sorry, a bit of a rant...
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qomi wrote: do you really do that? <sigh> No. But it sounded like you needed a laugh. I think I've become soft over the years. I've found that a combination of a) not letting it bother me, and b) recognizing when I need to give in and listen is the best solution. Oh, and try to be rational. Sounds like yer adversary is not, and I think that without someone with their head on straight, there would be no solution. Try: "Look, I know you're upset. I don't know why, and you don't seem to want to tell me. I'd love to help you solve this, but I can't until you let me in. Please come back when you're ready to explain. Until then, neither one of us getting anywhere." This sudden blast of pure unadulterated reason will likely prod them into spilling their guts. Then, at least, the issue is out in the open. My $0.02. J
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Roger Wright wrote: "....I find if I ignore them, and I mean truly learn to not give a damn how badly they feel" Thanks. I have been trying that first part, but having trouble with the last part. I'll work on it :-) "All great truths begin as blasphemies." -George Bernard Shaw
A different way of looking at this is "don't take ownership of their problems." Their problems are their problems, and if they want to share, are looking for a shoulder to cry on, need some help (men typically jump to this immediately), then that's fine. A friend will lend their ear. But if they want to whine, and pout, and carry on, then that's fine, too. That's their choice. You don't need to be the one that determines how they need to work through their difficulties, but you do that when you take ownership of their problem and then ask "what's wrong." After that, it's all down hill ... "oh, nothing." It's not that you don't care, it's just realistic that you can't do anything to help them. Dave "You can say that again." -- Dept. of Redundancy Dept.
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The *only* thing you can do is to tell people to get over themselves. I mean, fair dinkum, the world does not revolve around any one persons troubles, and in my experience people like this don't want to be happy, they want something to bitch about. Christian I have come to clean zee pooollll. - Michael Martin Dec 30, 2001 Picture the daffodil. And while you do that, I'll be over here going through your stuff. Picture a world without war, without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they would never expect it.
Sonork ID 100.10002:MeanManOz
I live in Bob's HungOut now
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Christian Graus wrote: "in my experience people like this don't want to be happy" Hmmm...yeah, that's what I've been thinking. But why? :confused: "All great truths begin as blasphemies." -George Bernard Shaw
qomi wrote: in my experience people like this don't want to be happy I think they just one some attention... but they approach the others by the wrong way. Mauricio Teichmann Ritter Brazil mauricioritter@hotmail.com
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My mother is exactly like this ( did you marry my sister ? I pity you if you did ) and I just put the phone down. She is SO loud I can let her rant for ages and I'll know as soon as she stops. Then I stop typing. pick up the phone and say 'really ? That's TERRIBLE'. Christian I have come to clean zee pooollll. - Michael Martin Dec 30, 2001 Picture the daffodil. And while you do that, I'll be over here going through your stuff. Picture a world without war, without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they would never expect it.
Sonork ID 100.10002:MeanManOz
I live in Bob's HungOut now
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A different way of looking at this is "don't take ownership of their problems." Their problems are their problems, and if they want to share, are looking for a shoulder to cry on, need some help (men typically jump to this immediately), then that's fine. A friend will lend their ear. But if they want to whine, and pout, and carry on, then that's fine, too. That's their choice. You don't need to be the one that determines how they need to work through their difficulties, but you do that when you take ownership of their problem and then ask "what's wrong." After that, it's all down hill ... "oh, nothing." It's not that you don't care, it's just realistic that you can't do anything to help them. Dave "You can say that again." -- Dept. of Redundancy Dept.
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:laugh: That's funny. Does she have any idea that you do it? "All great truths begin as blasphemies." -George Bernard Shaw
Whoops. I am running two PC's side by side, one to play music and surf and the other to do some work before I go away. I just typed your reply onto the other PC ( not on the network) Try again.... My mother has been miserable my whole life. I was always told she stayed with my father for the kids, she claims my dad beats her ( this was the WORST, because I know she exaggerates/lies, but I also know my father has a temper, so I didn't really know how to approach this. ), and on and on. She has so little idea of real life that when she was in a 'disown your sister' phase, she sent her a registered letter, telling her not to talk to my mum again. She thought this meant my sister would be put in jail if she did, because it was a registered letter. We discussed it for ages, then she spoke to Donna, and moments later I hear her saying to my Mum ' that's not what a registered letter DOES '... My father on the other hand assumes all women are stupid. When he stays with us, he asks Donna something, then comes to ask me because he does not believe her. I have to work hard not to accidently contradict her, and in fact tell him often to ask Donna because she knows better than me. It doesn't help that she refuses to heat his milk and make his corn flakes in the morning... So the point is neither of them seem to know which way is up and I'm sure she has no idea that I don't really listen to the latest installment. They are all the same anyhow, so it's not like I can't respond to what she says, I know it before she starts - either my sister is trash and a liar, or the world is against my poor sister. Currently my sister blames every problem in her life on me hitting her ( as in once, not on a continual basis ) with a stick when I was 5 and she was 3. Christian I have come to clean zee pooollll. - Michael Martin Dec 30, 2001 Picture the daffodil. And while you do that, I'll be over here going through your stuff. Picture a world without war, without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they would never expect it.
