps of nuclear proportions. I'm not really informed on the issues surrounding the conflict. A European friend of mine claims that it's all the Israelis' fault for forcing the Palestinians out of land which had been theirs for hundreds of years. He actually justifies their violent behavior by saying that they've been driven to it by the way they've been shoved out of their own land, just to make room for new housing for immigrant Jews. What do you think? Who's really at fault, and how should it be resolved? Regards, Alvaro
What a way to start a flame war... I have a Jewish friend that will tell you exactly the opposite - The Israelis settled in a sparsely populated area, and have been bending over backwards to try and make peace with the Palestinians. They have fought several major wars in the past 55 years. I don't think anything will be resolved soon.
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What a way to start a flame war... I have a Jewish friend that will tell you exactly the opposite - The Israelis settled in a sparsely populated area, and have been bending over backwards to try and make peace with the Palestinians. They have fought several major wars in the past 55 years. I don't think anything will be resolved soon.
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What a way to start a flame war... I have a Jewish friend that will tell you exactly the opposite - The Israelis settled in a sparsely populated area, and have been bending over backwards to try and make peace with the Palestinians. They have fought several major wars in the past 55 years. I don't think anything will be resolved soon.
Its a good idea to discuss it, even if the discussion can appear to become a flame war - at least we can see the issues involved. As far as I can tell, its a difficult problem and that there are sections of militant groups that are not under Palestinian control causing problems? Also, try to look at it from a different perspective as not an outsider but an insider, if in the USA shopping malls were being bombed by suicide bombers and people killed and the attacks came from Canada, what would the USA do?
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What a way to start a flame war... I have a Jewish friend that will tell you exactly the opposite - The Israelis settled in a sparsely populated area, and have been bending over backwards to try and make peace with the Palestinians. They have fought several major wars in the past 55 years. I don't think anything will be resolved soon.
I also think it is the Israeli fault. Lets says that lots of American Immigrate to Australia. Then all of a sudden they steal the Australian land and name it something else. All of a sudden, Australia is controlled by these Immigrants from America. Now, how do you think the Australians will feel ? Not very good, i think. Now, how do you think people from Palestine feel when their land has been suddenly named "Israel". I don't mind Jewish people immigrating to Palestine because Palestine is also a holy place for Jewish people but i do mind when the claim the Palestinan land theirs. :mad:
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I also think it is the Israeli fault. Lets says that lots of American Immigrate to Australia. Then all of a sudden they steal the Australian land and name it something else. All of a sudden, Australia is controlled by these Immigrants from America. Now, how do you think the Australians will feel ? Not very good, i think. Now, how do you think people from Palestine feel when their land has been suddenly named "Israel". I don't mind Jewish people immigrating to Palestine because Palestine is also a holy place for Jewish people but i do mind when the claim the Palestinan land theirs. :mad:
I don't think it's quite so simple. Yes, the Romans kicked the Israelis out in the first place ( they were there first, although they also kicked other people out before them, according to the Bible anyhow ). However, while Israels claim to the land in question seems more spurious than Palestines, the fact is that killing innocent people is a foolish way to attempt to get their land *back*. Here is a link to a site that gives some background on the whole situation. I admit to only having skimmed it, but I have read enough to believe that it is too complex an issue to decide from a distance who is at fault, black and white. I believe the Palestinian cause would have reached a conclusion more in their favour if their protest methods didn't involve blowing up planes and restaurants. Christian Secrets of a happy marriage #27: Never go to bed if you are mad at each other. It's more fun to stay up and fight.
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I don't think it's quite so simple. Yes, the Romans kicked the Israelis out in the first place ( they were there first, although they also kicked other people out before them, according to the Bible anyhow ). However, while Israels claim to the land in question seems more spurious than Palestines, the fact is that killing innocent people is a foolish way to attempt to get their land *back*. Here is a link to a site that gives some background on the whole situation. I admit to only having skimmed it, but I have read enough to believe that it is too complex an issue to decide from a distance who is at fault, black and white. I believe the Palestinian cause would have reached a conclusion more in their favour if their protest methods didn't involve blowing up planes and restaurants. Christian Secrets of a happy marriage #27: Never go to bed if you are mad at each other. It's more fun to stay up and fight.
