To use or not use Soap
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You just need a better understanding of context. For example, simply asking whether the death penalty is just in a programmer community website is a non sequitur. However, if you asked "Is the death penalty justified for a copy-and-paste coder?" Your post would get rated a 5 and there would be a ton of positive responses. Matt Gerrans
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I think you're putting way too much thought into this. On CP you have 2 choices for non-technical discussions. Lounge and SoapBox. To the Lounge go light material, no swear words, easy on the controversy and philosophy (ie. small talk). Stop in, for a wuick break kind of stuff. To the SoapBox go opinions, metaphysics, "dirty" jokes, politics, religion and all topics that may bring about heated discourse. That's simply how this club is set up. Nothing deep behind the reasoning really, it just fell into place that way. I'd mention the anarchy of tossing about topics willy-nilly in the Lounge, but that touches on politics, so I'll reserve my comments. ;) BW
"Get up and open your eyes. Don't let yourself ever fall down.
Get through it and learn how to fly. I know you will find a way...
Today"
-Days of the NewOK, thanks friend. :-) I guess it has to be this way if it is in the general CPian spirit. I just hoped I could learn something, which I possibly not will in a flamewar in the Soapbox. But hey, Im probably expecting too much from a programmer's site. :-) Regards, Björn Morén Stockholm, Sweden
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OK, thanks friend. :-) I guess it has to be this way if it is in the general CPian spirit. I just hoped I could learn something, which I possibly not will in a flamewar in the Soapbox. But hey, Im probably expecting too much from a programmer's site. :-) Regards, Björn Morén Stockholm, Sweden
bjoernen wrote: I just hoped I could learn something, You can. You have not given the discussion a chance in the Soapbox, and already judged us for not discussing it maturely because many felt it wouldn't do well in the Lounge. You aren't new around here, so I'm not sure why you feel this way. There are certainly heated, irrational threads in the SoapBox, but sprinkled throughout are some really thought-provoking and interesting viewpoints and discussions. By now you could have posted your question in a different forum, and quite possibly received the types of answers you were after. ON the other hand, maybe what you are looking for can't be found here. It's possible, but you won't know if you don't play along by the unwritten CP rules of engagement. BW
"Get up and open your eyes. Don't let yourself ever fall down.
Get through it and learn how to fly. I know you will find a way...
Today"
-Days of the New -
Shog9 wrote: Re: Just so you know, i'm deeply offended by your allegations... What allegations? I dont see a ;-), but I take this as a joke. :-) Shog9 wrote: That we appreciate respect for our conventions? That most of this has been discussed and fought out in years past, and the "rules" as they are have been more or less agreed on? "The Lounge is a place where you can discuss anything that takes your fancy. If you just want to laze about and discuss things that don't quite fit elsewhere, then this is the place. Posting Guideline: The Lounge is rated PG. If you're about to post something you wouldn't want your kid sister to read then don't post it." Maybe it's a cultural difference that made me interpret the guidelines different from you guys, maybe it's something else. I dont really care that much to make a big deal out of it. But I still find it disturbing that people are offended by the topic. :-) Shog9 wrote: One man's mature, respectfum answer may be a grave insult to all important beliefs of another. Perhaps a slight exaggeration? ;-) So when are we all gonna learn something interesting about eachother, when we tiptoe around all the time? Shog9 wrote: Maybe i feel like discussing deep, controversial stuff, maybe i don't - that's my decision, not yours. What a suprise that this became such an issue. I'm not offended or excited or anything, I'm just surprised that people find certain topics to be so controvercial that they dont fit into a place like the Lounge. Honestly, I thought the main difference between the Lounge and the Soapbox was the tone, not the issues. Regards, Björn Morén Stockholm, Sweden
