sorry, a bit of a rant...
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Christian Graus wrote: "in my experience people like this don't want to be happy" Hmmm...yeah, that's what I've been thinking. But why? :confused: "All great truths begin as blasphemies." -George Bernard Shaw
qomi wrote: Hmmm...yeah, that's what I've been thinking. But why? Because thinking their unhappiness is someone elses fault is so much easier than taking a chance at doing something about it. Because there is comfort in feeling sorry for yourself, that it's not your fault and you could have been so much more if life was not against you. My mother has a standard speech which is basically 'I've been treated so badly for so long that I have no emotions anymore'. Another was 'I hate kids, so don't show me your kids because they won't like me, they can sense I hate them.' When she met Hannah the first time Hannah was unsure ( of course ), and Mum said 'I don't mind, I hate kids'. Hannah loved Mum and soon Mum couldn't get enough of her, offered to mind her for the day while we went out, etc. It's a defence mechanism. She wanted Hannah to love her and was terrified she wouldn't, so she prepared by telling herself she didn't care. Christian I have come to clean zee pooollll. - Michael Martin Dec 30, 2001 Picture the daffodil. And while you do that, I'll be over here going through your stuff. Picture a world without war, without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they would never expect it.
Sonork ID 100.10002:MeanManOz
I live in Bob's HungOut now
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Whoops. I am running two PC's side by side, one to play music and surf and the other to do some work before I go away. I just typed your reply onto the other PC ( not on the network) Try again.... My mother has been miserable my whole life. I was always told she stayed with my father for the kids, she claims my dad beats her ( this was the WORST, because I know she exaggerates/lies, but I also know my father has a temper, so I didn't really know how to approach this. ), and on and on. She has so little idea of real life that when she was in a 'disown your sister' phase, she sent her a registered letter, telling her not to talk to my mum again. She thought this meant my sister would be put in jail if she did, because it was a registered letter. We discussed it for ages, then she spoke to Donna, and moments later I hear her saying to my Mum ' that's not what a registered letter DOES '... My father on the other hand assumes all women are stupid. When he stays with us, he asks Donna something, then comes to ask me because he does not believe her. I have to work hard not to accidently contradict her, and in fact tell him often to ask Donna because she knows better than me. It doesn't help that she refuses to heat his milk and make his corn flakes in the morning... So the point is neither of them seem to know which way is up and I'm sure she has no idea that I don't really listen to the latest installment. They are all the same anyhow, so it's not like I can't respond to what she says, I know it before she starts - either my sister is trash and a liar, or the world is against my poor sister. Currently my sister blames every problem in her life on me hitting her ( as in once, not on a continual basis ) with a stick when I was 5 and she was 3. Christian I have come to clean zee pooollll. - Michael Martin Dec 30, 2001 Picture the daffodil. And while you do that, I'll be over here going through your stuff. Picture a world without war, without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they would never expect it.
Sonork ID 100.10002:MeanManOz
I live in Bob's HungOut now
wow...that is both sad and funny. Not an easy situation to handle I am sure. I can only imagine how screwed up my siblings and I are, if your sister feels her life is ruined from you hitting her with a stick once oh so long ago. "All great truths begin as blasphemies." -George Bernard Shaw
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wow...that is both sad and funny. Not an easy situation to handle I am sure. I can only imagine how screwed up my siblings and I are, if your sister feels her life is ruined from you hitting her with a stick once oh so long ago. "All great truths begin as blasphemies." -George Bernard Shaw
I moved interstate so I didn't have to deal with it constantly. But I'd credit my childhood with giving me a sense of humour :-) I know - my mum keeps asking if I hit her, to which I say probably, but it's hardly the point. She did a ton of things to me when we were growing up, the point is we were kids and she needs to take responsibility for her own life. I'll probably see her when I'm on holidays, we're visiting my folks on the way through. I can't wait.... I hope that having raved about me constantly in my absence she has the guts to say all this to my face, much as I'd rather avoid such a stupid fight. Christian I have come to clean zee pooollll. - Michael Martin Dec 30, 2001 Picture the daffodil. And while you do that, I'll be over here going through your stuff. Picture a world without war, without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they would never expect it.
