Skip to content
  • Categories
  • Recent
  • Tags
  • Popular
  • World
  • Users
  • Groups
Skins
  • Light
  • Cerulean
  • Cosmo
  • Flatly
  • Journal
  • Litera
  • Lumen
  • Lux
  • Materia
  • Minty
  • Morph
  • Pulse
  • Sandstone
  • Simplex
  • Sketchy
  • Spacelab
  • United
  • Yeti
  • Zephyr
  • Dark
  • Cyborg
  • Darkly
  • Quartz
  • Slate
  • Solar
  • Superhero
  • Vapor

  • Default (No Skin)
  • No Skin
Collapse
Code Project
  1. Home
  2. The Lounge
  3. Paradox

Paradox

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved The Lounge
databasequestion
28 Posts 11 Posters 0 Views 1 Watching
  • Oldest to Newest
  • Newest to Oldest
  • Most Votes
Reply
  • Reply as topic
Log in to reply
This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
  • R Red Stateler

    I don't think it's even philosophical because it's a self-enforced restraint. You're defining the table as listing all self-referencing tables. You could just as easily define it as a table that lists all self-referencing tables besides itself. It's just like saying, "I am sitting and yet I'm not!" and claiming it's some sort of profound paradox. It's not...It's just dumb.

    A Offline
    A Offline
    Andy Brummer
    wrote on last edited by
    #19

    I guess you consider this just dumb. :doh: Some consider it the most important mathematical theorem of the twentieth century. Godel's theorem[^]


    I can imagine the sinking feeling one would have after ordering my book, only to find a laughably ridiculous theory with demented logic once the book arrives - Mark McCutcheon

    1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • R Red Stateler

      I don't think it's even philosophical because it's a self-enforced restraint. You're defining the table as listing all self-referencing tables. You could just as easily define it as a table that lists all self-referencing tables besides itself. It's just like saying, "I am sitting and yet I'm not!" and claiming it's some sort of profound paradox. It's not...It's just dumb.

      D Offline
      D Offline
      David Stone
      wrote on last edited by
      #20

      Just because you're ignorant with respect to how something like Russell's paradox is applicable to what you do each and every day does not make it dumb. And calling it that only reinforces your ignorance in the face of others.

      Once you wanted revolution
      Now you're the institution
      How's it feel to be the man?

      1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • D David Stone

        Marc Clifton wrote:

        IMO, Russell's paradox falls into the category of philosophical issues, something you see high school students entertaining themselves with, before they get girlfriends and a real life.

        High school students? No. University students? Yes. We've been dealing with this in my theory of computability class. It's not even really a philosophical thing. It has direct application to what can and cannot be computed.

        Once you wanted revolution
        Now you're the institution
        How's it feel to be the man?

        M Offline
        M Offline
        Marc Clifton
        wrote on last edited by
        #21

        David Stone wrote:

        We've been dealing with this in my theory of computability class. It's not even really a philosophical thing. It has direct application to what can and cannot be computed.

        I had an inclining that that might be so, but I'm curious, what's a real world example? Marc Pensieve Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson

        D 2 Replies Last reply
        0
        • M Marc Clifton

          David Stone wrote:

          We've been dealing with this in my theory of computability class. It's not even really a philosophical thing. It has direct application to what can and cannot be computed.

          I had an inclining that that might be so, but I'm curious, what's a real world example? Marc Pensieve Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson

          D Offline
          D Offline
          David Stone
          wrote on last edited by
          #22

          Russell's paradox was used by Turing to prove that the Halting problem was undecidable. That's the most well known application. Essentially, Turing proved that wecan't develop a general purpose algorithm to prove that a machine will not go into an infinite loop. Here's some more about the Halting Problem[^]. The other major application, that Andy already mentioned earlier, being Gödel's incompleteness theorems[^].

          Once you wanted revolution
          Now you're the institution
          How's it feel to be the man?

          1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • M Marc Clifton

            David Stone wrote:

            We've been dealing with this in my theory of computability class. It's not even really a philosophical thing. It has direct application to what can and cannot be computed.

            I had an inclining that that might be so, but I'm curious, what's a real world example? Marc Pensieve Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson

            D Offline
            D Offline
            David Stone
            wrote on last edited by
            #23

            Here. I found a really good explanation of it. (I'm not even sure how I found this now. I've been following links around the web for the better part of an hour now.) This PDF[^], which, I believe is an except from this book[^], written by this prof. at Berkeley[^]. The Part about Turing is down on page 3, but if you've never read about Godel, then you might want to start at the beginning. I especially love this quote:

            And when we saw the computer, when we saw its code - and Turing saw it first - we were looking at complexity incarnate. And then suddenly we saw complexity everywhere. It materialized, it crystalized around us - even though it had always been there. We have yet to recover from the shock.