bjoernen wrote: Honestly, I thought the main difference between the Lounge and the Soapbox was the tone, not the issues. Mostly true. Some issues have proven to nearly always incite a certain tone however, and so they tend to be encouraged to reside in The Soapbox. bjoernen wrote: What allegations? I dont see a ;), but I take this as a joke. Here's an extra one for next time: ;) ;)
You left me high and dry and changed me You lied to me and now i’m angry**...** -
bjoernen wrote: Is it my responsibility to anticipate what material other people may want to refer to? Well, yes. As I said before, the lounge is very lightly moderated--in fact, the only moderation I've ever seen is for one of the admins to say that the post belongs in the SB, if others haven't said so already. bjoernen wrote: By using the Lounge for the topic I wanted to set the general tone of the discussion. I see. OK. Therefore the responses would have to be moderated as well. However, I think that would result in people not being able to express how they really feel/think about a topic. It doesn't have to be flames or bad language, etc. A person may have personal experience with the subject that ends up being inappropriate for the lounge. bjoernen wrote: but I get the sense that you are referring to my original post about death penalty. I meant in the general case. The death penalty, as a specific case, and as I mentioned before, is topic that can involve religion, politics, personal beliefs, etc., and those responses might be non-lounge appropriate. The same applies for the general case too, though. bjoernen wrote: I dont find it meaningful to discuss methods of execution. Well, you don't, but others may feel that it is critical to the discussion. By posting in the lounge, I would say that, while you get moderated responses, you also don't get all the opinions that people have on the subject, which may be very valid opinions. bjoernen wrote: Are CPians shallow? Sometimes. Usually not. People are people, and sometimes they will respond with humor, or with strong emotions, or sometimes they feel like a flippant response, and sometimes a very serious, well thought out response. If you make a post with as large a readership as CP has, you can expect a variety of responses. Diversity is wonderful, but it is something that takes a bit of consciousness to digest. bjoernen wrote: Afraid of conflicts? Hah! Are you kidding? Not that I've ever noticed. bjoernen wrote: Unable to respond in a respectful way? Respect is given for those that show respect. Whether on a CP forum or anywhere else. I'm not implying that you aren't being respectful, I'm just saying that it's a two way street. bjoernen wrote: Have trouble with explicit des
How frustrating. CP ate my homework, err, my reply. A concentrated version will do for now: Marc Clifton wrote: What opinion are you forming about CPians? Is discussing a controvercial subject offensive in itself? I think some people here believes so. Thats disturbing about those individuals. The discussion about death penalty didn't even get started, and still you and others are speculating about the outcome, and why posters will not be able to express themselves. It's just speculation! Since everyone knew the rules of conduct for the Lounge, what is there to worry about? So it must be that the subject is offensive in itself. Sorry but I dont know any topic that is offensive in itself, as little as I know any topic that cant be joked about. I think you are taking yourselves too seriously. But dont worry, I dont feel angry and I hope no one else feels offended. I'm just here for the discussion and to learn. :-) Regards, Björn Morén Stockholm, Sweden
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bjoernen wrote: I just hoped I could learn something, You can. You have not given the discussion a chance in the Soapbox, and already judged us for not discussing it maturely because many felt it wouldn't do well in the Lounge. You aren't new around here, so I'm not sure why you feel this way. There are certainly heated, irrational threads in the SoapBox, but sprinkled throughout are some really thought-provoking and interesting viewpoints and discussions. By now you could have posted your question in a different forum, and quite possibly received the types of answers you were after. ON the other hand, maybe what you are looking for can't be found here. It's possible, but you won't know if you don't play along by the unwritten CP rules of engagement. BW
"Get up and open your eyes. Don't let yourself ever fall down.
Get through it and learn how to fly. I know you will find a way...