Sonork ID 100.10002:MeanManOz
I live in Bob's HungOut now
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qomi wrote: Hmmm...yeah, that's what I've been thinking. But why? Because thinking their unhappiness is someone elses fault is so much easier than taking a chance at doing something about it. Because there is comfort in feeling sorry for yourself, that it's not your fault and you could have been so much more if life was not against you. My mother has a standard speech which is basically 'I've been treated so badly for so long that I have no emotions anymore'. Another was 'I hate kids, so don't show me your kids because they won't like me, they can sense I hate them.' When she met Hannah the first time Hannah was unsure ( of course ), and Mum said 'I don't mind, I hate kids'. Hannah loved Mum and soon Mum couldn't get enough of her, offered to mind her for the day while we went out, etc. It's a defence mechanism. She wanted Hannah to love her and was terrified she wouldn't, so she prepared by telling herself she didn't care. Christian I have come to clean zee pooollll. - Michael Martin Dec 30, 2001 Picture the daffodil. And while you do that, I'll be over here going through your stuff. Picture a world without war, without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they would never expect it.
Sonork ID 100.10002:MeanManOz
I live in Bob's HungOut now
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yikes! I'm not an overly emotional person, but it would break my heart if one of my parents said "I hate kids, so don't show me your kids" to me. "All great truths begin as blasphemies." -George Bernard Shaw
Imagine if your husband's mother told you when you'd just had your first child that it was still small enough to be easy to smother with a pillow. I put it down to her mental problems, Donna took it a bit harder, especially with PND. I don't mind what my mother says to me, because I know how to take it, but I came out fighting when she started upsetting my wife. I don't think she spoke to us for a month. Christian I have come to clean zee pooollll. - Michael Martin Dec 30, 2001 Picture the daffodil. And while you do that, I'll be over here going through your stuff. Picture a world without war, without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they would never expect it.
Sonork ID 100.10002:MeanManOz
I live in Bob's HungOut now
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Imagine if your husband's mother told you when you'd just had your first child that it was still small enough to be easy to smother with a pillow. I put it down to her mental problems, Donna took it a bit harder, especially with PND. I don't mind what my mother says to me, because I know how to take it, but I came out fighting when she started upsetting my wife. I don't think she spoke to us for a month. Christian I have come to clean zee pooollll. - Michael Martin Dec 30, 2001 Picture the daffodil. And while you do that, I'll be over here going through your stuff. Picture a world without war, without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they would never expect it.
Sonork ID 100.10002:MeanManOz
I live in Bob's HungOut now
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I do the cocked-eyebrow-blank-face-"why are you saying this to me?"-look. It does work sometimes. The rest was hilarious! :laugh: do you really do that? "All great truths begin as blasphemies." -George Bernard Shaw
Some are very persistent... I like, "What did I say that sounded like "Tell me about your day"?" Stolen from Dogbert, of course, but he's a good and wise example of how to deal with life's annoying people:laugh: When all else fails, use the twirling wedgie! It won't always accomplish what you want, but it is almost always immensely gratifying...
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The *only* thing you can do is to tell people to get over themselves. I mean, fair dinkum, the world does not revolve around any one persons troubles, and in my experience people like this don't want to be happy, they want something to bitch about. Christian I have come to clean zee pooollll. - Michael Martin Dec 30, 2001 Picture the daffodil. And while you do that, I'll be over here going through your stuff. Picture a world without war, without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they would never expect it.
Sonork ID 100.10002:MeanManOz
I live in Bob's HungOut now
****Christian Graus wrote: experience people like this don't want to be happy, they want something to bitch about. So true! And so very sad for them... :((
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Christian Graus wrote: "...it was still small enough to be easy to smother with a pillow. " I hope you don't let her baby-sit! "All great truths begin as blasphemies." -George Bernard Shaw
qomi wrote: Christian Graus wrote: "...it was still small enough to be easy to smother with a pillow. " I hope you don't let her baby-sit! *grin* like I said, every time we visit she's negative until Hannah starts loving her. I know it's all bluster, and she knows I would go to jail for murder before letting anyone live if they permanenty harmed my children. Christian I have come to clean zee pooollll. - Michael Martin Dec 30, 2001 Picture the daffodil. And while you do that, I'll be over here going through your stuff. Picture a world without war, without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they would never expect it.
