Islamic terrorists fear losing control of their women.
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dext0r wrote:
here in UAE,women works from both muslim and non-muslim countries,few take viel(including non-muslims) while others wear jeans(including chubby girls from Pakistan and India) and both kinds of women hangout freely with peers
The UAE is modern and progressive society. Rushdie was speaking of Islamic extremism. As in AlQaeda, Taliban, Lashkar E Toiba etc. The ideal position on issues like this is one of moderation. A quote from an article by Amir Taheri.
Taheri wrote:
A thousand years ago Muslims could say and write things that they cannot today without being put on a death-list from a self-styled mullah somewhere. To prevent extremists from abusing its openness, Islam developed mechanisms designed to encourage moderation. The Prophet's saying, "The best position on {all} matters is a moderate one", was used to develop the concept of "excess" (ghulow) which is regarded as a sin in all matters, including, interesting to note, the worship of God.
This article was originally published in Gulf News, a UAE daily. The full text of the article is given here
many muslim states are modern and dont reflect extreemism anyway,infact noone. regarding alqeda etc,they are like any other groups ,you may easily find such groups in every country or religion and such groups are not appreciated by majority.
Mirza Ghalib wrote:
A thousand years ago Muslims could say and write things that they cannot today without being put on a death-list from a self-styled mullah somewhere.
yes its true,there are severel illetrate mullahs in muslim society,here illetrate means who don`t have basic idea of a religioin`s teaching and they like to interpretate things literally rather going into depth. And this is not among muslim society only,history has told us about orthodox Christian preiests who had rejected Galileo`s theory long time back,because according to them,it was against their bible as they were used to follow Copernicus's theory.
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many muslim states are modern and dont reflect extreemism anyway,infact noone. regarding alqeda etc,they are like any other groups ,you may easily find such groups in every country or religion and such groups are not appreciated by majority.
Mirza Ghalib wrote:
A thousand years ago Muslims could say and write things that they cannot today without being put on a death-list from a self-styled mullah somewhere.
yes its true,there are severel illetrate mullahs in muslim society,here illetrate means who don`t have basic idea of a religioin`s teaching and they like to interpretate things literally rather going into depth. And this is not among muslim society only,history has told us about orthodox Christian preiests who had rejected Galileo`s theory long time back,because according to them,it was against their bible as they were used to follow Copernicus's theory.
dext0r wrote:
yes its true,there are severel illetrate mullahs in muslim society,here illetrate means who don`t have basic idea of a religioin`s teaching and they like to interpretate things literally rather going into depth. And this is not among muslim society only,history has told us about orthodox Christian preiests who had rejected Galileo`s theory long time back,because according to them,it was against their bible as they were used to follow Copernicus's theory.
That spelling, that idiom. I get a feeling of déjà vu. You must be Adnan.
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Incidentally, I do not agree with Rushdie's diagnosis. I posted this here as a curiosity item. He is prone to exaggeration and will say anything to attract publicity. Amir Taheri's article gives a more mature analysis of Islamic extremism.
Mirza Ghalib wrote:
I do not agree with Rushdie's diagnosis.
Same here. It sounds almost stupid to me.
Mirza Ghalib wrote:
Amir Taheri's article gives a more mature analysis of Islamic extremism
That is probably one of the best articles I have read regarding Islamic extremism.
All the mullahs, maulanas, and muftis, gentlemen who grow impressive beards and cover their heads with turbans or worse, are at best actors playing priests in a faith which does not include them in its script.
I held this view for a long time that Islamic religious leaders (not all of them ofcourse) are the root cause of problem especially where the population is uneducated.
