Seems that the smokers have better social life.
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If the act of not smoking did something to the air that other people breath, then the rights issue would be the same. However, they aren't the same because smoking does something, while not smoking does nothing to the same air. The issue is more along the lines of "disturbing the peace" where someone is makeing a racket and bothering everyone around them, while all of those other people are doing nothing to bother the person making the racket. Just my non-judgmental 2 cents. John
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Why do you consider your right not to smoke a priority over my right to smoke. Why should I give up my right to satisfy your right and not the other way around? Just because you happened to be in majority? You choose to go in smoking section because obviously you prefer smoking person's company over the "supposed" dangers of smoke inhalation and over the inconvenience of smelling like smoke. Smoking person does not drag you in there by force, does he? I choose not to smoke around people who I care about and who do not like smoke. But I do not recognize anybody's right to tell me not to smoke. The only reason I obey by the rules of "smoking" and "non-smoking" sections in restaurants is because I've been forced to obey these rules by majority. I do not feel it is fair. Anybody who doesn't want to be around me while I am doing stuff that I choose to be doing is free to get the hell away from me.
When I started university, I had professors who would smoke in 10-seat tutorial rooms with no windows. We poor non-smokers had two lousy tables (out of about 100) in the cafeteria dedicated to non-smokers... but still the smokers would smoke there. Back in the old days, when smokers ruled the roost, they were the most inconsiderate jerks you can possibly imagine. They couldn't have cared less if they were asphixiating someone. So now... thank God... when the tables have finally turned... I say... looks good on all of you. May you freeze your butts off (excuse the pun) shivering out there by the front door. I'm all for banning smoking outdoors to... never mind indoors (which should be absolutely totally smoke free). Why? Because now that we have the political power... it's time for a some payback... hehehehehe. JM
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If the act of not smoking did something to the air that other people breath, then the rights issue would be the same. However, they aren't the same because smoking does something, while not smoking does nothing to the same air. The issue is more along the lines of "disturbing the peace" where someone is makeing a racket and bothering everyone around them, while all of those other people are doing nothing to bother the person making the racket. Just my non-judgmental 2 cents. John
There are plenty of things you non-smokers do that "disturb my peace" or even my health. I am not walking around preaching that you all should stop doing what you are doing. I will voice my opinion if I am asked or if I feel like it, but am not going to run to the government and ask to create farting and non-farting sections all over the place even if I believe that someone's farting is bad for health. If I do not like the smell - I simply walk away.
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I noticed that smokers have more fun than non-smokers at their workplaces. While we (non-smokers) spend all day working, they gather to have a cigarette and a little chat with their fellow smokers. Is this specific for California (the non-smoking state), or it happens everywhere? I vote pro drink :beer:
Nemanja Trifunovic wrote: While we (non-smokers) spend all day working, they gather to have a cigarette and a little chat with their fellow smokers Yes, that is true in the short term, but it's a concession, because while you're having fun in the Bahamas after making it big in programming, they will be dead, dead, dead. Christian After all, there's nothing wrong with an elite as long as I'm allowed to be part of it!! - Mike Burston Oct 23, 2001
Sonork ID 100.10002:MeanManOz
I live in Bob's HungOut now
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I believe cars do more to the air than cigaretts do. So if someone tells me I can't smoke, can I tell them they can't drive? Of course not. It's a majority wanting to control the minority thing. Cathy
If you said I had to suck the exhaust pipe of your car, or you wanted to pipe the exhaust into my house while you were visiting, then the analogy would be the same. You're free to kill yourself anyhow you choose, but that doesn't mean you're allowed to kill *me*. Christian After all, there's nothing wrong with an elite as long as I'm allowed to be part of it!! - Mike Burston Oct 23, 2001
Sonork ID 100.10002:MeanManOz
I live in Bob's HungOut now
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When I started university, I had professors who would smoke in 10-seat tutorial rooms with no windows. We poor non-smokers had two lousy tables (out of about 100) in the cafeteria dedicated to non-smokers... but still the smokers would smoke there. Back in the old days, when smokers ruled the roost, they were the most inconsiderate jerks you can possibly imagine. They couldn't have cared less if they were asphixiating someone. So now... thank God... when the tables have finally turned... I say... looks good on all of you. May you freeze your butts off (excuse the pun) shivering out there by the front door. I'm all for banning smoking outdoors to... never mind indoors (which should be absolutely totally smoke free). Why? Because now that we have the political power... it's time for a some payback... hehehehehe. JM
Very touching story and very disturbing opinion. Did you have an argument too and just forgot to post it?