Sonork ID 100.10002:MeanManOz
I live in Bob's HungOut now
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qomi wrote: Hmmm...yeah, that's what I've been thinking. But why? Because thinking their unhappiness is someone elses fault is so much easier than taking a chance at doing something about it. Because there is comfort in feeling sorry for yourself, that it's not your fault and you could have been so much more if life was not against you. My mother has a standard speech which is basically 'I've been treated so badly for so long that I have no emotions anymore'. Another was 'I hate kids, so don't show me your kids because they won't like me, they can sense I hate them.' When she met Hannah the first time Hannah was unsure ( of course ), and Mum said 'I don't mind, I hate kids'. Hannah loved Mum and soon Mum couldn't get enough of her, offered to mind her for the day while we went out, etc. It's a defence mechanism. She wanted Hannah to love her and was terrified she wouldn't, so she prepared by telling herself she didn't care. Christian I have come to clean zee pooollll. - Michael Martin Dec 30, 2001 Picture the daffodil. And while you do that, I'll be over here going through your stuff. Picture a world without war, without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they would never expect it.
Sonork ID 100.10002:MeanManOz
I live in Bob's HungOut now
It's a defence mechanism. She wanted Hannah to love her and was terrified she wouldn't, so she prepared by telling herself she didn't care. That describes the way I handle most of the things in my life. It's stupid too, 'cause I am constantly telling myself that I shouldn't. However, it's not something you can overcome, or at least if you can, no one’s bothered to tell me how. It's a physiological thing – it probably has some technical name, and for me it stems from my own childhood problems, which again stem from the stupidest of things. I have the problem now in that I have to constantly and consciously push myself to, for example, socialise with my friends, because subconsciously I am telling myself that they don’t really want to be friends with me (as in “why would they want to be”), so why bother. I have not been in a relationship for over a year now, as I can’t approach people - that was one of the reasons we went our separate ways. Add to that a combination of too much self-consciousness and a lack of self-esteem, again stemming from my childhood. They say kids can be cruel, but if you’ve never been subjected to it yourself then you really have no f**king idea what that means. Never underestimate the power of the mind. It can easily go wrong, but fixing it is nigh on impossible. All I can do is accept it and learn to work with it. If you asked me, I would say I am perfectly happy with my life and with myself, even though my mind tells me otherwise. In reality however, I am slowly but surely torturing myself each and every day over the stupidest of things. Indeed right now, as I am typing this, I am having difficulty being moderate with my descriptions. :| You should sit down with all of your family and lay everything out on the table. You are unlikely to accomplish anything, but if they are at all like myself, they will try (and want more than anything) to express themselves freely and truly. It’s too easy to mistake what [they] want to convey with what [they] seem to convey. ________________ David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group, there was less competition there" - Gandhi
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Whoops. I am running two PC's side by side, one to play music and surf and the other to do some work before I go away. I just typed your reply onto the other PC ( not on the network) Try again.... My mother has been miserable my whole life. I was always told she stayed with my father for the kids, she claims my dad beats her ( this was the WORST, because I know she exaggerates/lies, but I also know my father has a temper, so I didn't really know how to approach this. ), and on and on. She has so little idea of real life that when she was in a 'disown your sister' phase, she sent her a registered letter, telling her not to talk to my mum again. She thought this meant my sister would be put in jail if she did, because it was a registered letter. We discussed it for ages, then she spoke to Donna, and moments later I hear her saying to my Mum ' that's not what a registered letter DOES '... My father on the other hand assumes all women are stupid. When he stays with us, he asks Donna something, then comes to ask me because he does not believe her. I have to work hard not to accidently contradict her, and in fact tell him often to ask Donna because she knows better than me. It doesn't help that she refuses to heat his milk and make his corn flakes in the morning... So the point is neither of them seem to know which way is up and I'm sure she has no idea that I don't really listen to the latest installment. They are all the same anyhow, so it's not like I can't respond to what she says, I know it before she starts - either my sister is trash and a liar, or the world is against my poor sister. Currently my sister blames every problem in her life on me hitting her ( as in once, not on a continual basis ) with a stick when I was 5 and she was 3. Christian I have come to clean zee pooollll. - Michael Martin Dec 30, 2001 Picture the daffodil. And while you do that, I'll be over here going through your stuff. Picture a world without war, without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they would never expect it.