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Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
You don't have to have your work published in order to call yourself author
True, but publication adds a significant element of ligitimacy to the title. ColinMackay.net "Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in." -- Confucius "If a man empties his purse into his head, no man can take it away from him, for an investment in knowledge pays the best interest." -- Joseph E. O'Donnell
Yep, until you have something published by a publishing house, you are a strugling author. :-D
"Je pense, donc je mange." - Rene Descartes 1689 - Just before his mother put his tea on the table. Shameless Plug - Distributed Database Transactions in .NET using COM+
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Stan Shannon wrote:
dext0r wrote: how would you feel if someone pass remarks about figure of your wife or young daugther?A normal man wouldn`t like that..atleast in eastern society,maybe western ppl feels proud of it,so its all about culture not a religion.I That observation relates more to the quality of your men, rather than that of your women.
well a bit confused,which *quality* are you relating with men,the staring one or have thinking that others stare to their women? i think men do stare women in every part of world,regardless of their belief,its their instinct,some stare more while others are moderate
dext0r wrote:
well a bit confused,which *quality* are you relating with men,the staring one or have thinking that others stare to their women?
I'm amazed you don't get it. Both, of course! The first is impolite and makes us feel uncomfortable (would you like to be lusted after by some guy, after all?) and the second ferments possessiveness and anger on the part of the men concerned. Neither is a healthy emotion to feel. Anna :rose: Currently working mostly on: Visual Lint :cool: Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work.
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Stan Shannon wrote:
dext0r wrote: how would you feel if someone pass remarks about figure of your wife or young daugther?A normal man wouldn`t like that..atleast in eastern society,maybe western ppl feels proud of it,so its all about culture not a religion.I That observation relates more to the quality of your men, rather than that of your women.
well a bit confused,which *quality* are you relating with men,the staring one or have thinking that others stare to their women? i think men do stare women in every part of world,regardless of their belief,its their instinct,some stare more while others are moderate
dext0r wrote:
well a bit confused,which *quality* are you relating with men,the staring one or have thinking that others stare to their women?
It isn't a one way street. No one in the modern world can claim that women should act in a certain way because men will respond in a certain way. In other words, why don't men in your society also wear veils to keep women from seeing them? It should work both ways or neither. The fact that men cannot control themsleves is not an argument for forcing women to behave in certain ways, it is an argument for makeing men more responsible for their behavior. "If anything, the West is awash in an epidemic of self-hate crimes." "a civilization that feels guilty for everything it is and does will lack the energy and conviction to defend itself"
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I wonder whether your wife used to wear small skirts and blouse in Kerala and your mom used to get pleased after seeing her exposed body. i wonder whether you get pleased when others stare her body when she goes out in minimum outfit on roads od toronto. Personally,its so horrible to see south indians in western outfits,better they keep themselves in veils:rolleyes:
dext0r wrote:
Personally,its so horrible to see south indians in western outfits,better they keep themselves in veils
You Muslim men just want to keep women from thinking independently, because if they do think for themselves, they might stop acting like livestock. I feel sorry for all women born into your stupid religion, look what Mohammad has to say about them: This if from the Hadith Mohammed asked some women, "Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half that of a man?" The women said, "yes," He said, "This is because of the deficiency of the woman's mind. " Vol. 3:826 "When only the police have guns, it's called a Police State."
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dext0r wrote:
Personally,its so horrible to see south indians in western outfits,better they keep themselves in veils
You Muslim men just want to keep women from thinking independently, because if they do think for themselves, they might stop acting like livestock. I feel sorry for all women born into your stupid religion, look what Mohammad has to say about them: This if from the Hadith Mohammed asked some women, "Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half that of a man?" The women said, "yes," He said, "This is because of the deficiency of the woman's mind. " Vol. 3:826 "When only the police have guns, it's called a Police State."
Pumk1nh3ad wrote:
Mohammed asked some women, "Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half that of a man?" The women said, "yes," He said, "This is because of the deficiency of the woman's mind. "
Wow - that's incredible. That would be a comfort to any woman who wanted to report a rape. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
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dext0r wrote:
Personally,its so horrible to see south indians in western outfits,better they keep themselves in veils
You Muslim men just want to keep women from thinking independently, because if they do think for themselves, they might stop acting like livestock. I feel sorry for all women born into your stupid religion, look what Mohammad has to say about them: This if from the Hadith Mohammed asked some women, "Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half that of a man?" The women said, "yes," He said, "This is because of the deficiency of the woman's mind. " Vol. 3:826 "When only the police have guns, it's called a Police State."
