Sad State of Education
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That settles it. When I have kids, I'm sending them to a private school. "What would this country be without this great land of our?" -Ronald Reagan
That settles it. When I have kids, I'm sending them to a private school. Actually, we're considering homeschooling for exactly the same reason. I have a hard time imagining that we can't teach a sane superset of what the public education system requires... Tim Lesher http://www.lesher.ws
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That settles it. When I have kids, I'm sending them to a private school. Actually, we're considering homeschooling for exactly the same reason. I have a hard time imagining that we can't teach a sane superset of what the public education system requires... Tim Lesher http://www.lesher.ws
I know a family here that does it, and his kids (grade-school age) are testing at high-school levels. What does that say about today's "offical" educational systems? "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
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I went to Virginia for an interview. Between links I was sat in a bar and this guy started chatting to me? "Where ya from?" "England." "Is that near Germany?" "Oooh, you've got some wierd money there." "It's a five pound note." "Don't you use US Dollars in England then?" I just wouldn't have beleived these questions were real unless I'd ersonally been asked them. The guy may be a stereotype, but hey what a sterotype! I thought he was joking at first. Jeremy Davis http://www.astad.org
Jeremy Davis wrote: Between links I was sat in a bar and this guy started chatting to me In the Southern U.S., bars are not typically considered the kinds of places intelligent people hang out in, and certainly not the kind of place you would want to engage in an enligtening discussion of any subject. (Still, I'm pretty damned sure the guys was just trying to get your goat :-D. It is sort of an artform over here. Looks like he got it). "Thank you, thank you very much" Elvis. "Thank you, thank you very much" Elvis.
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote: I find it utterly unbelievable that some people think that early eductation is not supposed to do more that provide bullet points of history with no basis for the facts. This country is doomed. I agree 100%! We (the U.S.) are going to "politically correct" ourselves into oblivion if we aren't careful. For what it's worth, my kids go to a pretty good public school system (rural Illinois) that spends a lot of time on US history in pretty good detail. However, on other subjects where details may be lacking, my wife and I make sure they get more information at home.
Mike Mullikin - Sonork 100.10096 "Programming is like sex. One mistake and you have to support it for the rest of your life." - Michael Sinz
Sorry, meant that reply for Jeremy. Keeps putting it under yours. :confused: "Thank you, thank you very much" Elvis.
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I heard on the radio today that New Jersey schools are taking steps to trivialize, dilute, and even twist (with a definite anti-American bent) U.S. history. For instance, they have reduced the five years of WW2 to three incidents - the holocaust, the internment of the Japanese in the U.S., and the use of nuclear weapons against Japan. They will not be teaching the events that led up to U.S. involvment in the war (and yes, that includes the vicious sneak attack on our fleet in Pearl Harbor), nor the involvment of American volunteers helping in the defense of Great Britain during the Blitzkrieg, nor even our attempts to stay out of the war. Further, they are removing pictures of our founding fathers from state and local government buildings, and won't be teaching the kids about the pilgrims because of the religious bearing of the subject. I find it utterly unbelievable that some people think that early eductation is not supposed to do more that provide bullet points of history with no basis for the facts. This country is doomed. "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
Hello, you in the US are not the only ones with a degenerating education system. In the last PISA test (compares knowledge in Math, mastering of foreign and native languages etc.) Germanys and Switzerlands kids have performed pretty bad. And both countries where known for their good education systems in ancient times (some 15 years ago) So I think this is a trend much more widely spread in the western countries, than anybody likes to believe. I am a signature virus! Help me spread and copy me to your sig! Ooops I am infected