Sonork ID 100.10002:MeanManOz
I live in Bob's HungOut now
****Christian Graus wrote: It doesn't help that she refuses to heat his milk and make his corn flakes in the morning... She doesn't? And You married her? Christian! Seriously though that totally sucks (the other stuff, not the non-cornflake milk heating debacle) cheers, Chris Maunder
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It's a defence mechanism. She wanted Hannah to love her and was terrified she wouldn't, so she prepared by telling herself she didn't care. That describes the way I handle most of the things in my life. It's stupid too, 'cause I am constantly telling myself that I shouldn't. However, it's not something you can overcome, or at least if you can, no one’s bothered to tell me how. It's a physiological thing – it probably has some technical name, and for me it stems from my own childhood problems, which again stem from the stupidest of things. I have the problem now in that I have to constantly and consciously push myself to, for example, socialise with my friends, because subconsciously I am telling myself that they don’t really want to be friends with me (as in “why would they want to be”), so why bother. I have not been in a relationship for over a year now, as I can’t approach people - that was one of the reasons we went our separate ways. Add to that a combination of too much self-consciousness and a lack of self-esteem, again stemming from my childhood. They say kids can be cruel, but if you’ve never been subjected to it yourself then you really have no f**king idea what that means. Never underestimate the power of the mind. It can easily go wrong, but fixing it is nigh on impossible. All I can do is accept it and learn to work with it. If you asked me, I would say I am perfectly happy with my life and with myself, even though my mind tells me otherwise. In reality however, I am slowly but surely torturing myself each and every day over the stupidest of things. Indeed right now, as I am typing this, I am having difficulty being moderate with my descriptions. :| You should sit down with all of your family and lay everything out on the table. You are unlikely to accomplish anything, but if they are at all like myself, they will try (and want more than anything) to express themselves freely and truly. It’s too easy to mistake what [they] want to convey with what [they] seem to convey. ________________ David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group, there was less competition there" - Gandhi
I know what my mother ( and you ) are going through, I was exactly the same. In my case I changed completely when I became a Christian ( as in one moment I was miserable and convinced no-one liked me, the next I was happy and didn't care who chose to like me ). That obviously gives me no real perspective on how to overcome such a problem without divine intervention. I really feel sorry for my mum, but I've tried to force the issue, and to her it boils down to her belief that my father is mentally ill. She can't see anything beyond that and it only causes grief to try and explore the situation. I had a hell of a childhood, and it sounds like maybe you did too, but in my mothers case I think the problem is a lot deeper. Christian I have come to clean zee pooollll. - Michael Martin Dec 30, 2001 Picture the daffodil. And while you do that, I'll be over here going through your stuff. Picture a world without war, without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they would never expect it.
Sonork ID 100.10002:MeanManOz
I live in Bob's HungOut now
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****Christian Graus wrote: It doesn't help that she refuses to heat his milk and make his corn flakes in the morning... She doesn't? And You married her? Christian! Seriously though that totally sucks (the other stuff, not the non-cornflake milk heating debacle) cheers, Chris Maunder
Chris Maunder wrote: Seriously though that totally sucks (the other stuff, not the non-cornflake milk heating debacle) The beauty of it is I have an excuse. Many people when they find out about my childhood and my first wife leaving me for my best friend &tc ( which I only mention in the context of funny stories, and only to people who I know well, so you know I don't go around whinging about it ) they generally say something like 'I used to wonder why you're so strange, now I wonder why you're so normal'. So I can act any way I like :-) Seriously though, it does suck and the only up side is that my kids do pretty well out of the fact that I constantly try to make sure I don't make any of the mistakes my parents did ( which included spoiling my sister, and denying me any sort of affection ever ). It's kind of like the Berenstain Bears - they showed me what not to do to raise happy kids... Christian I have come to clean zee pooollll. - Michael Martin Dec 30, 2001 Picture the daffodil. And while you do that, I'll be over here going through your stuff. Picture a world without war, without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they would never expect it.
Sonork ID 100.10002:MeanManOz
I live in Bob's HungOut now
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I know what my mother ( and you ) are going through, I was exactly the same. In my case I changed completely when I became a Christian ( as in one moment I was miserable and convinced no-one liked me, the next I was happy and didn't care who chose to like me ). That obviously gives me no real perspective on how to overcome such a problem without divine intervention. I really feel sorry for my mum, but I've tried to force the issue, and to her it boils down to her belief that my father is mentally ill. She can't see anything beyond that and it only causes grief to try and explore the situation. I had a hell of a childhood, and it sounds like maybe you did too, but in my mothers case I think the problem is a lot deeper. Christian I have come to clean zee pooollll. - Michael Martin Dec 30, 2001 Picture the daffodil. And while you do that, I'll be over here going through your stuff. Picture a world without war, without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they would never expect it.