Today"
-Days of the NewThe topic of death penalty is not nearly as interesting as the outcome of this little discussion about Lounge conduct. People surprised me pretty much here, and I learned something. :-) BTW, I know that I can be challenging some times, but I never thought I was offensive. Am I offensive? From the posts I get feeling that people find me offensive. brianwelsch wrote: You have not given the discussion a chance in the Soapbox, and already judged us for not discussing it maturely because many felt it wouldn't do well in the Lounge. You aren't new around here, so I'm not sure why you feel this way. Not entierly true. I dont blame you for not discussing the topic. Zero replies would have been fine. Of course I respect that people have different tastes. I'm just reacting to the Soapbox label. Regards, Björn Morén Stockholm, Sweden
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The topic of death penalty is not nearly as interesting as the outcome of this little discussion about Lounge conduct. People surprised me pretty much here, and I learned something. :-) BTW, I know that I can be challenging some times, but I never thought I was offensive. Am I offensive? From the posts I get feeling that people find me offensive. brianwelsch wrote: You have not given the discussion a chance in the Soapbox, and already judged us for not discussing it maturely because many felt it wouldn't do well in the Lounge. You aren't new around here, so I'm not sure why you feel this way. Not entierly true. I dont blame you for not discussing the topic. Zero replies would have been fine. Of course I respect that people have different tastes. I'm just reacting to the Soapbox label. Regards, Björn Morén Stockholm, Sweden
bjoernen wrote: Am I offensive? You come across a bit stubborn about the Soapbox / Lounge distinction, and some phrasing may have a rough edge to them*, but I don't think you're offensive. bjoernen wrote: I'm just reacting to the Soapbox label. And know that I think about it, the discussion of what belongs in which forum actually should be in the Soapbox. ;P bjoernen wrote: Zero replies would have been fine True, but redirecting the thread shows there may have been some interest. If noone replied because they felt it was 'misplaced' would you have thought, "Hmmm...no interest here...perhaps I'd fare better in the Soapbox"? In any case, the whole issue has been so overanalyzed and blown out of proportion that the original post is hardly the topic anymore anyway. :rolleyes: *For example, saying you find people disturbing might rub them the wrong way. You might find it curious that a distinction between forums has been so defined here, but inferring the distinction reflects something fundamentally wrong with the population here won't be taken too well. I don't think you meant that way, but I think it could have been taken that way. BW
"Get up and open your eyes. Don't let yourself ever fall down.
Get through it and learn how to fly. I know you will find a way...
Today"
-Days of the New -
How frustrating. CP ate my homework, err, my reply. A concentrated version will do for now: Marc Clifton wrote: What opinion are you forming about CPians? Is discussing a controvercial subject offensive in itself? I think some people here believes so. Thats disturbing about those individuals. The discussion about death penalty didn't even get started, and still you and others are speculating about the outcome, and why posters will not be able to express themselves. It's just speculation! Since everyone knew the rules of conduct for the Lounge, what is there to worry about? So it must be that the subject is offensive in itself. Sorry but I dont know any topic that is offensive in itself, as little as I know any topic that cant be joked about. I think you are taking yourselves too seriously. But dont worry, I dont feel angry and I hope no one else feels offended. I'm just here for the discussion and to learn. :-) Regards, Björn Morén Stockholm, Sweden
bjoernen wrote: CP ate my homework, err, my reply. I religiously copy my post into the clipboard before hitting the Submit button. It took a couple "oh, crap!" for me to learn that lesson. It's really frustrating, because THE most important thing when hitting the Submit button should be to guarantee that the post gets preserved. Sigh. bjoernen wrote: So it must be that the subject is offensive in itself. Hmmm. I feel like we're crossing paths but not meeting. 1. The topic of the death penalty may be construed as offensive. 2. The topic of the death penalty is not something most people would want their kid sister to read about. Think, 8 year old. And, in advance of any "I wouldn't have a problem having my 8 year old read about the death penalty", well, I can only say, to each his own. I would have a problem. 3. Therefore, discussing the death penalty in the lounge is inappropriate 4. While bringing up the topic in the lounge will result in a certain level of moderation, the most common response you will get is "this is SB material". 5. Do not use the lounge as a moderation device for sensitive subjects. bjoernen wrote: Sorry but I dont know any topic that is offensive in itself You may not, but surely you have had enough experiences in life to realize that other people DO find some topics offensive. bjoernen wrote: I think you are taking yourselves too seriously. We have guidelines here. The guidelines are set up by the admins. They seem to be VERY LENIENT guidelines. And given the lively discussions in the SB, I find it hard to believe that anyone takes themselves or anyone else too seriously around here. If they did, they'd be dead meat. You didn't answer my question about why you haven't posted your question in the SB. But I haven't checked yet to see if you did. :) Marc MyXaml Advanced Unit Testing YAPO
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bjoernen wrote: Am I offensive? You come across a bit stubborn about the Soapbox / Lounge distinction, and some phrasing may have a rough edge to them*, but I don't think you're offensive. bjoernen wrote: I'm just reacting to the Soapbox label. And know that I think about it, the discussion of what belongs in which forum actually should be in the Soapbox. ;P bjoernen wrote: Zero replies would have been fine True, but redirecting the thread shows there may have been some interest. If noone replied because they felt it was 'misplaced' would you have thought, "Hmmm...no interest here...perhaps I'd fare better in the Soapbox"? In any case, the whole issue has been so overanalyzed and blown out of proportion that the original post is hardly the topic anymore anyway. :rolleyes: *For example, saying you find people disturbing might rub them the wrong way. You might find it curious that a distinction between forums has been so defined here, but inferring the distinction reflects something fundamentally wrong with the population here won't be taken too well. I don't think you meant that way, but I think it could have been taken that way. BW
"Get up and open your eyes. Don't let yourself ever fall down.