Sonork ID 100.10002:MeanManOz
I live in Bob's HungOut now
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Christian Graus wrote: "in my experience people like this don't want to be happy" Hmmm...yeah, that's what I've been thinking. But why? :confused: "All great truths begin as blasphemies." -George Bernard Shaw
qomi wrote: Hmmm...yeah, that's what I've been thinking. But why? Because thinking their unhappiness is someone elses fault is so much easier than taking a chance at doing something about it. Because there is comfort in feeling sorry for yourself, that it's not your fault and you could have been so much more if life was not against you. My mother has a standard speech which is basically 'I've been treated so badly for so long that I have no emotions anymore'. Another was 'I hate kids, so don't show me your kids because they won't like me, they can sense I hate them.' When she met Hannah the first time Hannah was unsure ( of course ), and Mum said 'I don't mind, I hate kids'. Hannah loved Mum and soon Mum couldn't get enough of her, offered to mind her for the day while we went out, etc. It's a defence mechanism. She wanted Hannah to love her and was terrified she wouldn't, so she prepared by telling herself she didn't care. Christian I have come to clean zee pooollll. - Michael Martin Dec 30, 2001 Picture the daffodil. And while you do that, I'll be over here going through your stuff. Picture a world without war, without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they would never expect it.
Sonork ID 100.10002:MeanManOz
I live in Bob's HungOut now
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Whoops. I am running two PC's side by side, one to play music and surf and the other to do some work before I go away. I just typed your reply onto the other PC ( not on the network) Try again.... My mother has been miserable my whole life. I was always told she stayed with my father for the kids, she claims my dad beats her ( this was the WORST, because I know she exaggerates/lies, but I also know my father has a temper, so I didn't really know how to approach this. ), and on and on. She has so little idea of real life that when she was in a 'disown your sister' phase, she sent her a registered letter, telling her not to talk to my mum again. She thought this meant my sister would be put in jail if she did, because it was a registered letter. We discussed it for ages, then she spoke to Donna, and moments later I hear her saying to my Mum ' that's not what a registered letter DOES '... My father on the other hand assumes all women are stupid. When he stays with us, he asks Donna something, then comes to ask me because he does not believe her. I have to work hard not to accidently contradict her, and in fact tell him often to ask Donna because she knows better than me. It doesn't help that she refuses to heat his milk and make his corn flakes in the morning... So the point is neither of them seem to know which way is up and I'm sure she has no idea that I don't really listen to the latest installment. They are all the same anyhow, so it's not like I can't respond to what she says, I know it before she starts - either my sister is trash and a liar, or the world is against my poor sister. Currently my sister blames every problem in her life on me hitting her ( as in once, not on a continual basis ) with a stick when I was 5 and she was 3. Christian I have come to clean zee pooollll. - Michael Martin Dec 30, 2001 Picture the daffodil. And while you do that, I'll be over here going through your stuff. Picture a world without war, without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they would never expect it.
Sonork ID 100.10002:MeanManOz
I live in Bob's HungOut now
wow...that is both sad and funny. Not an easy situation to handle I am sure. I can only imagine how screwed up my siblings and I are, if your sister feels her life is ruined from you hitting her with a stick once oh so long ago. "All great truths begin as blasphemies." -George Bernard Shaw
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wow...that is both sad and funny. Not an easy situation to handle I am sure. I can only imagine how screwed up my siblings and I are, if your sister feels her life is ruined from you hitting her with a stick once oh so long ago. "All great truths begin as blasphemies." -George Bernard Shaw
I moved interstate so I didn't have to deal with it constantly. But I'd credit my childhood with giving me a sense of humour :-) I know - my mum keeps asking if I hit her, to which I say probably, but it's hardly the point. She did a ton of things to me when we were growing up, the point is we were kids and she needs to take responsibility for her own life. I'll probably see her when I'm on holidays, we're visiting my folks on the way through. I can't wait.... I hope that having raved about me constantly in my absence she has the guts to say all this to my face, much as I'd rather avoid such a stupid fight. Christian I have come to clean zee pooollll. - Michael Martin Dec 30, 2001 Picture the daffodil. And while you do that, I'll be over here going through your stuff. Picture a world without war, without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they would never expect it.