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I heard on the radio today that New Jersey schools are taking steps to trivialize, dilute, and even twist (with a definite anti-American bent) U.S. history. For instance, they have reduced the five years of WW2 to three incidents - the holocaust, the internment of the Japanese in the U.S., and the use of nuclear weapons against Japan. They will not be teaching the events that led up to U.S. involvment in the war (and yes, that includes the vicious sneak attack on our fleet in Pearl Harbor), nor the involvment of American volunteers helping in the defense of Great Britain during the Blitzkrieg, nor even our attempts to stay out of the war. Further, they are removing pictures of our founding fathers from state and local government buildings, and won't be teaching the kids about the pilgrims because of the religious bearing of the subject. I find it utterly unbelievable that some people think that early eductation is not supposed to do more that provide bullet points of history with no basis for the facts. This country is doomed. "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
Welcome to New Jersey. I'm sure that this was someone's genius idea for social engineering. Here are a few other tidbits to get your blood pressure up: - Only 25% of the high school seniors in Newark passed the minimum requirements for graduation. - Newark school system was taken over by the state. One billion in state and federal tax dollars is being pumped into Newark schools per year. - They are cutting out various manual arts programs (wood shop, sewing classes, etc) and replacing them with art and art appreciation classes. Poetry is more important than learning how to fix the toilet. - BB guns and slingshots are illegal in NJ. - Drivers exams are offered in something like 30 languages. You don't need to know how to read or speak english to drive in NJ. - Any area of ground that has water on it for more than 180 days per year was considered a wetland by the states Department of Environmental Protection. Puddles in peoples yards have been labled "Protected Wetlands". - They cannot dredge the NY / NJ harbor area because the spoils are contaminated. Instead they are letting one of the largest harbors in the world silt up. The lawmakers in NJ come from a pampered liberal elite that is completely out of touch with the other 95% of the state. They are always shocked and amazed that people aren't buying into whatever social program is fashionable that day. But then again they don't have to eat the crap they dish out to others.
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I went to Virginia for an interview. Between links I was sat in a bar and this guy started chatting to me? "Where ya from?" "England." "Is that near Germany?" "Oooh, you've got some wierd money there." "It's a five pound note." "Don't you use US Dollars in England then?" I just wouldn't have beleived these questions were real unless I'd ersonally been asked them. The guy may be a stereotype, but hey what a sterotype! I thought he was joking at first. Jeremy Davis http://www.astad.org
What irritates me also is people who simply don't understand the different between "Britain" and "England". I've lost count of the number of times i've told people where i'm from (which is Wales), yet they continue to refer to my country as England. Simon "Does the room have a CView?" Sonork ID 100.10024
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I quite agree, John. I hate to sound paranoid, but does it occur to you that one of the first steps toward subjugating a society is to first control what the people know? Just because I'm paranoid doesn't necessarily mean that they're not out to get me... I was raised in California, before it became another Peoples' Republic, at a time when it had one of the finest educational systems in the world. It has since degenerated into a polically correct propaganda dispenser that teaches little but the liberal agenda. Here in Arizona I was at first appalled by the ignorance of the young, until I met some teachers. We can't even pass a law requiring a standardized test, primarily because the teachers can't pass it! :mad: So what can be done? I don't know how to reverse the trend so long as the Great Unwashed continue to vote for tea and circuses. For my part, I do a lot of volunteer work with children, and try to pass on the value of education and knowledge to them. Happily I find that their thirst for knowledge is still as great as my own was at that age. Hopefully they will find the knowledge they need to survive somewhere outside of the schools. Those who do not learn from history are condemned to repeat it.
Roger Wright wrote: Those who do not learn from history are condemned to repeat it. I believe this should be "Those who do not learn from history ... teach it." Dave "You can say that again." -- Dept. of Redundancy Dept.
