Helpful hints if you happen upon a Peace Rally

Tim Smith

Answers: 1) Because the mainstream element no longer support their desired outcome. (Have you ever noticed that the group out of power tends to be violent. In the 60s, it was the more militant liberals. These days, it is the more militant conservatives.) 2) The destruction of the state is Israel. 3) Why should we? Ignoring them while they kill us is stupid. Tim Smith Descartes Systems Sciences, Inc.

Tim Smith

Because I don't have my head stuck in the sand saying "Hear no evil, See no evil, Speak no evil." Sometimes a murderer is just a murderer. Tim Smith Descartes Systems Sciences, Inc.

Chris Losinger

who said anything about ignoring them? -c ------------------------------ Smaller Animals Software, Inc. http://www.smalleranimals.com

Paul Watson

I know Chris, I really do know it is not the best answer. But the world has it's collective back to the wall and the terrorists are not listening to our pleas. They do not appreciate the food conveys helping their own people in Afghanistan. They take international relief funds and spend it on more weapons. They threaten, plan and plot while world leaders attempt to sit around a table and discuss the problems. In Israel and Palestine the two leaders sit together, speak together and at the same time their own radical people escalate the violence. Words are of no help, relief is of no help. Sympathy will enrage them further. Money just helps their cause. Subertive tactics have simply resulted in radicals being trained even further. Outright war has not been tried, maybe it is all the terrorist will listen to. Up until the WTC event the only remaining super power did not have a large enough reason to use all it's power to stop terrorism for good. Now they do, a very big and valid reason. Living in Africa I see things like this pretty much every day. I see money sent from America and Europe to feed the poor being used to buy jet fighters, assault rifles and navy corvettes. I see the people recieving the money shake the hand of Bush himself and then come back to SA with words of hate and recrimination towards America. Most of it stems simply from an unfathomable fount of jealousy. Africa cannot understand why it flounders while America shines, so it assumes that it is Americas fault. When America helps it is not enough and Africa declares America as repressing us. I think the western world has been very patient. Now we either fight and get over it, or carry on before waiting for the next terrorist attack. It is a sad state of affairs regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "We would accomplish many more things if we did not think of them as impossible." - Chretien Malesherbes

Jonathan Gilligan

The sad fact is that without the military, the diplomatic wouldn't work. To repeat myself, I agree with you. Without the military, the diplomatic won't work. The part you miss is that experimental evidence (Israel, etc.) suggests that the military solution won't work either. If someone has no fear of flying an airplane into a tall building, why would he be scared of a soldier? We don't have anything that can be demonstrated to work against this kind of opponent. Just because diplomacy won't work does not prove that military force will work. In fact, we really don't have much of a clue at all how to deal with terrorism. I feel as though our political leaders are like bad engineers. They are copying a circuit design that hasn't worked in the past. When someone else points out that the design is known not to work, they reply, "but I can't just sit around and do nothing!" The idea of working hard to learn new techniques and find something that will work just does not occur to them. On the positive side, there are some constructive things being done. Pursuing the money trail, while boring and not photogenic, is probably one of the most effective responses. Nonetheless, I fear that we will never be able to win a war on terrorism as we can win a conventional war. Israel, which is the best in the business, has been waging military war on terrorists for decades with little success to show for their efforts. Bomb our homes and threaten our children, and, as difficult as it is, we will still love you --- Martin Luther King, Jr.

Tim Smith

who said anything about ignoring them? Doh, you did. ignoring them until we get mad enough to kill them is stupid. Tim Smith Descartes Systems Sciences, Inc.

Tim Smith

Case and point "Libya" No, it didn't get rid of terrorism, but it stopped it for a long time. I hate to really break the news to you, nothing will get rid of it for good. As far as Israel, they have not been at war with terrorism. The political climate won't let them get serious. They just sort of play at it. Tim Smith Descartes Systems Sciences, Inc.

