Sad but understandable
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I have read through the previous threads and am amazed at the reactions of some of the people here. A man rushes is pursued into a tube station by police officers the day after 4 bombs are planted on public transportaion in London. He refuses officers orders to stop and hurdles the turnstiles to enter a train car full of civilians. The person is wearing clothing that many witnesses described as heavy... When he trips on the floor, the officers face a decision, do we try to grab him while he could trigger a possible explosion? Or do we take the chance react to what how the suspect has been behaving (by fleeing into a crowded train car) and use lethal force to stop him? If you were walking through an airport and several people rushed towards you with weapons drawn would you run down the nearest skyway onto an airplane? What would the same people who are criticizing the police using lethal force have said if the man had been carrying a bomb and managed to trigger it because the cops had not stopped him? What would the same people say if the London police had somehow managed to stop every commuter and subject every person to a search before allowing them to continue on their way? If people want to be upset, be angry at the people (the terrorists, or bombers, or whatever politically correct name you want to call them) who are trying to force a change in the way we all must live our lives. What happened is awful, for the man who died, his family and undoubtedly the officers involved. The officers involved in this have to live with the mistake they made, realizing they killed an innocent man who acted foolishly. Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?
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I have read through the previous threads and am amazed at the reactions of some of the people here. A man rushes is pursued into a tube station by police officers the day after 4 bombs are planted on public transportaion in London. He refuses officers orders to stop and hurdles the turnstiles to enter a train car full of civilians. The person is wearing clothing that many witnesses described as heavy... When he trips on the floor, the officers face a decision, do we try to grab him while he could trigger a possible explosion? Or do we take the chance react to what how the suspect has been behaving (by fleeing into a crowded train car) and use lethal force to stop him? If you were walking through an airport and several people rushed towards you with weapons drawn would you run down the nearest skyway onto an airplane? What would the same people who are criticizing the police using lethal force have said if the man had been carrying a bomb and managed to trigger it because the cops had not stopped him? What would the same people say if the London police had somehow managed to stop every commuter and subject every person to a search before allowing them to continue on their way? If people want to be upset, be angry at the people (the terrorists, or bombers, or whatever politically correct name you want to call them) who are trying to force a change in the way we all must live our lives. What happened is awful, for the man who died, his family and undoubtedly the officers involved. The officers involved in this have to live with the mistake they made, realizing they killed an innocent man who acted foolishly. Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?
You as a conservative should understand this better than anyone. The guy was subdued, in custody, and then shot 5 times. Is that what your conservatives call 'due process" these days? Not in my neck of the wood, bucko. Also, keep in mind these were plain clothes cops. The guy might've thought he was being persued by anti-muslim extremists. Not an unreasonable thought given the rhetoric from within and without the Mosques these past few days. I'd also like to add that these cops acted recklessly on another level too. By killing what they thought to be a potential bomber they killed an avenue of information. Makes you wonder why they killed this guy in the first place. Most people are willing to pay more to be amused than to be educated--Robert C. Savage, Life Lessons Toasty0.com Ladder League (beta) My Grandkids
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You as a conservative should understand this better than anyone. The guy was subdued, in custody, and then shot 5 times. Is that what your conservatives call 'due process" these days? Not in my neck of the wood, bucko. Also, keep in mind these were plain clothes cops. The guy might've thought he was being persued by anti-muslim extremists. Not an unreasonable thought given the rhetoric from within and without the Mosques these past few days. I'd also like to add that these cops acted recklessly on another level too. By killing what they thought to be a potential bomber they killed an avenue of information. Makes you wonder why they killed this guy in the first place. Most people are willing to pay more to be amused than to be educated--Robert C. Savage, Life Lessons Toasty0.com Ladder League (beta) My Grandkids
Toasty0 wrote: The guy was subdued, in custody, and then shot 5 Exactly where do you see that info? I see that they had jumped on him, but nowhere was the word subdued used. The guy appearently spoke very good english, and had "challenged" (whatever that means) the police and then ran. Given his clothing, it was reasonable to suspect that he might be wearing a suicide vest, one that he could detonate in an instant, even pinned to the floor, likely killing everyone nearby. The cops did the right thing. Unfortunately, an innocent person paid for their stupidiy with their life. Toasty0 wrote: Makes you wonder why they killed this guy in the first place. Sheesh! Don't you ever tire of conspiracy theories? Absolute faith corrupts as absolutely as absolute power Eric Hoffer All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. Edmund Burke
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I have read through the previous threads and am amazed at the reactions of some of the people here. A man rushes is pursued into a tube station by police officers the day after 4 bombs are planted on public transportaion in London. He refuses officers orders to stop and hurdles the turnstiles to enter a train car full of civilians. The person is wearing clothing that many witnesses described as heavy... When he trips on the floor, the officers face a decision, do we try to grab him while he could trigger a possible explosion? Or do we take the chance react to what how the suspect has been behaving (by fleeing into a crowded train car) and use lethal force to stop him? If you were walking through an airport and several people rushed towards you with weapons drawn would you run down the nearest skyway onto an airplane? What would the same people who are criticizing the police using lethal force have said if the man had been carrying a bomb and managed to trigger it because the cops had not stopped him? What would the same people say if the London police had somehow managed to stop every commuter and subject every person to a search before allowing them to continue on their way? If people want to be upset, be angry at the people (the terrorists, or bombers, or whatever politically correct name you want to call them) who are trying to force a change in the way we all must live our lives. What happened is awful, for the man who died, his family and undoubtedly the officers involved. The officers involved in this have to live with the mistake they made, realizing they killed an innocent man who acted foolishly. Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?