Sonork ID 100.10002:MeanManOz
I live in Bob's HungOut now
****Christian Graus wrote: as in one moment I was miserable and convinced no-one liked me, the next I was happy and didn't care who chose to like me That is not what I am going through. I am not convince no-one likes me (hell, I know I have friends, and I know they must like me, it's just that my mind tells me that they shouldn't like me, and a side effect of that is that I close up and become a social hermit around them until I consciously figure out I am doing it again and force myself not to. Without meaning any disrespect to my friends, I will admit that they are all similar people. They aren't necessarily like me in this respect, but they are a prime bunch of outcasts. There again you can see my problem emerging. This is my minds attempt to justify our friendships. :(( In reality I expect they are much the same as anyone else, but that is not why I am friends with them. I am friends with them because I enjoy their company in general. A few years ago my father, who obviously picked up on this, just dropped a piece of advice into general conversation. He said to me "When I was your age (back in 1846...) I was shy, but then one day I just got fed up with it and said to myself f**k it." In my family we *never* swear in conversation, and the way that was phrased caused it to instantly burn into my mind. And although basic shyness isn't the source of my problems, that advice has proved invaluable. And so that is exactly what I do do - tell myself f**k it, get over it you fool. And 9/10 it works. ****Christian Graus wrote: That obviously gives me no real perspective on how to overcome such a problem without divine intervention. (Another case of an effect looking for a cause.) It's not a case of overcoming, it's a case of understanding. Both for the people directly involved, and for those around them. ****Christian Graus wrote: I had a hell of a childhood, and it sounds like maybe you did too, but in my mothers case I think the problem is a lot deeper. Obviously I cannot directly talk about your mother based on two sentences of text in another reply, but I am not convinced our childhoods are linked in that sort of way. One major problem, and as I believe it now to be the cause of difficulty (and I mean difficulty) with socialising and fitting in with other people, was caused by moving schools when I was young. Between th
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****Christian Graus wrote: as in one moment I was miserable and convinced no-one liked me, the next I was happy and didn't care who chose to like me That is not what I am going through. I am not convince no-one likes me (hell, I know I have friends, and I know they must like me, it's just that my mind tells me that they shouldn't like me, and a side effect of that is that I close up and become a social hermit around them until I consciously figure out I am doing it again and force myself not to. Without meaning any disrespect to my friends, I will admit that they are all similar people. They aren't necessarily like me in this respect, but they are a prime bunch of outcasts. There again you can see my problem emerging. This is my minds attempt to justify our friendships. :(( In reality I expect they are much the same as anyone else, but that is not why I am friends with them. I am friends with them because I enjoy their company in general. A few years ago my father, who obviously picked up on this, just dropped a piece of advice into general conversation. He said to me "When I was your age (back in 1846...) I was shy, but then one day I just got fed up with it and said to myself f**k it." In my family we *never* swear in conversation, and the way that was phrased caused it to instantly burn into my mind. And although basic shyness isn't the source of my problems, that advice has proved invaluable. And so that is exactly what I do do - tell myself f**k it, get over it you fool. And 9/10 it works. ****Christian Graus wrote: That obviously gives me no real perspective on how to overcome such a problem without divine intervention. (Another case of an effect looking for a cause.) It's not a case of overcoming, it's a case of understanding. Both for the people directly involved, and for those around them. ****Christian Graus wrote: I had a hell of a childhood, and it sounds like maybe you did too, but in my mothers case I think the problem is a lot deeper. Obviously I cannot directly talk about your mother based on two sentences of text in another reply, but I am not convinced our childhoods are linked in that sort of way. One major problem, and as I believe it now to be the cause of difficulty (and I mean difficulty) with socialising and fitting in with other people, was caused by moving schools when I was young. Between th