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If you said I had to suck the exhaust pipe of your car, or you wanted to pipe the exhaust into my house while you were visiting, then the analogy would be the same. You're free to kill yourself anyhow you choose, but that doesn't mean you're allowed to kill *me*. Christian After all, there's nothing wrong with an elite as long as I'm allowed to be part of it!! - Mike Burston Oct 23, 2001
Sonork ID 100.10002:MeanManOz
I live in Bob's HungOut now
I don't want to kill you Christian. Then there would be one less person to answer my questions in the forum. Here in California, they have thrown us outside and they still complain that our smoke is bothering them out there. Hence the car exhaust analogy. The rest of the nation needs to stand up now, before it's too late. In some places they've even made it illegal to smoke outside. We are the only people they are allowed to discriminate against, so all their hatred and frustrations get focused on us. That's my take on things anyways. Cathy
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Nemanja Trifunovic wrote: While we (non-smokers) spend all day working, they gather to have a cigarette and a little chat with their fellow smokers Yes, that is true in the short term, but it's a concession, because while you're having fun in the Bahamas after making it big in programming, they will be dead, dead, dead. Christian After all, there's nothing wrong with an elite as long as I'm allowed to be part of it!! - Mike Burston Oct 23, 2001
Sonork ID 100.10002:MeanManOz
I live in Bob's HungOut now
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I don't want to kill you Christian. Then there would be one less person to answer my questions in the forum. Here in California, they have thrown us outside and they still complain that our smoke is bothering them out there. Hence the car exhaust analogy. The rest of the nation needs to stand up now, before it's too late. In some places they've even made it illegal to smoke outside. We are the only people they are allowed to discriminate against, so all their hatred and frustrations get focused on us. That's my take on things anyways. Cathy
Cathy wrote: Here in California, they have thrown us outside and they still complain that our smoke is bothering them out there. Hence the car exhaust analogy. There was a similar uproar with similar laws in Hobart causing patients who smoke to be not within a particular distance of the hospital when they smoke. In that instance I agree, it surely makes no sense for people to be allowed to smoke in a hospital, and the distance thing was keeping in line with laws that have been passed for the whole country. However, I would agree that there not letting people smoke outdoors starts to become an attack on personal liberty rather than protecting the health of others. In Australia the age you needed to be to buy smokes was 16, and it changed overnight to 18. I find it amusing that someone who developed the habit with the blessing of the law woke up the next day an addict who could no longer legally support their habit. I'm of the opinion that 50 years from now history will look back on smoking as something weird that was obviously a bad idea, but until sufficient time has passed for all living people to have no excuse not to know better, there is obviously a balancing act going on between the rights of the people in the process of dying from cancer, and those hoping to avoid it. Christian After all, there's nothing wrong with an elite as long as I'm allowed to be part of it!! - Mike Burston Oct 23, 2001
Sonork ID 100.10002:MeanManOz
I live in Bob's HungOut now
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Cathy wrote: Chris: Would it be too much to ask for a birdy-finger smiley? Bwhahaahahahahahaaa !!! I vote for that one, then I can start a collection... Christian After all, there's nothing wrong with an elite as long as I'm allowed to be part of it!! - Mike Burston Oct 23, 2001
Sonork ID 100.10002:MeanManOz
I live in Bob's HungOut now
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Michael Dunn wrote: Big fan of Alyson Hannigan. American Pie 1 & 2 did a great job of making her look like a flute-toting band dork. :) She looks a lot different on that web page, though. Jon Sagara "There are lies, damned lies and statistics." -- Mark Twain.
Hey hey. Watch the band dork stuff... I was in band for years... and you know, this one time, in band camp... ;P Matt
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There are plenty of things you non-smokers do that "disturb my peace" or even my health. I am not walking around preaching that you all should stop doing what you are doing. I will voice my opinion if I am asked or if I feel like it, but am not going to run to the government and ask to create farting and non-farting sections all over the place even if I believe that someone's farting is bad for health. If I do not like the smell - I simply walk away.
The difference is that farting is natural and everybody does it, and it is harmless to others if somewhat of an annoyance (do you just hate when someone does it in the lift?!?) whereas smoking can cause permenant damage to those who are only near to people who actualy do the smoking itself. BTW I am a non-smoker :). -- Andrew.