Amazing phenomenon, isn't it? And fascinating too observe, although a little freightening at the same time. Where does this kind of insanity come from? Frankly, I think these people actually believe in the perfection of government. It is a wierd kind of faith, and when government fails to act perfectly, they feel betrayed, and lash out far more emotioanlly than they do in response to those attacking them. They maintain a zealous commitment to an unproven and unworkable set of intellectual principles that simply blinds them to the reality which they are confronted with. It is a simple problem, you are being attacked, your neighbors are being murdered, you kill the bad guys as ruthlessly as possible. If some of your friends get caught in the crossfire, you apologize, bury them, build them a nice statue, than you have a big victory party get drunk and go on with your life without looking back or contemplating your frigging navel. "Capitalism is the source of all true freedom."
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I have read through the previous threads and am amazed at the reactions of some of the people here. A man rushes is pursued into a tube station by police officers the day after 4 bombs are planted on public transportaion in London. He refuses officers orders to stop and hurdles the turnstiles to enter a train car full of civilians. The person is wearing clothing that many witnesses described as heavy... When he trips on the floor, the officers face a decision, do we try to grab him while he could trigger a possible explosion? Or do we take the chance react to what how the suspect has been behaving (by fleeing into a crowded train car) and use lethal force to stop him? If you were walking through an airport and several people rushed towards you with weapons drawn would you run down the nearest skyway onto an airplane? What would the same people who are criticizing the police using lethal force have said if the man had been carrying a bomb and managed to trigger it because the cops had not stopped him? What would the same people say if the London police had somehow managed to stop every commuter and subject every person to a search before allowing them to continue on their way? If people want to be upset, be angry at the people (the terrorists, or bombers, or whatever politically correct name you want to call them) who are trying to force a change in the way we all must live our lives. What happened is awful, for the man who died, his family and undoubtedly the officers involved. The officers involved in this have to live with the mistake they made, realizing they killed an innocent man who acted foolishly. Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?
I posted this below, but I will post it again here so more people will see it. The news of this shooting has been twisted and spun so much over the past two days that there is an alarming amount of misinformation out there being treated as fact: - Mr. de Menezes, the man who was shot, spoke perfect English. There was never any missunderstanding over what was being said to him. Friends and family have confirmed this. - He was heard by an eye witness to say "I'm doing it" after being told to "get down" by the armed police officers, then he jumped up and started running into the tube station. - He was running onto a crowded train when he was tackled by the first of three officers. When he was on the ground, less than a second later, another officer started shooting because Mr. de Menezes's actions and clothing gave the direct impression that he was carrying explosives on his body. There was no time to stop and ask 'it looks like he might be but is he?' - when you have a man struggling and possibly preparing to detonate a bomb on a crowded train you disable him as quickly and as safely as you can. - Mr. de Menezes was not in custody at the time he was shot. He was being tackled by officers and resisting heavily. An officer opened fire because he had genuine reason to believe the man was attempting to detonate an explosive device. - The reports in the U.S. media that I have seen all talk about an officer shooting 'five high velocity rounds into his head'. This is untrue, the rounds carried by our few armed police officers are low velocity (they are desgined to bring people down by shooting in the chest but to try not to kill them), hence the need for mutliple shots to bring the man down. Head shots are sadly necessary through policy when dealing with suicide bombers. - He probably ran because he was an illegal alien. He didn't deserve to die for that but that is his likely reason. (Despite early rumours, this has now been proven.)