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What irritates me also is people who simply don't understand the different between "Britain" and "England". I've lost count of the number of times i've told people where i'm from (which is Wales), yet they continue to refer to my country as England. Simon "Does the room have a CView?" Sonork ID 100.10024
Simon Walton wrote: What irritates me also is people who simply don't understand the different between "Britain" and "England". I've lost count of the number of times i've told people where i'm from (which is Wales), yet they continue to refer to my country as England. A few years ago I had to clean-up my company's client database and found the following countries listed: England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland, Britain, Great Britain, and United Kingdom I asked our sales reps, "Why so many variations?" Their response, "That's the way their company letterhead's read." I started digging out historical correspondence and sure enough, some companies in the same cities had completely different "countries" printed on their company letterhead. One company in particular had sent us letters from their manufacturing office and their headquarters located on opposite sides of the same city. One said England and the other said United Kingdom. :confused: I figure if the brits can't figure out where the hell they live, why should we try? ;P
Mike Mullikin - Sonork 100.10096 "Programming is like sex. One mistake and you have to support it for the rest of your life." - Michael Sinz
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That settles it. When I have kids, I'm sending them to a private school. Actually, we're considering homeschooling for exactly the same reason. I have a hard time imagining that we can't teach a sane superset of what the public education system requires... Tim Lesher http://www.lesher.ws
Tim Lesher wrote: Actually, we're considering homeschooling for exactly the same reason. I have a hard time imagining that we can't teach a sane superset of what the public education system requires... FWIW - Some concerns I've had about the whole homeschooling process: 1. It's hard to imagine that two parents can match the breadth of subjects taught in a formal school. (ie. The kids may be math whizzes because daddy is a programmer, but may not know how to conjugate a verb or write an organized paragraph). 2. The kids miss the social interaction they would normally see in a school. 3. Lack of direct exposure to different cultures and races. 4. Lack of extra-ciricular activities (music, sports, etc..)
Mike Mullikin - Sonork 100.10096 "Programming is like sex. One mistake and you have to support it for the rest of your life." - Michael Sinz
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I heard on the radio today that New Jersey schools are taking steps to trivialize, dilute, and even twist (with a definite anti-American bent) U.S. history. For instance, they have reduced the five years of WW2 to three incidents - the holocaust, the internment of the Japanese in the U.S., and the use of nuclear weapons against Japan. They will not be teaching the events that led up to U.S. involvment in the war (and yes, that includes the vicious sneak attack on our fleet in Pearl Harbor), nor the involvment of American volunteers helping in the defense of Great Britain during the Blitzkrieg, nor even our attempts to stay out of the war. Further, they are removing pictures of our founding fathers from state and local government buildings, and won't be teaching the kids about the pilgrims because of the religious bearing of the subject. I find it utterly unbelievable that some people think that early eductation is not supposed to do more that provide bullet points of history with no basis for the facts. This country is doomed. "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
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Simon Walton wrote: What irritates me also is people who simply don't understand the different between "Britain" and "England". I've lost count of the number of times i've told people where i'm from (which is Wales), yet they continue to refer to my country as England. A few years ago I had to clean-up my company's client database and found the following countries listed: England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland, Britain, Great Britain, and United Kingdom I asked our sales reps, "Why so many variations?" Their response, "That's the way their company letterhead's read." I started digging out historical correspondence and sure enough, some companies in the same cities had completely different "countries" printed on their company letterhead. One company in particular had sent us letters from their manufacturing office and their headquarters located on opposite sides of the same city. One said England and the other said United Kingdom. :confused: I figure if the brits can't figure out where the hell they live, why should we try? ;P
Mike Mullikin - Sonork 100.10096 "Programming is like sex. One mistake and you have to support it for the rest of your life." - Michael Sinz
Mike Mullikin wrote: I figure if the brits can't figure out where the hell they live, why should we try? Nah - we just like to keep the rest of the world guessing. ;P Andy Metcalfe - Sonardyne International Ltd
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"I would be careful in separating your wierdness, a good quirky weirdness, from the disturbed wierdness of people who take pleasure from PVC sheep with fruit repositories." - Paul Watson -
Tim Lesher wrote: Actually, we're considering homeschooling for exactly the same reason. I have a hard time imagining that we can't teach a sane superset of what the public education system requires... FWIW - Some concerns I've had about the whole homeschooling process: 1. It's hard to imagine that two parents can match the breadth of subjects taught in a formal school. (ie. The kids may be math whizzes because daddy is a programmer, but may not know how to conjugate a verb or write an organized paragraph). 2. The kids miss the social interaction they would normally see in a school. 3. Lack of direct exposure to different cultures and races. 4. Lack of extra-ciricular activities (music, sports, etc..)