It is very hard for an outsider to understand why them blow themselves up. If a intruder invaded your country or home, you would be just as upset. You shouldn't expect Palestinans to just watch Israelis invade them and steal their land. They have to do something. People say that Palestinan are more violent. Well, the stats show that for every Isralie killed, 9 Palestinan are killed in retaliation. Who is more violent ? It is ignorant to say that it is Palestinan.
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It is very hard for an outsider to understand why them blow themselves up. If a intruder invaded your country or home, you would be just as upset. You shouldn't expect Palestinans to just watch Israelis invade them and steal their land. They have to do something. People say that Palestinan are more violent. Well, the stats show that for every Isralie killed, 9 Palestinan are killed in retaliation. Who is more violent ? It is ignorant to say that it is Palestinan.
Although I'll never understand the concept of blowing yourself to bits in the name of god and country, I don't think the issue is so much the fact that they're doing it, but where and towards whom. The Palestinians would be getting more sympathy for their plight if they tried to keep this a military conflict. Blowing up innocent civilians is not going to earn you any points with the rest of the world.
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It is very hard for an outsider to understand why them blow themselves up. If a intruder invaded your country or home, you would be just as upset. You shouldn't expect Palestinans to just watch Israelis invade them and steal their land. They have to do something. People say that Palestinan are more violent. Well, the stats show that for every Isralie killed, 9 Palestinan are killed in retaliation. Who is more violent ? It is ignorant to say that it is Palestinan.
It is very hard for an outsider to understand why them blow themselves up. If a intruder invaded your country or home, you would be just as upset. Like I said yesterday, I would not die, nor be happy if my children chose to die, over a patch of dirt. You shouldn't expect Palestinans to just watch Israelis invade them and steal their land. They have to do something. Sarah, you're Palestinian then ? People say that Palestinan are more violent. Well, the stats show that for every Isralie killed, 9 Palestinan are killed in retaliation. Must be to know this stuff, and to be worked up enough about it that your spelling is slipping. The thing is, the Palestinians kill lots of non-Israelis as well - an 8 year old Australian girl just the other day for example. I can take whatever spin I like on statistics, and so can the people you are quoting. Dead is dead. Who is more violent ? It is ignorant to say that it is Palestinan. Who is more dead, the person killed by an Israeli, or killed by a Palestinian ? The point is moot - I said it was a complex issue, not that I support the Israelis. I also said that if these people stopped killing innocents they may get a better hearing on the world stage. It's pretty easy to characterise as uncivilised and unredeeming a people who would condone the death of a child for their cause. I'm not saying I take a one dimensional view, but I am saying it would not be hard to do. Christian Secrets of a happy marriage #27: Never go to bed if you are mad at each other. It's more fun to stay up and fight.
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I don't think it's quite so simple. Yes, the Romans kicked the Israelis out in the first place ( they were there first, although they also kicked other people out before them, according to the Bible anyhow ). However, while Israels claim to the land in question seems more spurious than Palestines, the fact is that killing innocent people is a foolish way to attempt to get their land *back*. Here is a link to a site that gives some background on the whole situation. I admit to only having skimmed it, but I have read enough to believe that it is too complex an issue to decide from a distance who is at fault, black and white. I believe the Palestinian cause would have reached a conclusion more in their favour if their protest methods didn't involve blowing up planes and restaurants. Christian Secrets of a happy marriage #27: Never go to bed if you are mad at each other. It's more fun to stay up and fight.
Christian, Thanks for the link. It's pretty enlightening and at the same time pretty confusing! But it's basically more of what I was looking for: facts. Opinions are great, but only when they're based on facts. And I just didn't have facts to base an opinion on. This is a damn complex issue. I think Sarah has inadvertendly proposed a solution: all Israelis should move to Australia and take a small piece of that. It's such a vast amount of land that I don't think the Australians would mind giving up a little piece. :) What do you think? Regards, Alvaro
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It is very hard for an outsider to understand why them blow themselves up. If a intruder invaded your country or home, you would be just as upset. Like I said yesterday, I would not die, nor be happy if my children chose to die, over a patch of dirt. You shouldn't expect Palestinans to just watch Israelis invade them and steal their land. They have to do something. Sarah, you're Palestinian then ? People say that Palestinan are more violent. Well, the stats show that for every Isralie killed, 9 Palestinan are killed in retaliation. Must be to know this stuff, and to be worked up enough about it that your spelling is slipping. The thing is, the Palestinians kill lots of non-Israelis as well - an 8 year old Australian girl just the other day for example. I can take whatever spin I like on statistics, and so can the people you are quoting. Dead is dead. Who is more violent ? It is ignorant to say that it is Palestinan. Who is more dead, the person killed by an Israeli, or killed by a Palestinian ? The point is moot - I said it was a complex issue, not that I support the Israelis. I also said that if these people stopped killing innocents they may get a better hearing on the world stage. It's pretty easy to characterise as uncivilised and unredeeming a people who would condone the death of a child for their cause. I'm not saying I take a one dimensional view, but I am saying it would not be hard to do. Christian Secrets of a happy marriage #27: Never go to bed if you are mad at each other. It's more fun to stay up and fight.