Ðavid Wulff Audioscrobbler :: flickr Die Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen (QT)
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I posted this below, but I will post it again here so more people will see it. The news of this shooting has been twisted and spun so much over the past two days that there is an alarming amount of misinformation out there being treated as fact: - Mr. de Menezes, the man who was shot, spoke perfect English. There was never any missunderstanding over what was being said to him. Friends and family have confirmed this. - He was heard by an eye witness to say "I'm doing it" after being told to "get down" by the armed police officers, then he jumped up and started running into the tube station. - He was running onto a crowded train when he was tackled by the first of three officers. When he was on the ground, less than a second later, another officer started shooting because Mr. de Menezes's actions and clothing gave the direct impression that he was carrying explosives on his body. There was no time to stop and ask 'it looks like he might be but is he?' - when you have a man struggling and possibly preparing to detonate a bomb on a crowded train you disable him as quickly and as safely as you can. - Mr. de Menezes was not in custody at the time he was shot. He was being tackled by officers and resisting heavily. An officer opened fire because he had genuine reason to believe the man was attempting to detonate an explosive device. - The reports in the U.S. media that I have seen all talk about an officer shooting 'five high velocity rounds into his head'. This is untrue, the rounds carried by our few armed police officers are low velocity (they are desgined to bring people down by shooting in the chest but to try not to kill them), hence the need for mutliple shots to bring the man down. Head shots are sadly necessary through policy when dealing with suicide bombers. - He probably ran because he was an illegal alien. He didn't deserve to die for that but that is his likely reason. (Despite early rumours, this has now been proven.)
Ðavid Wulff Audioscrobbler :: flickr Die Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen (QT)
Menezes was from my country, Brazil. The Brazilian television just presented some interviews with his family, from Gonzaga in the state of Minas Gerais. They say he was working legally as eletrician for 5 years in England, speaking perfect english. I don't want to rush into conclusions. Conclusions taken in the heat of a tragedy tend to harden into prejudice. Unfortunatelly the police of my country has a much worse record in brutallity than the Scotland Yard. I see it as a tragedy.
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I posted this below, but I will post it again here so more people will see it. The news of this shooting has been twisted and spun so much over the past two days that there is an alarming amount of misinformation out there being treated as fact: - Mr. de Menezes, the man who was shot, spoke perfect English. There was never any missunderstanding over what was being said to him. Friends and family have confirmed this. - He was heard by an eye witness to say "I'm doing it" after being told to "get down" by the armed police officers, then he jumped up and started running into the tube station. - He was running onto a crowded train when he was tackled by the first of three officers. When he was on the ground, less than a second later, another officer started shooting because Mr. de Menezes's actions and clothing gave the direct impression that he was carrying explosives on his body. There was no time to stop and ask 'it looks like he might be but is he?' - when you have a man struggling and possibly preparing to detonate a bomb on a crowded train you disable him as quickly and as safely as you can. - Mr. de Menezes was not in custody at the time he was shot. He was being tackled by officers and resisting heavily. An officer opened fire because he had genuine reason to believe the man was attempting to detonate an explosive device. - The reports in the U.S. media that I have seen all talk about an officer shooting 'five high velocity rounds into his head'. This is untrue, the rounds carried by our few armed police officers are low velocity (they are desgined to bring people down by shooting in the chest but to try not to kill them), hence the need for mutliple shots to bring the man down. Head shots are sadly necessary through policy when dealing with suicide bombers. - He probably ran because he was an illegal alien. He didn't deserve to die for that but that is his likely reason. (Despite early rumours, this has now been proven.)
Ðavid Wulff Audioscrobbler :: flickr Die Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen (QT)
I think we all owe these brave officers our heartfelt appreciation. They are precisely the kind of people we need out there defending our civilization. "Capitalism is the source of all true freedom."
