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  3. French iPod law panned

French iPod law panned

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  • R Offline
    R Offline
    Ryan Binns
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    Somebody really needs to stop governments from making laws... http://australianit.news.com.au/articles/0,7204,19664974%5E15306%5E%5Enbv%5E,00.html[^]

    Ryan

    "Punctuality is only a virtue for those who aren't smart enough to think of good excuses for being late" John Nichol "Point Of Impact"

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    • R Ryan Binns

      Somebody really needs to stop governments from making laws... http://australianit.news.com.au/articles/0,7204,19664974%5E15306%5E%5Enbv%5E,00.html[^]

      Ryan

      "Punctuality is only a virtue for those who aren't smart enough to think of good excuses for being late" John Nichol "Point Of Impact"

      C Offline
      C Offline
      Colin Angus Mackay
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      From the article: "Government-led theft of intellectual property is wrong, whether we're talking about iTunes or Champagne." I don't think that comparison is valid. Champagne is either made in Champagne (in which case it is Champagne) or it isn't (in which case it is simply sparkling wine).


      Scottish Developers events: * .NET debugging, tracing and instrumentation by Duncan Edwards Jones and Code Coverage in .NET by Craig Murphy * Developer Day Scotland: are you interested in speaking or attending? My: Website | Blog

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      • R Ryan Binns

        Somebody really needs to stop governments from making laws... http://australianit.news.com.au/articles/0,7204,19664974%5E15306%5E%5Enbv%5E,00.html[^]

        Ryan

        "Punctuality is only a virtue for those who aren't smart enough to think of good excuses for being late" John Nichol "Point Of Impact"

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        S Offline
        Steve Mayfield
        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        thats the same thing the EU is forcing MS to do for the server and media player markets...and this is only just the beginning. The thing that worries me the most is that it will take away any motivation companies might have to introduce products that could become dominate within their category knowing that governments will probably require them to provide information on their product(s) to competitors so they can create companion or competing products...this in effect means that the major players would be required to subsidize other companies product development... :not cool: Steve

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        • S Steve Mayfield

          thats the same thing the EU is forcing MS to do for the server and media player markets...and this is only just the beginning. The thing that worries me the most is that it will take away any motivation companies might have to introduce products that could become dominate within their category knowing that governments will probably require them to provide information on their product(s) to competitors so they can create companion or competing products...this in effect means that the major players would be required to subsidize other companies product development... :not cool: Steve

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          J Offline
          Joey Bloggs
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          Yeh it's a real pity that governments around the world forced standards on the electricity suppliers and the railways. It would be much better to have multiple competing voltages and guages everywhere :doh: DRM is NEVER the answer, just like prohibition is never the answer X|

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          • R Ryan Binns

            Somebody really needs to stop governments from making laws... http://australianit.news.com.au/articles/0,7204,19664974%5E15306%5E%5Enbv%5E,00.html[^]

            Ryan

            "Punctuality is only a virtue for those who aren't smart enough to think of good excuses for being late" John Nichol "Point Of Impact"

            S Offline
            S Offline
            Stephane Rodriguez
            wrote on last edited by
            #5

            This Vivendi-Apple-Microsoft-backed law makes interoperability impractical, despite it being named in the law. But the consequences are very real for everyone of us. The bulk of the law is about the content industry and technical providers being allowed to keep control of distribution and arbitrary prices. It's a total denial of the Internet, fair use, and authors' rights. Screw customers, way to go... In a "always on" world, which is the basis for DRM to be possible, I think that "offline" prevails. I'll be sticking to very real pieces of plastic, and teaching anyone to do so, instead of services that remotely expire content at will, or decide for me what I can do with it. It's up to everyone to vote with their money. Also, the article is wrong when it says " The new law was drafted initially to conform with EU directives on copyright protection of online works." : those EU directives come from the early 90s, when Internet barely existed. They are irrelevant in today's world.

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            • J Joey Bloggs

              Yeh it's a real pity that governments around the world forced standards on the electricity suppliers and the railways. It would be much better to have multiple competing voltages and guages everywhere :doh: DRM is NEVER the answer, just like prohibition is never the answer X|

              C Offline
              C Offline
              Craster
              wrote on last edited by
              #6

              Joey Bloggs wrote:

              DRM is NEVER the answer, just like prohibition is never the answer

              What amuses me is the attitude towards DRM in this place. Pretty much all the people here are programmers, and there are regular discussions on the technical boards about methods of securing code that people have written so that people can't download and use applications for free or steal source code. These discussions always have positive responses, and many methods are suggested. The minute someone starts talking about using technology to ensure that it is songs that can no longer be downloaded free, or Microsoft using WGA to ensure that their software is not stolen, suddenly it's a whole new ball game and Microsoft/EMI or whoever are the spawn of satan for putting these restrictions in place. Sure, it's the difference between the little guy and the big corporate mega-organisation, but the principle is surely exactly the same?