David Wulff wrote: That is not what I am going through. I am not convince no-one likes me (hell, I know I have friends, and I know they must like me, it's just that my mind tells me that they shouldn't like me, and a side effect of that is that I close up and become a social hermit around them until I consciously figure out I am doing it again and force myself not to. OK - I had friends and I was still convinced they only spent time with me out of pity. It's quite pathetic in hindsight, but I was told from birth I was an unwanted child and I was treated as such. It's no wonder I had no self worth. David Wulff wrote: Without meaning any disrespect to my friends, I will admit that they are all similar people. They aren't necessarily like me in this respect, but they are a prime bunch of outcasts. Me too, but let's face it, being half intelligent makes me an outcast in Tasmania, I can only image what it does for you in Tiverton... David Wulff wrote: (Another case of an effect looking for a cause.) It's not a case of overcoming, it's a case of understanding. Both for the people directly involved, and for those around them. I didn't expect to get away with that one :-) In my case I literally could not socially function. I hid from the world and played with my computer. I had been through a slew of psychologists and psychiatrists, which didn't help much. The difference I am referring to is marked enough that my mother, who does not go to church, refers to it as an obvious event in my life. David Wulff wrote: Obviously I cannot directly talk about your mother based on two sentences of text in another reply, but I am not convinced our childhoods are linked in that sort of way. Reading what follows it seems unlikely. My problems were in place before I started school. I knew I was a worthless mistake and so acted accordingly. As there is nothing more attractive than confidence, being convinced you are nothing convinces other people pretty quickly. I got teased and beat up a *lot* in school. David Wulff wrote: From that day onwards I can honestly say I have never knowingly stolen or mixed with people like that – I can still see that look, and it still brings me to tears. That also added to my current situation, probably in a similar fashion to your problems with your parents. I was convinced I was a failure, and again had no reason to
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Christian Graus wrote: "in my experience people like this don't want to be happy" Hmmm...yeah, that's what I've been thinking. But why? :confused: "All great truths begin as blasphemies." -George Bernard Shaw
I've recently read "The Celestine Prophecy" by James Redfield, which is a terrible piece of literature, but it had some interesting ideas. One of the major subjects of the book is "his" explanation of how people use each other to "steal" energy. Basically, he is using the concept of four "control dramas". This is not a new concept in psychology, as far as I know. The idea is that each person has their own control drama pattern to try to extract energy out of the other people. Four control dramas are: 1. Intimidators. People who using scare tactics to get your energy. Sometimes it is just on psychology level sometimes it goes into the physical abuse. 2. Interrogators. People who are constantly asking you all kind of questions about you and your life in order to show you that you are wrong. This is their way to trick you out of the energy. 3. Aloof people. People who are try to avoid direct questions and being vague all the time forcing you to keep asking and paying them attention. 4. Poor me. That is the kind who are just playing victim all the time in order to draw your attention and energy. According to this idea. There is a matching control drama for each category. In other words, in order for Intimidator's scheme to work the other person have to start playing a "Poor me" drama. Interrogator need an aloof person. Their solution to the problem is to refuse to play the matching control drama. If someone trying to play a "poor me" or "aloof" with you instead of intimidating or interrogating them you need to directly show them that you are on to them and you are not going to play their stupid game. Playing their game means to give them what they want. I don't know if this really works in the real life. I guess, ignoring people who are trying to drain your energy when you are not willing to give it is the best thing to do. Just my few cents. :)
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David Wulff wrote: That is not what I am going through. I am not convince no-one likes me (hell, I know I have friends, and I know they must like me, it's just that my mind tells me that they shouldn't like me, and a side effect of that is that I close up and become a social hermit around them until I consciously figure out I am doing it again and force myself not to. OK - I had friends and I was still convinced they only spent time with me out of pity. It's quite pathetic in hindsight, but I was told from birth I was an unwanted child and I was treated as such. It's no wonder I had no self worth. David Wulff wrote: Without meaning any disrespect to my friends, I will admit that they are all similar people. They aren't necessarily like me in this respect, but they are a prime bunch of outcasts. Me too, but let's face it, being half intelligent makes me an outcast in Tasmania, I can only image what it does for you in Tiverton... David Wulff wrote: (Another case of an effect looking for a cause.) It's not a case of overcoming, it's a case of understanding. Both for the people directly involved, and for those around them. I didn't expect to get away with that one :-) In my case I literally could not socially function. I hid from the world and played with my computer. I had been through a slew of psychologists and psychiatrists, which didn't help much. The difference I am referring to is marked enough that my mother, who does not go to church, refers to it as an obvious event in my life. David Wulff wrote: Obviously I cannot directly talk about your mother based on two sentences of text in another reply, but I am not convinced our childhoods are linked in that sort of way. Reading what follows it seems unlikely. My problems were in place before I started school. I knew I was a worthless mistake and so acted accordingly. As there is nothing more attractive than confidence, being convinced you are nothing convinces other people pretty quickly. I got teased and beat up a *lot* in school. David Wulff wrote: From that day onwards I can honestly say I have never knowingly stolen or mixed with people like that – I can still see that look, and it still brings me to tears. That also added to my current situation, probably in a similar fashion to your problems with your parents. I was convinced I was a failure, and again had no reason to