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I posted this below, but I will post it again here so more people will see it. The news of this shooting has been twisted and spun so much over the past two days that there is an alarming amount of misinformation out there being treated as fact: - Mr. de Menezes, the man who was shot, spoke perfect English. There was never any missunderstanding over what was being said to him. Friends and family have confirmed this. - He was heard by an eye witness to say "I'm doing it" after being told to "get down" by the armed police officers, then he jumped up and started running into the tube station. - He was running onto a crowded train when he was tackled by the first of three officers. When he was on the ground, less than a second later, another officer started shooting because Mr. de Menezes's actions and clothing gave the direct impression that he was carrying explosives on his body. There was no time to stop and ask 'it looks like he might be but is he?' - when you have a man struggling and possibly preparing to detonate a bomb on a crowded train you disable him as quickly and as safely as you can. - Mr. de Menezes was not in custody at the time he was shot. He was being tackled by officers and resisting heavily. An officer opened fire because he had genuine reason to believe the man was attempting to detonate an explosive device. - The reports in the U.S. media that I have seen all talk about an officer shooting 'five high velocity rounds into his head'. This is untrue, the rounds carried by our few armed police officers are low velocity (they are desgined to bring people down by shooting in the chest but to try not to kill them), hence the need for mutliple shots to bring the man down. Head shots are sadly necessary through policy when dealing with suicide bombers. - He probably ran because he was an illegal alien. He didn't deserve to die for that but that is his likely reason. (Despite early rumours, this has now been proven.)
Ðavid Wulff Audioscrobbler :: flickr Die Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen (QT)
Thanks, David, for clearing up some of the misinformation. Reports I've heard say he was in the country legally, but given the hasty and rumor laden reporting, that could also be untrue. As you said, the man did not deserve to die, but he left the police no good choices considering the surrounding circumstances. As Stan points out, that is another bad aspect of terrorism: the fear and confusion created narrow everyone's choices. On any other day, in ordinary circumstances, he would likely still be alive. The ultimate blame for this lies squarely with the terrorist that created the environment that lead to the police making what was, in my opinion, the only choice they could. Absolute faith corrupts as absolutely as absolute power Eric Hoffer All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. Edmund Burke
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Thanks, David, for clearing up some of the misinformation. Reports I've heard say he was in the country legally, but given the hasty and rumor laden reporting, that could also be untrue. As you said, the man did not deserve to die, but he left the police no good choices considering the surrounding circumstances. As Stan points out, that is another bad aspect of terrorism: the fear and confusion created narrow everyone's choices. On any other day, in ordinary circumstances, he would likely still be alive. The ultimate blame for this lies squarely with the terrorist that created the environment that lead to the police making what was, in my opinion, the only choice they could. Absolute faith corrupts as absolutely as absolute power Eric Hoffer All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. Edmund Burke
I heard Sat afternoon that he 'may have been working illegally in Britain for up to four years'. If that has since been overturned then fair enough, but it's too late in the evening for me to go digging through it all again now. As you say, he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. I think his actions were highly stupid given what is happening in London right now, but I accept he must have had his reasons.
Ðavid Wulff Audioscrobbler :: flickr Die Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen (QT)
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I heard Sat afternoon that he 'may have been working illegally in Britain for up to four years'. If that has since been overturned then fair enough, but it's too late in the evening for me to go digging through it all again now. As you say, he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. I think his actions were highly stupid given what is happening in London right now, but I accept he must have had his reasons.
Ðavid Wulff Audioscrobbler :: flickr Die Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen (QT)
Sadly, good people sometimes make bad choices. :rose: Absolute faith corrupts as absolutely as absolute power Eric Hoffer All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. Edmund Burke
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I have read through the previous threads and am amazed at the reactions of some of the people here. A man rushes is pursued into a tube station by police officers the day after 4 bombs are planted on public transportaion in London. He refuses officers orders to stop and hurdles the turnstiles to enter a train car full of civilians. The person is wearing clothing that many witnesses described as heavy... When he trips on the floor, the officers face a decision, do we try to grab him while he could trigger a possible explosion? Or do we take the chance react to what how the suspect has been behaving (by fleeing into a crowded train car) and use lethal force to stop him? If you were walking through an airport and several people rushed towards you with weapons drawn would you run down the nearest skyway onto an airplane? What would the same people who are criticizing the police using lethal force have said if the man had been carrying a bomb and managed to trigger it because the cops had not stopped him? What would the same people say if the London police had somehow managed to stop every commuter and subject every person to a search before allowing them to continue on their way? If people want to be upset, be angry at the people (the terrorists, or bombers, or whatever politically correct name you want to call them) who are trying to force a change in the way we all must live our lives. What happened is awful, for the man who died, his family and undoubtedly the officers involved. The officers involved in this have to live with the mistake they made, realizing they killed an innocent man who acted foolishly. Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?