According to your logic, the judeo-christian world should be oppressing women just as badly as the muslim world. The problem does not lie in what is said in the Quran. The problem lies in that its words are taken far too literally. Luckily, most of the judeo-christian world has grown a clue..
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Pumk1nh3ad wrote:
Mohammed asked some women, "Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half that of a man?" The women said, "yes," He said, "This is because of the deficiency of the woman's mind. "
Wow - that's incredible. That would be a comfort to any woman who wanted to report a rape. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
Christian Graus wrote:
Wow - that's incredible. That would be a comfort to any woman who wanted to report a rape.
This would be a conclusion made out of ignorance.
Quran Lectures (updated 1/3/06) "They are MUSLIM. It does not matter how you split it up: all msulims (so they say) see every other muslim as a brother, regardless of origin or nationality." -legalAlien. Alhamdullah for the blessing of Islam
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Christian Graus wrote:
Wow - that's incredible. That would be a comfort to any woman who wanted to report a rape.
This would be a conclusion made out of ignorance.
Quran Lectures (updated 1/3/06) "They are MUSLIM. It does not matter how you split it up: all msulims (so they say) see every other muslim as a brother, regardless of origin or nationality." -legalAlien. Alhamdullah for the blessing of Islam
A.A. wrote:
This would be a conclusion made out of ignorance.
Does this mean that a/ a Quran doesn't say that a womans opinion is worth half that of a man b/ the Quran says that and somehow you can explain it away c/ that's one of the bits of the Quran everyone just pretends isn't in there ? Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
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A.A. wrote:
This would be a conclusion made out of ignorance.
Does this mean that a/ a Quran doesn't say that a womans opinion is worth half that of a man b/ the Quran says that and somehow you can explain it away c/ that's one of the bits of the Quran everyone just pretends isn't in there ? Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
First of all I hope you realize that what was quoted was hadith and not Quran. The options you listed aren't exhaustive... In some situations the testimony of a women is to be taken and that of a man will not be taken. I wish people would just ask rather than assume.
Quran Lectures (updated 1/3/06) "They are MUSLIM. It does not matter how you split it up: all msulims (so they say) see every other muslim as a brother, regardless of origin or nationality." -legalAlien. Alhamdullah for the blessing of Islam
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First of all I hope you realize that what was quoted was hadith and not Quran. The options you listed aren't exhaustive... In some situations the testimony of a women is to be taken and that of a man will not be taken. I wish people would just ask rather than assume.
Quran Lectures (updated 1/3/06) "They are MUSLIM. It does not matter how you split it up: all msulims (so they say) see every other muslim as a brother, regardless of origin or nationality." -legalAlien. Alhamdullah for the blessing of Islam
A.A. wrote:
In some situations the testimony of a women is to be taken and that of a man will not be taken.
And is that a fair thing? Regards, Nish
My blog : Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET
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A.A. wrote:
In some situations the testimony of a women is to be taken and that of a man will not be taken.
And is that a fair thing? Regards, Nish
My blog : Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET
Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
And is that a fair thing?
Not sure what this has to do with fairness, but there are many issues where women in general just know more about, and unless the man in question is some expert on the topic, the testimony of the woman carries more weight.
Quran Lectures (updated 1/3/06) "They are MUSLIM. It does not matter how you split it up: all msulims (so they say) see every other muslim as a brother, regardless of origin or nationality." -legalAlien. Alhamdullah for the blessing of Islam
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dext0r wrote:
well a bit confused,which *quality* are you relating with men,the staring one or have thinking that others stare to their women?