Mike Mullikin - Sonork 100.10096 "Programming is like sex. One mistake and you have to support it for the rest of your life." - Michael Sinz
Just a quick response, since I know a few families that homeschool. 1. Parents have a lot of resources available for covering whatever needs to be taught -- including close friends, tutors, etc. 2 - 4. All of these can be directly handled by the parent finding extra-curricular activities. Home-schooled doesn't mean that they stay locked up in the house all day. In fact, many of the home schooled kids I know do better in social situations that most public shooled kids. I don't have kids yet (not by choice), but I'm sure we would use home schooling during part of their school age years. (Different children may do better in different situations, so we could end up with a mix of public, private, and home schooling all at the same time if we had enough children.) John
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I heard on the radio today that New Jersey schools are taking steps to trivialize, dilute, and even twist (with a definite anti-American bent) U.S. history. For instance, they have reduced the five years of WW2 to three incidents - the holocaust, the internment of the Japanese in the U.S., and the use of nuclear weapons against Japan. They will not be teaching the events that led up to U.S. involvment in the war (and yes, that includes the vicious sneak attack on our fleet in Pearl Harbor), nor the involvment of American volunteers helping in the defense of Great Britain during the Blitzkrieg, nor even our attempts to stay out of the war. Further, they are removing pictures of our founding fathers from state and local government buildings, and won't be teaching the kids about the pilgrims because of the religious bearing of the subject. I find it utterly unbelievable that some people think that early eductation is not supposed to do more that provide bullet points of history with no basis for the facts. This country is doomed. "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
Guys this all startes in the 60's . The radicals, the liberials, the closet socialists all stayed in the school system rather than go out into the real world to make a living. They are now the deans,provosts, principals, college professors, and in some cases teachers. Looks like they have found a way to subvert natural selection after all. Want to get it back ? Stop voting on narrow issues and start looking at the big picture. Richard If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man. - Pudd'nhead Wilson's Calendar
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Just a quick response, since I know a few families that homeschool. 1. Parents have a lot of resources available for covering whatever needs to be taught -- including close friends, tutors, etc. 2 - 4. All of these can be directly handled by the parent finding extra-curricular activities. Home-schooled doesn't mean that they stay locked up in the house all day. In fact, many of the home schooled kids I know do better in social situations that most public shooled kids. I don't have kids yet (not by choice), but I'm sure we would use home schooling during part of their school age years. (Different children may do better in different situations, so we could end up with a mix of public, private, and home schooling all at the same time if we had enough children.) John
John - I think you underestimate the social aspect of school. My wife is a 3rd grade teacher and even she claims that the social part is sometimes more important than the educational part. This is especially true for young evolving kids. This is not to say that the level of education should be ignored. For my part, I think that it important to supplement school, but not replace it. For instance, my parents taught me to read and write before first grade. And mathematical games after school can help make up for the low level of the scholastic curriculum. Etc.. Just my 2c -Oz --- Grab WndTabs from http://www.wndtabs.com to make your VC++ experience that much more comfortable...