How many people run from cops without having a bomb under their coat? Maybe he was just without train ticket. What amazed me most when reading the postst was Uptight Republicans cheering at governments shooting people. Only commies do that.
Pandoras Gift #44: Hope. The one that keeps you on suffering.
aber.. "Wie gesagt, der Scheiss is' Therapie"
boost your code || Fold With Us! || sighist | doxygen -
How many people run from cops without having a bomb under their coat? Maybe he was just without train ticket. What amazed me most when reading the postst was Uptight Republicans cheering at governments shooting people. Only commies do that.
Pandoras Gift #44: Hope. The one that keeps you on suffering.
aber.. "Wie gesagt, der Scheiss is' Therapie"
boost your code || Fold With Us! || sighist | doxygenWho's cheering? Not condemning, and expressing gratitute for good public servants perhaps. Rising to their defense for sure, but I wouldn't say cheering. How many people run from the cops at all? (other than criminals or would be criminals, that is)? How many people wear a "heavy, padded coat" in July in London? Absolute faith corrupts as absolutely as absolute power Eric Hoffer All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. Edmund Burke
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Toasty0 wrote: The guy was subdued, in custody, and then shot 5 Exactly where do you see that info? I see that they had jumped on him, but nowhere was the word subdued used. The guy appearently spoke very good english, and had "challenged" (whatever that means) the police and then ran. Given his clothing, it was reasonable to suspect that he might be wearing a suicide vest, one that he could detonate in an instant, even pinned to the floor, likely killing everyone nearby. The cops did the right thing. Unfortunately, an innocent person paid for their stupidiy with their life. Toasty0 wrote: Makes you wonder why they killed this guy in the first place. Sheesh! Don't you ever tire of conspiracy theories? Absolute faith corrupts as absolutely as absolute power Eric Hoffer All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. Edmund Burke
Rob Graham wrote: Exactly where do you see that info? Police have previously shot men believed to be dangerous, but they have not stood over a prostrate figure and unloaded five rounds into him from point-blank range. As quoted from: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,22989-1706914,00.html[^] Most people are willing to pay more to be amused than to be educated--Robert C. Savage, Life Lessons Toasty0.com Ladder League (beta) My Grandkids
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Who's cheering? Not condemning, and expressing gratitute for good public servants perhaps. Rising to their defense for sure, but I wouldn't say cheering. How many people run from the cops at all? (other than criminals or would be criminals, that is)? How many people wear a "heavy, padded coat" in July in London? Absolute faith corrupts as absolutely as absolute power Eric Hoffer All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. Edmund Burke
You assume he knew these guys in street clothes were police and not thugs trying to rob him. Most people are willing to pay more to be amused than to be educated--Robert C. Savage, Life Lessons Toasty0.com Ladder League (beta) My Grandkids
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You assume he knew these guys in street clothes were police and not thugs trying to rob him. Most people are willing to pay more to be amused than to be educated--Robert C. Savage, Life Lessons Toasty0.com Ladder League (beta) My Grandkids
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You as a conservative should understand this better than anyone. The guy was subdued, in custody, and then shot 5 times. Is that what your conservatives call 'due process" these days? Not in my neck of the wood, bucko. Also, keep in mind these were plain clothes cops. The guy might've thought he was being persued by anti-muslim extremists. Not an unreasonable thought given the rhetoric from within and without the Mosques these past few days. I'd also like to add that these cops acted recklessly on another level too. By killing what they thought to be a potential bomber they killed an avenue of information. Makes you wonder why they killed this guy in the first place. Most people are willing to pay more to be amused than to be educated--Robert C. Savage, Life Lessons Toasty0.com Ladder League (beta) My Grandkids
Toasty0 wrote: o, keep in mind these were plain clothes cops. The guy might've thought he was being persued by anti-muslim extremists Bollox. This excuse is being trotted out by anyone and everyone at the moment. So let's just get one fact straight. IT IS ILLEGAL FOR THE POLICE OR ANY GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL TO TRY AND DETAIN OR IN ANY WAY RESTRAIN A MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC WITHIN THE UNITED KINGDOM WITHOUT CLEARLY IDENTIFYING THEMSELVES AS SUCH TO THE INDIVIDUAL INVOLVED. If it turns out that the officers in question broke standard procedure then they should and will be punished. pseudonym67 My Articles[^] "So keep that smile on your face. Have a drink to help you sleep at night. They got what they desired. We're passive in their brave new world." New Model Army
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Who's cheering? Not condemning, and expressing gratitute for good public servants perhaps. Rising to their defense for sure, but I wouldn't say cheering. How many people run from the cops at all? (other than criminals or would be criminals, that is)? How many people wear a "heavy, padded coat" in July in London? Absolute faith corrupts as absolutely as absolute power Eric Hoffer All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. Edmund Burke
Rob Graham wrote: How many people wear a "heavy, padded coat" in July in London? Someone used to a warmer climate? I found enough voices that sdounded to me as "cool, finally someone who does the right thing". I was going to gather some and post them here, but I'm to bored to do even that :/
Pandoras Gift #44: Hope. The one that keeps you on suffering.