It isn't a one way street. No one in the modern world can claim that women should act in a certain way because men will respond in a certain way. In other words, why don't men in your society also wear veils to keep women from seeing them? It should work both ways or neither. The fact that men cannot control themsleves is not an argument for forcing women to behave in certain ways, it is an argument for makeing men more responsible for their behavior. "If anything, the West is awash in an epidemic of self-hate crimes." "a civilization that feels guilty for everything it is and does will lack the energy and conviction to defend itself"
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First of all I hope you realize that what was quoted was hadith and not Quran. The options you listed aren't exhaustive... In some situations the testimony of a women is to be taken and that of a man will not be taken. I wish people would just ask rather than assume.
Quran Lectures (updated 1/3/06) "They are MUSLIM. It does not matter how you split it up: all msulims (so they say) see every other muslim as a brother, regardless of origin or nationality." -legalAlien. Alhamdullah for the blessing of Islam
A.A. wrote:
The options you listed aren't exhaustive...
Yes, they are. It either doesn't say that, or it does, but people choose to ignore it. I googled the Hadith. Is this true ? Next to the Quran, it is the most important part of Islamic law; its teachings are just as binding. If so, does the Hadith say these things ? * Mohammed asked some women, "Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half that of a man?" The women said, "yes," He said, "This is because of the deficiency of the woman's mind. " Vol. 3:826 The majority of people in hell are women. * Mohammed said, "I was shown the Hell-fire and that the majority of its dwellers are women. " Vol. 1:28, 301; Vol. 2:161; Vol. 7:124 Women are a bad omen. * Mohammed said, " Bad omen is in the woman, the house and the horse." Vol. 7:30 Women are harmful to men. * Mohammed said, "After me I have not left any affliction more harmful to men than women." Vol. 7:33 Is this also true ? * "Narrated Aisha that the prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old."Vol. 7:64 I didn't assume, I did a google and found plenty of sites refering to these verses. In the absence of the original text, that's the best I could do. So, are all these people misquoting the Hadith, is it wrong that the Hadith is a sacred Islamic text, are women property under Islam, or is Islam at large just ignoring the bits of it's holy books that it doesn't like ? I don't see how that fails to be an exaustive list. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
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A.A. wrote:
The options you listed aren't exhaustive...
Yes, they are. It either doesn't say that, or it does, but people choose to ignore it. I googled the Hadith. Is this true ? Next to the Quran, it is the most important part of Islamic law; its teachings are just as binding. If so, does the Hadith say these things ? * Mohammed asked some women, "Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half that of a man?" The women said, "yes," He said, "This is because of the deficiency of the woman's mind. " Vol. 3:826 The majority of people in hell are women. * Mohammed said, "I was shown the Hell-fire and that the majority of its dwellers are women. " Vol. 1:28, 301; Vol. 2:161; Vol. 7:124 Women are a bad omen. * Mohammed said, " Bad omen is in the woman, the house and the horse." Vol. 7:30 Women are harmful to men. * Mohammed said, "After me I have not left any affliction more harmful to men than women." Vol. 7:33 Is this also true ? * "Narrated Aisha that the prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old."Vol. 7:64 I didn't assume, I did a google and found plenty of sites refering to these verses. In the absence of the original text, that's the best I could do. So, are all these people misquoting the Hadith, is it wrong that the Hadith is a sacred Islamic text, are women property under Islam, or is Islam at large just ignoring the bits of it's holy books that it doesn't like ? I don't see how that fails to be an exaustive list. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
Christian Graus wrote:
Yes, they are. It either doesn't say that, or it does, but people choose to ignore it.
No its not, at least not in the meaning protrayed by choosing one of those. My saying it was Hadith wasn't ment to reduce its credibility rather it was a correction. As for the definition you found it would depend on the context and what they meant. But in short the Quran and Hadith are the most important Islamic sources. As for the rest you seem to have found one of the many anti-Islamic [and I don't mean this because they are critically analyzing rather because they know enough to know the issue with what they are saying] sites that seem to copy one another. There are probably many sites that deal with each of these points, go google those. Except for the one already quoted, none of the rest have anything to do with the first response I gave.
Quran Lectures (updated 1/3/06) "They are MUSLIM. It does not matter how you split it up: all msulims (so they say) see every other muslim as a brother, regardless of origin or nationality." -legalAlien. Alhamdullah for the blessing of Islam
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Christian Graus wrote:
Yes, they are. It either doesn't say that, or it does, but people choose to ignore it.