Sonork ID 100.10002:MeanManOz
I live in Bob's HungOut now
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qomi wrote: Hmmm...yeah, that's what I've been thinking. But why? Because thinking their unhappiness is someone elses fault is so much easier than taking a chance at doing something about it. Because there is comfort in feeling sorry for yourself, that it's not your fault and you could have been so much more if life was not against you. My mother has a standard speech which is basically 'I've been treated so badly for so long that I have no emotions anymore'. Another was 'I hate kids, so don't show me your kids because they won't like me, they can sense I hate them.' When she met Hannah the first time Hannah was unsure ( of course ), and Mum said 'I don't mind, I hate kids'. Hannah loved Mum and soon Mum couldn't get enough of her, offered to mind her for the day while we went out, etc. It's a defence mechanism. She wanted Hannah to love her and was terrified she wouldn't, so she prepared by telling herself she didn't care. Christian I have come to clean zee pooollll. - Michael Martin Dec 30, 2001 Picture the daffodil. And while you do that, I'll be over here going through your stuff. Picture a world without war, without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they would never expect it.
Sonork ID 100.10002:MeanManOz
I live in Bob's HungOut now
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yikes! I'm not an overly emotional person, but it would break my heart if one of my parents said "I hate kids, so don't show me your kids" to me. "All great truths begin as blasphemies." -George Bernard Shaw
Imagine if your husband's mother told you when you'd just had your first child that it was still small enough to be easy to smother with a pillow. I put it down to her mental problems, Donna took it a bit harder, especially with PND. I don't mind what my mother says to me, because I know how to take it, but I came out fighting when she started upsetting my wife. I don't think she spoke to us for a month. Christian I have come to clean zee pooollll. - Michael Martin Dec 30, 2001 Picture the daffodil. And while you do that, I'll be over here going through your stuff. Picture a world without war, without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they would never expect it.
Sonork ID 100.10002:MeanManOz
I live in Bob's HungOut now
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Imagine if your husband's mother told you when you'd just had your first child that it was still small enough to be easy to smother with a pillow. I put it down to her mental problems, Donna took it a bit harder, especially with PND. I don't mind what my mother says to me, because I know how to take it, but I came out fighting when she started upsetting my wife. I don't think she spoke to us for a month. Christian I have come to clean zee pooollll. - Michael Martin Dec 30, 2001 Picture the daffodil. And while you do that, I'll be over here going through your stuff. Picture a world without war, without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they would never expect it.
Sonork ID 100.10002:MeanManOz
I live in Bob's HungOut now
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I do the cocked-eyebrow-blank-face-"why are you saying this to me?"-look. It does work sometimes. The rest was hilarious! :laugh: do you really do that? "All great truths begin as blasphemies." -George Bernard Shaw
Some are very persistent... I like, "What did I say that sounded like "Tell me about your day"?" Stolen from Dogbert, of course, but he's a good and wise example of how to deal with life's annoying people:laugh: When all else fails, use the twirling wedgie! It won't always accomplish what you want, but it is almost always immensely gratifying...
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The *only* thing you can do is to tell people to get over themselves. I mean, fair dinkum, the world does not revolve around any one persons troubles, and in my experience people like this don't want to be happy, they want something to bitch about. Christian I have come to clean zee pooollll. - Michael Martin Dec 30, 2001 Picture the daffodil. And while you do that, I'll be over here going through your stuff. Picture a world without war, without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they would never expect it.