Get through it and learn how to fly. I know you will find a way...
Today"
-Days of the Newbrianwelsch wrote: In any case, the whole issue has been so overanalyzed and blown out of proportion that the original post is hardly the topic anymore anyway. True. I may come accross as stubborn, because this kind of issues interest me (what we may or may not discuss, morale, conduct, values, etc). Although I could go on much longer, I understand that this is hardly the place to pursue this topic anymore. So have a nice day, and see you around! :-) Regards, Björn Morén Stockholm, Sweden
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bjoernen wrote: CP ate my homework, err, my reply. I religiously copy my post into the clipboard before hitting the Submit button. It took a couple "oh, crap!" for me to learn that lesson. It's really frustrating, because THE most important thing when hitting the Submit button should be to guarantee that the post gets preserved. Sigh. bjoernen wrote: So it must be that the subject is offensive in itself. Hmmm. I feel like we're crossing paths but not meeting. 1. The topic of the death penalty may be construed as offensive. 2. The topic of the death penalty is not something most people would want their kid sister to read about. Think, 8 year old. And, in advance of any "I wouldn't have a problem having my 8 year old read about the death penalty", well, I can only say, to each his own. I would have a problem. 3. Therefore, discussing the death penalty in the lounge is inappropriate 4. While bringing up the topic in the lounge will result in a certain level of moderation, the most common response you will get is "this is SB material". 5. Do not use the lounge as a moderation device for sensitive subjects. bjoernen wrote: Sorry but I dont know any topic that is offensive in itself You may not, but surely you have had enough experiences in life to realize that other people DO find some topics offensive. bjoernen wrote: I think you are taking yourselves too seriously. We have guidelines here. The guidelines are set up by the admins. They seem to be VERY LENIENT guidelines. And given the lively discussions in the SB, I find it hard to believe that anyone takes themselves or anyone else too seriously around here. If they did, they'd be dead meat. You didn't answer my question about why you haven't posted your question in the SB. But I haven't checked yet to see if you did. :) Marc MyXaml Advanced Unit Testing YAPO
Marc Clifton wrote: You may not, but surely you have had enough experiences in life to realize that other people DO find some topics offensive. I tend to be overly open about sensitive subjects, and I understand that some people can find that annoying or offensive. I mean no harm, I just feel that we humans need to discuss sensitive subjects to be able to mature and grow. Keeping the lid on, is the very reason we dont understand eachother and that we cant bond and view a thing from multiple perspectives. Perhaps a guy is religiously pro death penalty and I'm against, and we can both appreciate eachother's opinion and grow in respect of eachother. I'm not on a crusade, I'm here to learn. This is hardly the place to be stubborn about the issue, so I rest my case. I respect your rules, and I thank everyone for the time they took with me. :-) Marc Clifton wrote: You didn't answer my question about why you haven't posted your question in the SB. I dont feel the need anymore. My focus has moved. Maybe I pick it up later. Regards, Björn Morén Stockholm, Sweden