Tomasz Sowinski

If someone has no fear of flying an airplane into a tall building, why would he be scared of a soldier? I don't care if such an individual is scared or not. The military action is not for making them scared, it's for making them dead. Tomasz Sowinski -- http://www.shooltz.com

Chris Losinger

thank you. :) -c ------------------------------ Smaller Animals Software, Inc. http://www.smalleranimals.com

Lost User

If someone has no fear of flying an airplane into a tall building, why would he be scared of a soldier? Osama bin Laden did not fly an airplane into a building. He hid in a cave while ordering a lackey to fly a plane into a building. The Taliban did not fly an airplane in a building. They treat there own women and children like cattle while harboring a coward who hides in caves after ordering lackeys to fly a plane into a building. These people are nothing but power-hungry, cowardly monsters that need to be removed from the planet. In the long run, if a coalition of countries can hunt down and eliminate the leaders of all internatinal terrorist cells, maybe we can keep their violence down to a palatable level. Don't kid yourselves, it will NEVER be completely eliminated.:(( Real programmers don't document their code. It was hard to write - it should be hard to read!

Chris Losinger

so i did. :) anyway, this discussion is going nowhere. neither of us has any interest in the point the other is trying to make. we're only interested in the fact that the other doesn't agree with us. cheers. :beer: -c ------------------------------ Smaller Animals Software, Inc. http://www.smalleranimals.com

Tim Smith

LOL... What did he say different than me that you didn't read into my messages? Tim Smith Descartes Systems Sciences, Inc.

Paul Watson

;P Old saying "It is not what you say, it is how you say it." :) Works like a dream on clients. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "We would accomplish many more things if we did not think of them as impossible." - Chretien Malesherbes

Tim Smith

LOL I have to agree. I really think as long as you are open to the military options and I am opened to continued diplomatic options (which I am), I think we are closer together than it might seem. :beer: Tim Smith Descartes Systems Sciences, Inc.

Tim Smith

My biggest problem is how terse my messages get. edit... Which is also why they don't let me close to clients. :) Tim Smith Descartes Systems Sciences, Inc.

Lost User

You have to understand that neither bin Laden nor Taliban are fully native Afghans. So Afghan people are not their people either. The taliban is just using the Afghan land to their advantage. To prevent people from talking back, they do all kinds of atrocities. I think that the Afghan people will be happy to get rid of Taliban, so that they can lead a better life. As for the blood shed issue, how many lives did America pay at Gettysberg for it being united and help becoming the country it is today. There are a lot of such examples. A few deaths, if it can cause a better tomorrow, will be acceptable to many. I guess people in military, police and fire are risking their lives .. why? because they believe that they can contribute to a collective well-being of the society. Afghans are too oppressed and their tormentors brutal. So, we will see more Afghans dying, if the world does not get rid of Taliban than if we looked for a peaceful solution. The Afghan people does not deserve this. The world should act to liberate them from the mess they are in. I think it is the duty of every democratic nation to contribute to this. -Thomas

Lost User

The attacks as we know today was planned against a large number of targets in Europe also, but I guess they had better security than US. Also US is symbolic of the capitalistic world than any other prosperous country in the world. If the attack was on capitalism, then NY is the place to strike. But, the motives are not yet known. How do we find it, unless someone speaks up? -Thomas

Paul Watson

the worst bit is that if America steps in to help the Afghan people then in a few years time everyone will be hearing the self same people ripping of America and calling them opressors. Much like in Iran and Saudi Arabia now. Anyways, no more on this topic... sometimes it gets too much and no amount of talking it out helps. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "We would accomplish many more things if we did not think of them as impossible." - Chretien Malesherbes

Eddie Velasquez

If someone has no fear of flying an airplane into a tall building, why would he be scared of a soldier? 1) Because the airplane is full of unarmed civilians, just as the tall building. :mad: 2) They don't have a chance of surviving and being captured by their enemy. :mad: We've all heard that a million monkeys on a million keyboards would eventually come up with the entire works of Shakespeare - thanks to the Internet, we now know this isn't true...

realJSOP

Ahhhhh, the root of politics (and some marriages)...