****Christian Graus wrote: It's quite pathetic in hindsight, but I was told from birth I was an unwanted child and I was treated as such. It's not pathetic at all, just sad, in the non insulting meaning of the world. ****Christian Graus wrote: I can only image what it does for you in Tiverton... I moved to Tiverton reasonbly late in my legal-childhood (as I am still very much a kid), and so far have been on the up ever since leaving high school. I suppose when you are thown head first into a society where you need to interact too survive, you pick up quickly. It's the forgetting what has been ingrained in your life and mind since the day of your conception that is impossible. ****Christian Graus wrote: In my case I literally could not socially function. I hid from the world and played with my computer. I had been through a slew of psychologists and psychiatrists, which didn't help much. The difference I am referring to is marked enough that my mother, who does not go to church, refers to it as an obvious event in my life. I know what you mean all too well. :| However, I could never take the same solution you did, as I am also physically unable to accept anything as truth without - by my logic - credible proof, or at least proof of a possiblity of a god. However, this is not the place to start another religious debate. (I need sleep) ;) ****Christian Graus wrote: Reading what follows it seems unlikely. My problems were in place before I started school. I knew I was a worthless mistake and so acted accordingly. As there is nothing more attractive than confidence, being convinced you are nothing convinces other people pretty quickly. I got teased and beat up a *lot* in school. I'm sorry to hear about your school experiences (I did not pick up quite what you meant from previous replies). It would seem that in that respect, despite you physically being hurt and myself being emotionally destroyed - as if there is any difference - this seems to be another ting we have in common. Unfortunately this one is not funny. ****Christian Graus wrote: In this I am the reverse, I did my best to achieve because I felt it was my fault they didn't love me, that I needed to do better. I got 95% in a test once and was asked where the other 5% went..... Ouch. :(( I can star
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****Christian Graus wrote: It's quite pathetic in hindsight, but I was told from birth I was an unwanted child and I was treated as such. It's not pathetic at all, just sad, in the non insulting meaning of the world. ****Christian Graus wrote: I can only image what it does for you in Tiverton... I moved to Tiverton reasonbly late in my legal-childhood (as I am still very much a kid), and so far have been on the up ever since leaving high school. I suppose when you are thown head first into a society where you need to interact too survive, you pick up quickly. It's the forgetting what has been ingrained in your life and mind since the day of your conception that is impossible. ****Christian Graus wrote: In my case I literally could not socially function. I hid from the world and played with my computer. I had been through a slew of psychologists and psychiatrists, which didn't help much. The difference I am referring to is marked enough that my mother, who does not go to church, refers to it as an obvious event in my life. I know what you mean all too well. :| However, I could never take the same solution you did, as I am also physically unable to accept anything as truth without - by my logic - credible proof, or at least proof of a possiblity of a god. However, this is not the place to start another religious debate. (I need sleep) ;) ****Christian Graus wrote: Reading what follows it seems unlikely. My problems were in place before I started school. I knew I was a worthless mistake and so acted accordingly. As there is nothing more attractive than confidence, being convinced you are nothing convinces other people pretty quickly. I got teased and beat up a *lot* in school. I'm sorry to hear about your school experiences (I did not pick up quite what you meant from previous replies). It would seem that in that respect, despite you physically being hurt and myself being emotionally destroyed - as if there is any difference - this seems to be another ting we have in common. Unfortunately this one is not funny. ****Christian Graus wrote: In this I am the reverse, I did my best to achieve because I felt it was my fault they didn't love me, that I needed to do better. I got 95% in a test once and was asked where the other 5% went..... Ouch. :(( I can star