BTW, i am not Palestinian, but i support them. They kill them selves so they can kill the people who have invaded their country. They are killing innocent people because they have to or else there is no way the Israelis will leave the country or give it back to the people it belongs to. The religion "Islam" and "Christianity" both says to kill people who get in your religion's way ONLY. ONLY FOR RELIGIOUS PURPOSE. Since Israel is a holy land, it is a religious issue. In Islam, it is called Jihad. I don't know what it's called in Christianity. The Palestinan blow them selves up because they truly belive that this isn't their fault. The reason why Jewish and christians don't kill them selves is because they are either wussies or they don't truly believe that Israel is their's and know that they stole it. Sarah
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Can open... worms everywhere... Jon Sagara "Left-handed nunchakus!"
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Its a good idea to discuss it, even if the discussion can appear to become a flame war - at least we can see the issues involved. As far as I can tell, its a difficult problem and that there are sections of militant groups that are not under Palestinian control causing problems? Also, try to look at it from a different perspective as not an outsider but an insider, if in the USA shopping malls were being bombed by suicide bombers and people killed and the attacks came from Canada, what would the USA do?
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Christian, Thanks for the link. It's pretty enlightening and at the same time pretty confusing! But it's basically more of what I was looking for: facts. Opinions are great, but only when they're based on facts. And I just didn't have facts to base an opinion on. This is a damn complex issue. I think Sarah has inadvertendly proposed a solution: all Israelis should move to Australia and take a small piece of that. It's such a vast amount of land that I don't think the Australians would mind giving up a little piece. :) What do you think? Regards, Alvaro
Well, I believe all the land not fit for human habitation has been given to the Aboriginals ( I am not saying this is a *good* thing, before anyone flames me ). Actually, they live in desert now, so yeah, we've got land for them. So long as we are allowed to build a border around it and they pay us for it, they can come as far as I am concerned. I'm in Tasmania anyhow. ( An island a long way from any desert ). Christian Secrets of a happy marriage #27: Never go to bed if you are mad at each other. It's more fun to stay up and fight.
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BTW, i am not Palestinian, but i support them. They kill them selves so they can kill the people who have invaded their country. They are killing innocent people because they have to or else there is no way the Israelis will leave the country or give it back to the people it belongs to. The religion "Islam" and "Christianity" both says to kill people who get in your religion's way ONLY. ONLY FOR RELIGIOUS PURPOSE. Since Israel is a holy land, it is a religious issue. In Islam, it is called Jihad. I don't know what it's called in Christianity. The Palestinan blow them selves up because they truly belive that this isn't their fault. The reason why Jewish and christians don't kill them selves is because they are either wussies or they don't truly believe that Israel is their's and know that they stole it. Sarah
BTW, i am not Palestinian, but i support them. They kill them selves so they can kill the people who have invaded their country. They are killing innocent people because they have to or else there is no way the Israelis will leave the country or give it back to the people it belongs to. The politest way I can say this is that you are a moron. I removed the word 'bloody' in order not to be rude. You think that after all this time, tomorrow the Israelis will say 'well, those Palestinians killed another child or two yesterday, and our quota is met, we're going to leave ? If someone killed my child, I would leave to. I'd leave to kill as many of the people responsible as I could and I would happily die in the effort. So no, killing children is not EVER going to make them leave, it will just turn the world's opinion against them. The religion "Islam" and "Christianity" both says to kill people who get in your religion's way ONLY. ONLY FOR RELIGIOUS PURPOSE. Wow, you *are* ignorant, aren't you ? Jesus said to love your enemies and turn the other cheek. Since Israel is a holy land, it is a religious issue. In Islam, it is called Jihad. I don't know what it's called in Christianity. That's because you're making it up. Jesus never said anything remotely similar. The Palestinan blow them selves up because they truly belive that this isn't their fault. The reason why Jewish and christians don't kill them selves is because they are either wussies or they don't truly believe that Israel is their's and know that they stole it. *grin* so you're not Palestinian but you *are* Islamic ? The people whose fault it isn't is the children who get killed, not in the cross fire, but by the design of people who, as you say, make it their religion to kill people. Christian Secrets of a happy marriage #27: Never go to bed if you are mad at each other. It's more fun to stay up and fight.