No its not, at least not in the meaning protrayed by choosing one of those. My saying it was Hadith wasn't ment to reduce its credibility rather it was a correction. As for the definition you found it would depend on the context and what they meant. But in short the Quran and Hadith are the most important Islamic sources. As for the rest you seem to have found one of the many anti-Islamic [and I don't mean this because they are critically analyzing rather because they know enough to know the issue with what they are saying] sites that seem to copy one another. There are probably many sites that deal with each of these points, go google those. Except for the one already quoted, none of the rest have anything to do with the first response I gave.
Quran Lectures (updated 1/3/06) "They are MUSLIM. It does not matter how you split it up: all msulims (so they say) see every other muslim as a brother, regardless of origin or nationality." -legalAlien. Alhamdullah for the blessing of Islam
A.A. wrote:
But in short the Quran and Hadith are the most important Islamic sources.
That's all that was claimed.
A.A. wrote:
As for the rest you seem to have found one of the many anti-Islamic
http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/pol/126974220.html[^] I wouldn't say it was hysterically anti Islam. It's just a bunch of quotes. Apparently we agree that they are genuine, how is that anything but valid comment ?
A.A. wrote:
There are probably many sites that deal with each of these points, go google those.
Well, how about you just answer the question - do you believe those verses, or do you ignore them ? Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
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A.A. wrote:
But in short the Quran and Hadith are the most important Islamic sources.
That's all that was claimed.
A.A. wrote:
As for the rest you seem to have found one of the many anti-Islamic
http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/pol/126974220.html[^] I wouldn't say it was hysterically anti Islam. It's just a bunch of quotes. Apparently we agree that they are genuine, how is that anything but valid comment ?
A.A. wrote:
There are probably many sites that deal with each of these points, go google those.
Well, how about you just answer the question - do you believe those verses, or do you ignore them ? Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
Christian Graus wrote:
http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/pol/126974220.html\[^\] I wouldn't say it was hysterically anti Islam. It's just a bunch of quotes. Apparently we agree that they are genuine, how is that anything but valid comment ?
Just as I thought. This guy gets around, his posts and books are posted on many anti-Islamic sites. I believe his articles were quoted here on CP several times, in fact some with the same title. As for being hysterically anti-Islam, yes he is, look at his books. I find it ironic that he uses Al-Araby as a pen name, because I've seen several cases where he shows extreme weakness in analyzing Arabic words and sentences. As for case by case analysis of what you posted, you can find it online, just like you found these.
Quran Lectures (updated 1/3/06) "They are MUSLIM. It does not matter how you split it up: all msulims (so they say) see every other muslim as a brother, regardless of origin or nationality." -legalAlien. Alhamdullah for the blessing of Islam
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Christian Graus wrote:
http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/pol/126974220.html\[^\] I wouldn't say it was hysterically anti Islam. It's just a bunch of quotes. Apparently we agree that they are genuine, how is that anything but valid comment ?
Just as I thought. This guy gets around, his posts and books are posted on many anti-Islamic sites. I believe his articles were quoted here on CP several times, in fact some with the same title. As for being hysterically anti-Islam, yes he is, look at his books. I find it ironic that he uses Al-Araby as a pen name, because I've seen several cases where he shows extreme weakness in analyzing Arabic words and sentences. As for case by case analysis of what you posted, you can find it online, just like you found these.
Quran Lectures (updated 1/3/06) "They are MUSLIM. It does not matter how you split it up: all msulims (so they say) see every other muslim as a brother, regardless of origin or nationality." -legalAlien. Alhamdullah for the blessing of Islam
A.A. wrote:
As for case by case analysis of what you posted, you can find it online, just like you found these.
Actually, I googled the phrase and found not one web site offering explanation. I'm curious why you're not willing to explain how you feel about these verses, surely no web site can tell me that ? Or are you not allowed to have an opinion ? Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++