David Wulff wrote: However, I could never take the same solution you did, as I am also physically unable to accept anything as truth without - by my logic - credible proof, or at least proof of a possiblity of a god. However, this is not the place to start another religious debate. I won't bother mentioning that my conversion came with Bible specified proof again then ? :-) David Wulff wrote: despite you physically being hurt and myself being emotionally destroyed - as if there is any difference - this seems to be another ting we have in common. Unfortunately this one is not funny. No, even I can't think of any jokes to make on this one. And I agree - there is no real difference. David Wulff wrote: I doubt I would be here today if I thought my parents didn't love me. I would have thought you had good parents because in a thread on parenting your comments left me feeling you would most certainly be a good father. Having had lousy parents, I thought I knew how to be a good father, but until I had kids, I didn't have anywhere near the insight you displayed. David Wulff wrote: But how do you ignore the person when it is yourself? Some days I feel like I have a demon and an angel sitting on my shoulders, each telling me the opposite. I know what you mean, although it's been 10 years since I felt that way. As I said, the nature of my experience doesn't leave me room for any practical comment. David Wulff wrote: I don't know who said this to me, or where I read it, but the only thought I have to fall back on no matter what life has thrown at me is that someone, somewhere is worse off than me, and they are still fighting on. Really, to me it's not a matter of if I win each individual battle or not, but if I've done my best to fight the war. Sometimes bad things just happen ( like my wife and my best (only) friend both leaving my life on the same day. I use humour as a defence, ( and I know it ), but really, the only thing I could do was hope to learn from the experience and get on with it. Regardless of what happens, 'that which does not kill me only makes me stronger'. David Wulff wrote: Oh what I wouldn't give to be a butterfly. They die after a week. Actually, my daughter tried to pick one up the other day by the wings and came running to say 'daddy, this butterfly is stupid, it was made of powder'. Po
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I've recently read "The Celestine Prophecy" by James Redfield, which is a terrible piece of literature, but it had some interesting ideas. One of the major subjects of the book is "his" explanation of how people use each other to "steal" energy. Basically, he is using the concept of four "control dramas". This is not a new concept in psychology, as far as I know. The idea is that each person has their own control drama pattern to try to extract energy out of the other people. Four control dramas are: 1. Intimidators. People who using scare tactics to get your energy. Sometimes it is just on psychology level sometimes it goes into the physical abuse. 2. Interrogators. People who are constantly asking you all kind of questions about you and your life in order to show you that you are wrong. This is their way to trick you out of the energy. 3. Aloof people. People who are try to avoid direct questions and being vague all the time forcing you to keep asking and paying them attention. 4. Poor me. That is the kind who are just playing victim all the time in order to draw your attention and energy. According to this idea. There is a matching control drama for each category. In other words, in order for Intimidator's scheme to work the other person have to start playing a "Poor me" drama. Interrogator need an aloof person. Their solution to the problem is to refuse to play the matching control drama. If someone trying to play a "poor me" or "aloof" with you instead of intimidating or interrogating them you need to directly show them that you are on to them and you are not going to play their stupid game. Playing their game means to give them what they want. I don't know if this really works in the real life. I guess, ignoring people who are trying to drain your energy when you are not willing to give it is the best thing to do. Just my few cents. :)
Konstantin Vasserman wrote: "....'The Celestine Prophecy' by James Redfield, which is a terrible piece of literature,..." Really? Do you mean that you like the book's concepts, but not the writing style? I've heard so much about it, and it is always positive. Thanks for the info. That's very interesting. I might have to read that book. :-) "All great truths begin as blasphemies." -George Bernard Shaw
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Konstantin Vasserman wrote: "....'The Celestine Prophecy' by James Redfield, which is a terrible piece of literature,..." Really? Do you mean that you like the book's concepts, but not the writing style? I've heard so much about it, and it is always positive. Thanks for the info. That's very interesting. I might have to read that book. :-) "All great truths begin as blasphemies." -George Bernard Shaw
qomi wrote: Do you mean that you like the book's concepts, but not the writing style? The writing style is pretty bad IMO. Basically, author had this idea that he has developed a "new" theory about where the world of human beings should come to in the near future. The whole new philosophy if you will. But he was not sure how to introduce it to people, because if he was to just write it all down as his own ideas it will never fly. So he had created this cute "cover" story about this ancient manuscript that supposedly been found in Peru that describes "new way of life" in its 9 insights. So now it is not coming from the author, but from some ancient mysterious prophecy. The whole story is just "artificially" made up to explain all authors ideas. Most of his ideas are not new, but some of them are brought into an interesting prospective. In any case, book is just over 200 pages, so it is an easy over-the-weekend read. The worst case scenario - you just loose a few hours of you time. :)