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I heard on the radio today that New Jersey schools are taking steps to trivialize, dilute, and even twist (with a definite anti-American bent) U.S. history. For instance, they have reduced the five years of WW2 to three incidents - the holocaust, the internment of the Japanese in the U.S., and the use of nuclear weapons against Japan. They will not be teaching the events that led up to U.S. involvment in the war (and yes, that includes the vicious sneak attack on our fleet in Pearl Harbor), nor the involvment of American volunteers helping in the defense of Great Britain during the Blitzkrieg, nor even our attempts to stay out of the war. Further, they are removing pictures of our founding fathers from state and local government buildings, and won't be teaching the kids about the pilgrims because of the religious bearing of the subject. I find it utterly unbelievable that some people think that early eductation is not supposed to do more that provide bullet points of history with no basis for the facts. This country is doomed. "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote: I heard on the radio today that New Jersey schools are taking steps to trivialize, dilute, and even twist (with a definite anti-American bent) U.S. history. Wow, sounds like our 3rd world education system. In SA they are pulling the european view of history in SA and replacing it with the African tribal view. Of course they do not take into account that until very recently these African tribes had no written language. We will basically be relying on campfire tales and rock paintings for our history now. Then there is the fact that ALL of Shakespeare's work will be removed. He has been deemed a racist and we can't have that, now can we. Additionally an author named Nadeem Gordemeir is also being removed, due to her contenious views. What a lot of the black education government fail to realise is that during apartheid she was one of the most prominent anti-apartheid figures. All her work focuses on apartheid and how terrible it is. Explain that one! Add to that the smallest class being 40 kids to one teacher, teachers who make up 65% of the people responsible for child rape, no books, classes held under the baobab tree and of course an exam system which is more corrupted than a Linux trawl... Well, you guys have it good :) regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Martin Marvinski wrote: Unfortunatly Deep Throat isn't my cup of tea Do you Sonork? I do! 100.9903 Stormfront
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Tim Lesher wrote: Actually, we're considering homeschooling for exactly the same reason. I have a hard time imagining that we can't teach a sane superset of what the public education system requires... FWIW - Some concerns I've had about the whole homeschooling process: 1. It's hard to imagine that two parents can match the breadth of subjects taught in a formal school. (ie. The kids may be math whizzes because daddy is a programmer, but may not know how to conjugate a verb or write an organized paragraph). 2. The kids miss the social interaction they would normally see in a school. 3. Lack of direct exposure to different cultures and races. 4. Lack of extra-ciricular activities (music, sports, etc..)
Mike Mullikin - Sonork 100.10096 "Programming is like sex. One mistake and you have to support it for the rest of your life." - Michael Sinz
1. It's hard to imagine that two parents can match the breadth of subjects taught in a formal school. (ie. The kids may be math whizzes because daddy is a programmer, but may not know how to conjugate a verb or write an organized paragraph). There's always tutors to take up the slack for subjects in which the parents may consider themselves to be weak. 2. The kids miss the social interaction they would normally see in a school. If by social interaction, you mean apathy, violence, drugs, and sex, is this an entirely negative consideration? 3. Lack of direct exposure to different cultures and races. You mean like in California where they have muslim sensitivity classes where the kids are taught part of the quran, and are required to take on a muslim name (while in the class)? the same state that required the removal of christian prayer from the classroom, or the benediction prior to graduation ceremonies? Seems like they're being force-fed cultural differences and at the tip of the sword of double-standards. 4. Lack of extra-ciricular activities (music, sports, etc..) Why are you making such broad assumptions? Are you suggesting that the school system knows better about how to educate our children than do the parents? It's pretty obvious to me that the schools are any better equuipped to handle this task than anyone else I've met. "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