            Once you wanted revolution
            Now you're the institution
            How's it feel to be the man?

            M 1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • E Eric Dahlvang

              Should the database table that keeps track of all tables that are not self-referencing contain a reference to itself? If it does, then it should not. If it does not, then it should. Adapted from Bertrand Russell's paradox: here[^]

              C Offline
              C Offline
              Chris Maunder
              wrote on last edited by
              #24

              That's why mathematicians invented Class Theory. Do a course in Class Theory and if you survive with your brain still inside your head then you've done well. It's the reason mathematicians don't need drugs. cheers, Chris Maunder

              CodeProject.com : C++ MVP

              1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • D David Stone

                Here. I found a really good explanation of it. (I'm not even sure how I found this now. I've been following links around the web for the better part of an hour now.) This PDF[^], which, I believe is an except from this book[^], written by this prof. at Berkeley[^]. The Part about Turing is down on page 3, but if you've never read about Godel, then you might want to start at the beginning. I especially love this quote:

                And when we saw the computer, when we saw its code - and Turing saw it first - we were looking at complexity incarnate. And then suddenly we saw complexity everywhere. It materialized, it crystalized around us - even though it had always been there. We have yet to recover from the shock.

                Once you wanted revolution
                Now you're the institution
                How's it feel to be the man?

                M Offline
                M Offline
                Marc Clifton
                wrote on last edited by
                #25

                David Stone wrote:

                I've been following links around the web for the better part of an hour now.)

                Yikes! Thanks! I'm reading... (great quote too). Marc Pensieve Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson

                D 1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • M Marc Clifton

                  David Stone wrote:

                  I've been following links around the web for the better part of an hour now.)

                  Yikes! Thanks! I'm reading... (great quote too). Marc Pensieve Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson

                  D Offline
                  D Offline
                  David Stone
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #26

                  Marc Clifton wrote:

                  Yikes!

                  Heh. I actually tend to do that pretty often. I'll start in one place and just keep clicking around on stuff that looks interesting. Computability is actually really interesting. Turing Machines, Finite State Automata, P vs NP completeness. Fun stuff.

                  And when we saw the computer, when we saw its code - and Turing saw it first - we were looking at complexity incarnate. And then suddenly we saw complexity everywhere. It materialized, it crystalized around us - even though it had always been there.
                  We have yet to recover from the shock.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • C code frog 0

                    Marc Clifton wrote:

                    I'm working on that article, it's just going sloooow.

                    It must be catching. I'm having the same problem. I launched an internal website a few days ago and the clients keep wanting me to change certain things. * We want all users to be able to access X. ... * Oops no we don't. We only want these users to access X. ... * Well, now all the users who cannot access X want to know if they can get a Y to access. ... Loopus Infinitus :sigh:


                    If we all used the Plain English compiler every post in the lounge would be a programming question.:cool:
                    Welcome to CP in your language. Post the unicode version in My CP Blog [ ^ ] now.

                    People who don't understand how awesome Firefox is have never used CPhog. The act of using CPhog alone doesn't make Firefox cool. It opens your eyes to the possibilities and then you start looking for other things like CPhog and your eyes are suddenly open to all sorts of useful things all through Firefox. - (Self Quote)

                    P Offline
                    P Offline
                    Polymorpher
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #27

                    LOL you must work for us Pablo

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • E Eric Dahlvang

                      Should the database table that keeps track of all tables that are not self-referencing contain a reference to itself? If it does, then it should not. If it does not, then it should. Adapted from Bertrand Russell's paradox: here[^]

                      P Offline
                      P Offline
                      Polymorpher
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #28

                      Looks like this turned into an educational experience in the end...It's pretty interesting...you got my 5 Pablo

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      Reply
                      • Reply as topic
                      Log in to reply
                      • Oldest to Newest
                      • Newest to Oldest
                      • Most Votes


                      • Login

                      • Don't have an account? Register

                      • Login or register to search.
                      • First post
                        Last post
                      0
                      • Categories
                      • Recent
                      • Tags
                      • Popular
                      • World
                      • Users
                      • Groups