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Cathy wrote: Chris: Would it be too much to ask for a birdy-finger smiley? Bwhahaahahahahahaaa !!! I vote for that one, then I can start a collection... Christian After all, there's nothing wrong with an elite as long as I'm allowed to be part of it!! - Mike Burston Oct 23, 2001
Sonork ID 100.10002:MeanManOz
I live in Bob's HungOut now
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I noticed that smokers have more fun than non-smokers at their workplaces. While we (non-smokers) spend all day working, they gather to have a cigarette and a little chat with their fellow smokers. Is this specific for California (the non-smoking state), or it happens everywhere? I vote pro drink :beer:
...enough said. -Sean ---- "Vigilance With Pride"
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I bet you could! So instead of "Most Helpful" you could work towards "Most Hated", "Most Likely to Incite a Riot" or "Most Irritating" Cathy
Cathy wrote: I bet you could! So instead of "Most Helpful" you could work towards "Most Hated", "Most Likely to Incite a Riot" or "Most Irritating" Then my online life would become an effective mirror of my life away from the keyboard !!! On second thoughts, no need to strive for things I already have... Christian After all, there's nothing wrong with an elite as long as I'm allowed to be part of it!! - Mike Burston Oct 23, 2001
Sonork ID 100.10002:MeanManOz
I live in Bob's HungOut now
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The difference is that farting is natural and everybody does it, and it is harmless to others if somewhat of an annoyance (do you just hate when someone does it in the lift?!?) whereas smoking can cause permenant damage to those who are only near to people who actualy do the smoking itself. BTW I am a non-smoker :). -- Andrew.
Andrew Peace wrote: The difference is that farting is natural and everybody does it, Yes, but some do it better than others... Andrew Peace wrote: BTW I am a non-smoker Really ? I'd not have guessed ? Actually this thread brings to mind a funny story. Five of us at work, we all work in the one big area. We had for as long as I can remember joked about how stupid smoking is, a habit that wastes money, kills you and makes you smell bad ( sorry, Cathy ). Then the first time we had a social gathering, our boss pulls out the ciggies and lights up. Ooops. Christian After all, there's nothing wrong with an elite as long as I'm allowed to be part of it!! - Mike Burston Oct 23, 2001
Sonork ID 100.10002:MeanManOz
I live in Bob's HungOut now
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Michael Dunn wrote: Big fan of Alyson Hannigan. American Pie 1 & 2 did a great job of making her look like a flute-toting band dork. :) She looks a lot different on that web page, though. Jon Sagara "There are lies, damned lies and statistics." -- Mark Twain.
Jon Sagara wrote: American Pie 1 & 2 did a great job of making her look like a flute-toting band dork. that was her ? Jon Sagara wrote: She looks a lot different on that web page, though. Still not much chop IMO. Just ordinary. Christian After all, there's nothing wrong with an elite as long as I'm allowed to be part of it!! - Mike Burston Oct 23, 2001
Sonork ID 100.10002:MeanManOz
I live in Bob's HungOut now
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...enough said. -Sean ---- "Vigilance With Pride"
What is up with that? I try to be tolerant, but I think this annoys me far more than second hand smoke ever will. I hate having cigarette butts and empty packs in my yard because people throw them from their cars. And then some who do use their ashtrays decide to empty them in the middle of parking lots. If smokers want non-smokers to tolerate and understand them, throwing cig butts all over the place is *not* the way to do it. X| The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
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Hey hey. Watch the band dork stuff... I was in band for years... and you know, this one time, in band camp... ;P Matt
...this kid had some cookies, and there was this bear... (complete the band camp story) ________________ David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk "I loathe people who keep dogs. They are cowards who haven't got the guts to bite people themselves" - August Strindberg
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The difference is that farting is natural and everybody does it, and it is harmless to others if somewhat of an annoyance (do you just hate when someone does it in the lift?!?) whereas smoking can cause permenant damage to those who are only near to people who actualy do the smoking itself. BTW I am a non-smoker :). -- Andrew.
Andrew Peace wrote: The difference is that farting is natural and everybody does it, and it is harmless to others So what about if someone pipes it directly into you lungs? Or what about if you work in a baked bean testing factory? Methane can kill too you know, and with the stuff we all eat today, I would not be at all surprised to find toxic substances in our ariated faeces. X| We really could be farting each other to death. ________________ David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk "I loathe people who keep dogs. They are cowards who haven't got the guts to bite people themselves" - August Strindberg