Sonork ID 100.10002:MeanManOz
I live in Bob's HungOut now
****Christian Graus wrote: experience people like this don't want to be happy, they want something to bitch about. So true! And so very sad for them... :((
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Christian Graus wrote: "...it was still small enough to be easy to smother with a pillow. " I hope you don't let her baby-sit! "All great truths begin as blasphemies." -George Bernard Shaw
qomi wrote: Christian Graus wrote: "...it was still small enough to be easy to smother with a pillow. " I hope you don't let her baby-sit! *grin* like I said, every time we visit she's negative until Hannah starts loving her. I know it's all bluster, and she knows I would go to jail for murder before letting anyone live if they permanenty harmed my children. Christian I have come to clean zee pooollll. - Michael Martin Dec 30, 2001 Picture the daffodil. And while you do that, I'll be over here going through your stuff. Picture a world without war, without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they would never expect it.
Sonork ID 100.10002:MeanManOz
I live in Bob's HungOut now
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qomi wrote: Hmmm...yeah, that's what I've been thinking. But why? Because thinking their unhappiness is someone elses fault is so much easier than taking a chance at doing something about it. Because there is comfort in feeling sorry for yourself, that it's not your fault and you could have been so much more if life was not against you. My mother has a standard speech which is basically 'I've been treated so badly for so long that I have no emotions anymore'. Another was 'I hate kids, so don't show me your kids because they won't like me, they can sense I hate them.' When she met Hannah the first time Hannah was unsure ( of course ), and Mum said 'I don't mind, I hate kids'. Hannah loved Mum and soon Mum couldn't get enough of her, offered to mind her for the day while we went out, etc. It's a defence mechanism. She wanted Hannah to love her and was terrified she wouldn't, so she prepared by telling herself she didn't care. Christian I have come to clean zee pooollll. - Michael Martin Dec 30, 2001 Picture the daffodil. And while you do that, I'll be over here going through your stuff. Picture a world without war, without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they would never expect it.
Sonork ID 100.10002:MeanManOz
I live in Bob's HungOut now
It's a defence mechanism. She wanted Hannah to love her and was terrified she wouldn't, so she prepared by telling herself she didn't care. That describes the way I handle most of the things in my life. It's stupid too, 'cause I am constantly telling myself that I shouldn't. However, it's not something you can overcome, or at least if you can, no one’s bothered to tell me how. It's a physiological thing – it probably has some technical name, and for me it stems from my own childhood problems, which again stem from the stupidest of things. I have the problem now in that I have to constantly and consciously push myself to, for example, socialise with my friends, because subconsciously I am telling myself that they don’t really want to be friends with me (as in “why would they want to be”), so why bother. I have not been in a relationship for over a year now, as I can’t approach people - that was one of the reasons we went our separate ways. Add to that a combination of too much self-consciousness and a lack of self-esteem, again stemming from my childhood. They say kids can be cruel, but if you’ve never been subjected to it yourself then you really have no f**king idea what that means. Never underestimate the power of the mind. It can easily go wrong, but fixing it is nigh on impossible. All I can do is accept it and learn to work with it. If you asked me, I would say I am perfectly happy with my life and with myself, even though my mind tells me otherwise. In reality however, I am slowly but surely torturing myself each and every day over the stupidest of things. Indeed right now, as I am typing this, I am having difficulty being moderate with my descriptions. :| You should sit down with all of your family and lay everything out on the table. You are unlikely to accomplish anything, but if they are at all like myself, they will try (and want more than anything) to express themselves freely and truly. It’s too easy to mistake what [they] want to convey with what [they] seem to convey. ________________ David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group, there was less competition there" - Gandhi
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Whoops. I am running two PC's side by side, one to play music and surf and the other to do some work before I go away. I just typed your reply onto the other PC ( not on the network) Try again.... My mother has been miserable my whole life. I was always told she stayed with my father for the kids, she claims my dad beats her ( this was the WORST, because I know she exaggerates/lies, but I also know my father has a temper, so I didn't really know how to approach this. ), and on and on. She has so little idea of real life that when she was in a 'disown your sister' phase, she sent her a registered letter, telling her not to talk to my mum again. She thought this meant my sister would be put in jail if she did, because it was a registered letter. We discussed it for ages, then she spoke to Donna, and moments later I hear her saying to my Mum ' that's not what a registered letter DOES '... My father on the other hand assumes all women are stupid. When he stays with us, he asks Donna something, then comes to ask me because he does not believe her. I have to work hard not to accidently contradict her, and in fact tell him often to ask Donna because she knows better than me. It doesn't help that she refuses to heat his milk and make his corn flakes in the morning... So the point is neither of them seem to know which way is up and I'm sure she has no idea that I don't really listen to the latest installment. They are all the same anyhow, so it's not like I can't respond to what she says, I know it before she starts - either my sister is trash and a liar, or the world is against my poor sister. Currently my sister blames every problem in her life on me hitting her ( as in once, not on a continual basis ) with a stick when I was 5 and she was 3. Christian I have come to clean zee pooollll. - Michael Martin Dec 30, 2001 Picture the daffodil. And while you do that, I'll be over here going through your stuff. Picture a world without war, without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they would never expect it.