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BTW, i am not Palestinian, but i support them. They kill them selves so they can kill the people who have invaded their country. They are killing innocent people because they have to or else there is no way the Israelis will leave the country or give it back to the people it belongs to. The religion "Islam" and "Christianity" both says to kill people who get in your religion's way ONLY. ONLY FOR RELIGIOUS PURPOSE. Since Israel is a holy land, it is a religious issue. In Islam, it is called Jihad. I don't know what it's called in Christianity. The Palestinan blow them selves up because they truly belive that this isn't their fault. The reason why Jewish and christians don't kill them selves is because they are either wussies or they don't truly believe that Israel is their's and know that they stole it. Sarah
I don't recall the Bible telling me to kill someone because of differences in religious beliefs (but then again, I'm not an avid reader of the Scriptures). Also, by your line of reasoning, if someone were to break into my home and steal my belongings (or even if they "claim jumped" my property, if you will), then in order to make things right, I should strap a ton of C4 to my chest, go to the local Edwards Cinema and let 'er rip. Slaughtering scores of innocent people would force the enemy to give everything back and promise never to do anything bad to my home again, right? No. Just for the sake of argument, say the Israelis are right: Then, to solve the problem of dealing with the Palestinians, do they institute a policy of genocide to get what "belongs" to them? Do they kill all Palestinians in order to let them know who the land really belongs to? After all, religion justifies wholesale slaughter for Israel because the Palestinians are occupying the Israeli holy land. Am I correct in my assessment? I don't claim to know the answers; I don't claim to understand the issues behind this conflict; I don't claim to be in favor of one side over the other. BUT, I do claim that the Palestinians are unjustified in their terrorist acts against the civilian population. As a previous lounger suggested, keep it in the military. Don't tell me that these killings are necessary. Whether Palestinians like it or not, the Israelis are there to stay, so the sooner they get on with their lives and learn to live with each other, the better off both sides will be. Jon Sagara "Left-handed nunchakus!"
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Christian, Thanks for the link. It's pretty enlightening and at the same time pretty confusing! But it's basically more of what I was looking for: facts. Opinions are great, but only when they're based on facts. And I just didn't have facts to base an opinion on. This is a damn complex issue. I think Sarah has inadvertendly proposed a solution: all Israelis should move to Australia and take a small piece of that. It's such a vast amount of land that I don't think the Australians would mind giving up a little piece. :) What do you think? Regards, Alvaro
hehe they can have melbourne :P Senior Test Engineer GLI Australia www.gli.com.au
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I'm a little concerned about the Palestinian/Israeli conflict. It seems to be headed downhill in a bad way. I'm afraid that it could lead to a major war in the region, perhaps of nuclear proportions. I'm not really informed on the issues surrounding the conflict. A European friend of mine claims that it's all the Israelis' fault for forcing the Palestinians out of land which had been theirs for hundreds of years. He actually justifies their violent behavior by saying that they've been driven to it by the way they've been shoved out of their own land, just to make room for new housing for immigrant Jews. What do you think? Who's really at fault, and how should it be resolved? Regards, Alvaro
I think like many things, there's enough fault to go around. Personally, I think time would be better spent finding solutions rather than pointing fingers. But pointing fingers is a very human thing to do. :) Since I'm neither Israeli nor Palestinian I can't really how it should or even could be resolved. But any resolution has to come from them. No solution is going to work until both parties are commited to it. Just my $0.02 Craig Dodge A catchy signature should appear here.