aber.. "Wie gesagt, der Scheiss is' Therapie"
boost your code || Fold With Us! || sighist | doxygen -
Rob Graham wrote: How many people wear a "heavy, padded coat" in July in London? Someone used to a warmer climate? I found enough voices that sdounded to me as "cool, finally someone who does the right thing". I was going to gather some and post them here, but I'm to bored to do even that :/
Pandoras Gift #44: Hope. The one that keeps you on suffering.
aber.. "Wie gesagt, der Scheiss is' Therapie"
boost your code || Fold With Us! || sighist | doxygenBelieving the police did the correct thing does not mean people condone the killing of any man, innocent or not. Given the circumstances on Friday there were only two possible outcomes: kill the suspect or have the suspect kill another train full of people. The police officers involved made the correct desicion. He was not just some guy chosen at random off the street, there were strong mitigating circumstances. For the firing officer, his career is now over. We excommunicate our police officers on the rare occasion they kill someone innocent regardless of whether they did it in good faith to protect our lives - it's a necessary side effect of their Trial By Media.
Ðavid Wulff Audioscrobbler :: flickr Die Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen (QT)
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Rob Graham wrote: How many people wear a "heavy, padded coat" in July in London? Someone used to a warmer climate? I found enough voices that sdounded to me as "cool, finally someone who does the right thing". I was going to gather some and post them here, but I'm to bored to do even that :/
Pandoras Gift #44: Hope. The one that keeps you on suffering.
aber.. "Wie gesagt, der Scheiss is' Therapie"
boost your code || Fold With Us! || sighist | doxygenpeterchen wrote: I found enough voices that sounded to me as "cool, finally someone who does the right thing". Doug Goulden wrote: Sad but understandable I think Doug's title and original post says it pretty well. A few may come across rather crass but take those that write so in context of how they write. I find no one saying finally the right thing has been done. As others state, we do not feel with the information known, that the officers acted incorrectly. I am seeing plenty of condemnation "Yep typical cowboy gunslingers" that is not justified. Take a look a Wulff's first reply. The officers had little time. I have served as part of my communities citizens patrol. The conflicting information officers get and having to make life decisions in seconds is very intense. These are not officers in some small good-old-boy west Texas town, they are from a major force which I am sure has good training and constant review. I am sure this case will be thoroughly studied and action taken, probably training modification or additions. I do not mind getting old. It beats all the other options that I can think of.
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Amazing phenomenon, isn't it? And fascinating too observe, although a little freightening at the same time. Where does this kind of insanity come from? Frankly, I think these people actually believe in the perfection of government. It is a wierd kind of faith, and when government fails to act perfectly, they feel betrayed, and lash out far more emotioanlly than they do in response to those attacking them. They maintain a zealous commitment to an unproven and unworkable set of intellectual principles that simply blinds them to the reality which they are confronted with. It is a simple problem, you are being attacked, your neighbors are being murdered, you kill the bad guys as ruthlessly as possible. If some of your friends get caught in the crossfire, you apologize, bury them, build them a nice statue, than you have a big victory party get drunk and go on with your life without looking back or contemplating your frigging navel. "Capitalism is the source of all true freedom."
Stan Shannon wrote: go on with your life without looking back Much of what you say is fine. But it seams like the last line usually winds up being a slap in the face. Maybe that is your intent but it does not help in gaining agreement or understanding. No you definitly look back. A tragedy has happened, a life lost. At least what can we learn from it so we reduce the probably of a repeat. I know of no major police force in the world that does not study what happened. Yes may be not in some small west Texas (or OK) town, but definitly in any large city. So if you wish to persuade others, my 2 cents is to write your post and then delete the last sentence. I do not mind getting old. It beats all the other options that I can think of.