Sonork ID 100.10002:MeanManOz
I live in Bob's HungOut now
****Christian Graus wrote: It doesn't help that she refuses to heat his milk and make his corn flakes in the morning... She doesn't? And You married her? Christian! Seriously though that totally sucks (the other stuff, not the non-cornflake milk heating debacle) cheers, Chris Maunder
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It's a defence mechanism. She wanted Hannah to love her and was terrified she wouldn't, so she prepared by telling herself she didn't care. That describes the way I handle most of the things in my life. It's stupid too, 'cause I am constantly telling myself that I shouldn't. However, it's not something you can overcome, or at least if you can, no one’s bothered to tell me how. It's a physiological thing – it probably has some technical name, and for me it stems from my own childhood problems, which again stem from the stupidest of things. I have the problem now in that I have to constantly and consciously push myself to, for example, socialise with my friends, because subconsciously I am telling myself that they don’t really want to be friends with me (as in “why would they want to be”), so why bother. I have not been in a relationship for over a year now, as I can’t approach people - that was one of the reasons we went our separate ways. Add to that a combination of too much self-consciousness and a lack of self-esteem, again stemming from my childhood. They say kids can be cruel, but if you’ve never been subjected to it yourself then you really have no f**king idea what that means. Never underestimate the power of the mind. It can easily go wrong, but fixing it is nigh on impossible. All I can do is accept it and learn to work with it. If you asked me, I would say I am perfectly happy with my life and with myself, even though my mind tells me otherwise. In reality however, I am slowly but surely torturing myself each and every day over the stupidest of things. Indeed right now, as I am typing this, I am having difficulty being moderate with my descriptions. :| You should sit down with all of your family and lay everything out on the table. You are unlikely to accomplish anything, but if they are at all like myself, they will try (and want more than anything) to express themselves freely and truly. It’s too easy to mistake what [they] want to convey with what [they] seem to convey. ________________ David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group, there was less competition there" - Gandhi
I know what my mother ( and you ) are going through, I was exactly the same. In my case I changed completely when I became a Christian ( as in one moment I was miserable and convinced no-one liked me, the next I was happy and didn't care who chose to like me ). That obviously gives me no real perspective on how to overcome such a problem without divine intervention. I really feel sorry for my mum, but I've tried to force the issue, and to her it boils down to her belief that my father is mentally ill. She can't see anything beyond that and it only causes grief to try and explore the situation. I had a hell of a childhood, and it sounds like maybe you did too, but in my mothers case I think the problem is a lot deeper. Christian I have come to clean zee pooollll. - Michael Martin Dec 30, 2001 Picture the daffodil. And while you do that, I'll be over here going through your stuff. Picture a world without war, without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they would never expect it.
Sonork ID 100.10002:MeanManOz
I live in Bob's HungOut now
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****Christian Graus wrote: It doesn't help that she refuses to heat his milk and make his corn flakes in the morning... She doesn't? And You married her? Christian! Seriously though that totally sucks (the other stuff, not the non-cornflake milk heating debacle) cheers, Chris Maunder
Chris Maunder wrote: Seriously though that totally sucks (the other stuff, not the non-cornflake milk heating debacle) The beauty of it is I have an excuse. Many people when they find out about my childhood and my first wife leaving me for my best friend &tc ( which I only mention in the context of funny stories, and only to people who I know well, so you know I don't go around whinging about it ) they generally say something like 'I used to wonder why you're so strange, now I wonder why you're so normal'. So I can act any way I like :-) Seriously though, it does suck and the only up side is that my kids do pretty well out of the fact that I constantly try to make sure I don't make any of the mistakes my parents did ( which included spoiling my sister, and denying me any sort of affection ever ). It's kind of like the Berenstain Bears - they showed me what not to do to raise happy kids... Christian I have come to clean zee pooollll. - Michael Martin Dec 30, 2001 Picture the daffodil. And while you do that, I'll be over here going through your stuff. Picture a world without war, without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they would never expect it.
Sonork ID 100.10002:MeanManOz
I live in Bob's HungOut now