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Simon Walton wrote: What irritates me also is people who simply don't understand the different between "Britain" and "England". I've lost count of the number of times i've told people where i'm from (which is Wales), yet they continue to refer to my country as England. A few years ago I had to clean-up my company's client database and found the following countries listed: England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland, Britain, Great Britain, and United Kingdom I asked our sales reps, "Why so many variations?" Their response, "That's the way their company letterhead's read." I started digging out historical correspondence and sure enough, some companies in the same cities had completely different "countries" printed on their company letterhead. One company in particular had sent us letters from their manufacturing office and their headquarters located on opposite sides of the same city. One said England and the other said United Kingdom. :confused: I figure if the brits can't figure out where the hell they live, why should we try? ;P
Mike Mullikin - Sonork 100.10096 "Programming is like sex. One mistake and you have to support it for the rest of your life." - Michael Sinz
I say I live in Britain if I am talking to a European, the United Kingdom if i'm talking to a non-European, and England if i'm talking to a Brit. It keeps the confusion down. For me (living in England), all of the above are correct. It's like saying you live the United States (of America), North/Central/South America, or your specific state. You shoose the one that is most appropriate for the person you are talking with. Therefore, your comment of "I figure if the brits can't figure out where the hell they live, why should we try?" works the other way round too. I don't see it as a problem though as long as people from Scotland don't start calling themselves English (remember, if you come to York we can still shoot you with a bow and arrow under our laws!) ;) ________________ David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk "Love your neighbor, but don't get caught" — Murphy's Laws of Sex
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote: I heard on the radio today that New Jersey schools are taking steps to trivialize, dilute, and even twist (with a definite anti-American bent) U.S. history. Wow, sounds like our 3rd world education system. In SA they are pulling the european view of history in SA and replacing it with the African tribal view. Of course they do not take into account that until very recently these African tribes had no written language. We will basically be relying on campfire tales and rock paintings for our history now. Then there is the fact that ALL of Shakespeare's work will be removed. He has been deemed a racist and we can't have that, now can we. Additionally an author named Nadeem Gordemeir is also being removed, due to her contenious views. What a lot of the black education government fail to realise is that during apartheid she was one of the most prominent anti-apartheid figures. All her work focuses on apartheid and how terrible it is. Explain that one! Add to that the smallest class being 40 kids to one teacher, teachers who make up 65% of the people responsible for child rape, no books, classes held under the baobab tree and of course an exam system which is more corrupted than a Linux trawl... Well, you guys have it good :) regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Martin Marvinski wrote: Unfortunatly Deep Throat isn't my cup of tea Do you Sonork? I do! 100.9903 Stormfront
Yah, but in SA you guys are allowed to have "self-defense" flame-throwers on the side of your cars. No shit, I saw it on TLC. Apparently the car-jacking + murder rate is huge, so they demonstrated this spiffy gadget. If the driver feels threatened, he kicks a little button beside the gas pedal and fwwooooosh out comes a massive ball of flame from the side of the car. It's totally legal, apparently - mind you if your assailant dies, you can be charged with manslaughter. The US doesn't have it THAT good. They have to carry handguns and baseball bats and crowbars to defend themselves when they drive. J
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Yah, but in SA you guys are allowed to have "self-defense" flame-throwers on the side of your cars. No shit, I saw it on TLC. Apparently the car-jacking + murder rate is huge, so they demonstrated this spiffy gadget. If the driver feels threatened, he kicks a little button beside the gas pedal and fwwooooosh out comes a massive ball of flame from the side of the car. It's totally legal, apparently - mind you if your assailant dies, you can be charged with manslaughter. The US doesn't have it THAT good. They have to carry handguns and baseball bats and crowbars to defend themselves when they drive. J
Jamie Hale wrote: It's totally legal, apparently Unfortunatley, and I really wish you were right, you are wrong. The police issued a warning to "all hopefules" that any theft/crime deterant device is not allowed to by design injure or kill a criminal. They did that about three days after the show showing the flame thrower. Apparently they got thousands of calls asking if it was legal. You see, in SA, criminals are treated with more respect by the law than non-criminals. A gun or stun-gun apparently are not "theft/crime deterant" devices but rather "assault devices." They are legal. Go figure. Jamie Hale wrote: mind you if your assailant dies, you can be charged with manslaughter If you so much as scrape them, you get locked up. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Martin Marvinski wrote: Unfortunatly Deep Throat isn't my cup of tea Do you Sonork? I do! 100.9903 Stormfront
