Most Americans are hot-blood...
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Interesting reflexion, but problematic. For example,
code-frog wrote:
Any dead American to them is a job well done (or so it would seem). Does that justify hate back towards them?
The saying is actually ours and has been used to refer to some of our fellow citizens at different times throughout our history. Does it justfy their hatred towards the rest of us? As I said, problematic. "Just" response is a subjective value and retaliation can go to the end of time. It sure started at the beginning of time.
code-frog wrote:
Anyway, calling someone a hate monger seems a bit like becoming what you beheld and being content you've done right.
Actually, this is not the case. Your difficulty in deciding what to think, morally speaking, is very common and usually originates in the confusion between elaborating a description of a situation and arriving at a moral evaluation of said situation. I use "hatemongering"/"bigotry" descriptively. In particular, I am addressing the cognitive tendency to categorize, to generalize, to stereotype. I am addressing the danger associated with the dehumanizing of each single person as they are deprived of individuality by being crunched into purely conceptual entities, that is, into labelled groups. For example, as an unique individual, you may be a bachelor, democrat, left-handed; you may love your mother, cheesecake, and baseball; you may prefer mexican food and honda motorcycles; you may have a wonderful sense of humor. As a "man" (labelled by a feminist bigot) you are violent, dense, coarse, and a rapist waiting to explode. She feels entitled to speak for 3 billion human beings, and (check this out) to criminalize another 3 billion human beings. At the drop of a hat. As if there were nothing strange about it. As if it were the most normal thing in the world. In short, purely conceptual entities take any desired characteristic and in the hands of bigots can prove deadly. You say I anger them, I say they are angry already. These are people going through difficult times in their lives, often times with serious psychological problems and falling pray to political adventures. The moment that you ask a bigot to stop generalizing, they are forced to shut up. You are helping them break the circular thinking in their heads. It is the kryptonite of bigots. You may not succeed but you will make your life and that of those
I think that this kind of talk is here (right now) and I think that a lot of replies don't do a decent job of approaching both the grief of the thread starter and the frustrations of the country and it's citizens the thread starter is currently angry with. This ins't a moral problem for me. This is an information problem. I know a tiny bit more about this type of thing than you might think and I can tell you that about 80% of the facts are only known by 100% of the actual participants in the assault. The 20% the general public is allowed to know may or may not have anything to do with the 80% of the facts known by those who executed the orders they were given.
Morallity is easy to hide behind. This isn't moral.
The use of names of any type other than birth given names or terms of affection is quite likely to cause a lot of unnecessary friction and it's most certainly going to unlock emotions that might have stayed in check had the two parties involved abstained from playground tactics and instead approached the subject in a way that tried to identify facts, knowns, unknowns and assumptions.
I know for a fact that there isn't enough information present on this particular event and many others for people to form much more than purely emotional opinions and points of view. I won't commit to one view or another until I have all the information. This likely will not happen as I'm not part of the 100% group that has 80% of the knowledge. In reality only the men and women involved directly will know for sure what happened and even then many of them will wonder for years to come if they truly knew all the should have known when they executed their orders.
Anyway...
Some assembly required. Code-frog System Architects, Inc.
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I think that this kind of talk is here (right now) and I think that a lot of replies don't do a decent job of approaching both the grief of the thread starter and the frustrations of the country and it's citizens the thread starter is currently angry with. This ins't a moral problem for me. This is an information problem. I know a tiny bit more about this type of thing than you might think and I can tell you that about 80% of the facts are only known by 100% of the actual participants in the assault. The 20% the general public is allowed to know may or may not have anything to do with the 80% of the facts known by those who executed the orders they were given.
Morallity is easy to hide behind. This isn't moral.
The use of names of any type other than birth given names or terms of affection is quite likely to cause a lot of unnecessary friction and it's most certainly going to unlock emotions that might have stayed in check had the two parties involved abstained from playground tactics and instead approached the subject in a way that tried to identify facts, knowns, unknowns and assumptions.
I know for a fact that there isn't enough information present on this particular event and many others for people to form much more than purely emotional opinions and points of view. I won't commit to one view or another until I have all the information. This likely will not happen as I'm not part of the 100% group that has 80% of the knowledge. In reality only the men and women involved directly will know for sure what happened and even then many of them will wonder for years to come if they truly knew all the should have known when they executed their orders.
Anyway...
Some assembly required. Code-frog System Architects, Inc.
code-frog wrote:
I think that this kind of talk is here (right now) and I think that a lot of replies don't do a decent job of approaching both the grief of the thread starter and the frustrations of the country and it's citizens the thread starter is currently angry with. This ins't a moral problem for me. This is an information problem.
It is not an information problem from the point of view of the thread starter.
code-frog wrote:
I know a tiny bit more about this type of thing than you might think and I can tell you that about 80% of the facts are only known by 100% of the actual participants in the assault. The 20% the general public is allowed to know may or may not have anything to do with the 80% of the facts known by those who executed the orders they were given.
Even if you have 100% of the "information" on this particular event, there is also a bigger picture to consider as well. But, granted, if we were to talk about the facts somewhere other than the CP, it could be an interesting exchange.
code-frog wrote:
Morallity is easy to hide behind. This isn't moral.
As far as I can see, it is moral for pretty much everyone that has baited.
code-frog wrote:
The use of names of any type other than birth given names or terms of affection is quite likely to cause a lot of unnecessary friction and it's most certainly going to unlock emotions that might have stayed in check had the two parties involved abstained from playground tactics and instead approached the subject in a way that tried to identify facts, knowns, unknowns and assumptions.
Sure, but they haven't and, furthermore, want to draw us all in under those terms. In the real world, they already have... over and over again. I have not discussed the incident itself for I believe this is not the place to do so. My objection remains focussed on the missuse of generalization. I understand it is the most effective tool to "disarm" those that pretend to want to have a discussion when all they really want to do is to vent.
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Hi all, A story comes after my previous post, In a stary night, the US troops dropped a laser-targeted bomb to a house in California US, coz the army has intelligence about a terrorist hiding in the house(actually no one can confirm whether the intelligence is accurate or not). The house-owner, who is an innocent American, have all his 17 family members, including children, womens, killed under the attack. Fortunately, the house-owner was not in the house while the attack and survived. As most Americans are hot-blood, he stood out to blame his US government, not just for himself, he think he need to stop his government to do such thing again and again, and to stop more innocent life being lost in the future. In his belief, his government are created and run by the US citizens, and the government can only act on behalf of its citizen, so the citizens should responsible for what the government did. And US citizens should regulate what their government did. He starts to make noise about his complain, he choose to post on the codeproject forum about his belief and concern, and to arouse other americans belief also, so they can together regulate their government by making their noise louder and louder... But to his surprise.... he get many negative feedbacks from non-Americans as follow, - one Canadian response that the American should tolerate what his government did to him, coz it is just a mistake, and told him that he should allow this mistake happen again and again....coz the US government is created and run by US citizens and the army are all their childrens and go to war voluntarily. - one Pakistanian told the American to forgive his government coz US has donated a huge sum of money to Pakistan after earth quake - one Sweden advise the American should not post such silly message on American website coz the CIA will find him soon... - one Japanese said that all Americans and US government did many good things to the world before, so US government are qualified to kill their citizens by mistake again and again... - some Europeans response that the American are morons, retarded or idiots.... that's all :((
ppp001 wrote:
some Europeans response that the American are morons, retarded or idiots....
It's not americans but the authors of American foreign policy who are morons, retarded and idiots :doh:, a quick check of history confirms this X| and I am a European, woo hoo! Phil Harding.
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