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              • C Craster

                Joey Bloggs wrote:

                DRM is NEVER the answer, just like prohibition is never the answer

                What amuses me is the attitude towards DRM in this place. Pretty much all the people here are programmers, and there are regular discussions on the technical boards about methods of securing code that people have written so that people can't download and use applications for free or steal source code. These discussions always have positive responses, and many methods are suggested. The minute someone starts talking about using technology to ensure that it is songs that can no longer be downloaded free, or Microsoft using WGA to ensure that their software is not stolen, suddenly it's a whole new ball game and Microsoft/EMI or whoever are the spawn of satan for putting these restrictions in place. Sure, it's the difference between the little guy and the big corporate mega-organisation, but the principle is surely exactly the same?

                D Offline
                D Offline
                Duncan Edwards Jones
                wrote on last edited by
                #7

                Absolutely - and the lack of copyright protection has stifled investment in smaller scale IT operations. DRM is not inherently evil, but it must be device and operating system independent otherwise it is just another tool to restrict competition. '--8<------------------------ Ex Datis: Duncan Jones Merrion Computing Ltd

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                • S Stephane Rodriguez

                  This Vivendi-Apple-Microsoft-backed law makes interoperability impractical, despite it being named in the law. But the consequences are very real for everyone of us. The bulk of the law is about the content industry and technical providers being allowed to keep control of distribution and arbitrary prices. It's a total denial of the Internet, fair use, and authors' rights. Screw customers, way to go... In a "always on" world, which is the basis for DRM to be possible, I think that "offline" prevails. I'll be sticking to very real pieces of plastic, and teaching anyone to do so, instead of services that remotely expire content at will, or decide for me what I can do with it. It's up to everyone to vote with their money. Also, the article is wrong when it says " The new law was drafted initially to conform with EU directives on copyright protection of online works." : those EU directives come from the early 90s, when Internet barely existed. They are irrelevant in today's world.

                  D Offline
                  D Offline
                  Dario Solera
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #8

                  Stephane Rodriguez. wrote:

                  those EU directives come from the early 90s

                  No, they don't. They are the EUCD, European Union Copyright Directive, 2001. Anyway, I think you're right. _____________________________________________ Tozzi is right: Gaia is getting rid of us. My Blog [ITA] - Developing ScrewTurn Wiki 1.0b...

                  1 Reply Last reply
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                  • J Joey Bloggs

                    Yeh it's a real pity that governments around the world forced standards on the electricity suppliers and the railways. It would be much better to have multiple competing voltages and guages everywhere :doh: DRM is NEVER the answer, just like prohibition is never the answer X|

                    R Offline
                    R Offline
                    Rob Graham
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #9

                    Joey Bloggs wrote:

                    and guages

                    They did a pretty lousy job of that as well. 120 -60, 220-50, different railroad guauges Us/euroupe/asia. This law has nothing to do with standardization, or consumer protection, it is about giving French companies special privileges so they can compete more effectivelly at Apples expense.

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                    • C Craster

                      Joey Bloggs wrote:

                      DRM is NEVER the answer, just like prohibition is never the answer

                      What amuses me is the attitude towards DRM in this place. Pretty much all the people here are programmers, and there are regular discussions on the technical boards about methods of securing code that people have written so that people can't download and use applications for free or steal source code. These discussions always have positive responses, and many methods are suggested. The minute someone starts talking about using technology to ensure that it is songs that can no longer be downloaded free, or Microsoft using WGA to ensure that their software is not stolen, suddenly it's a whole new ball game and Microsoft/EMI or whoever are the spawn of satan for putting these restrictions in place. Sure, it's the difference between the little guy and the big corporate mega-organisation, but the principle is surely exactly the same?

                      L Offline
                      L Offline
                      Lost User
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #10

                      Sadly the genie is out the bottle of copying plus the responses are often poorly thought out - prosecuting people without a PC for file sharing, rootkits etc. At least the OS issue isn't so bad. One other thing - people complain about complications arising from Windows updates yet just abotu all the updates are due to people attackign Windows. Elaine :rose: The tigress is here :-D

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                      • C Colin Angus Mackay

                        From the article: "Government-led theft of intellectual property is wrong, whether we're talking about iTunes or Champagne." I don't think that comparison is valid. Champagne is either made in Champagne (in which case it is Champagne) or it isn't (in which case it is simply sparkling wine).


                        Scottish Developers events: * .NET debugging, tracing and instrumentation by Duncan Edwards Jones and Code Coverage in .NET by Craig Murphy * Developer Day Scotland: are you interested in speaking or attending? My: Website | Blog

                        L Offline
                        L Offline
                        Lost User
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #11

                        Colin Angus Mackay wrote:

                        Champagne is either made in Champagne (in which case it is Champagne) or it isn't (in which case it is simply sparkling wine).

                        Meh. Only because the French demand that it be so...[^] Seems like they are protecting French products and the hell with anybody elses. I hope Apple pulls iTunes out of France and any other country that acts so arrogantly. The same with Microsoft and the EU. "The trouble with jogging is that the ice falls out of your glass." - Martin Mull

                        C 1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • C Craster

                          Joey Bloggs wrote:

                          DRM is NEVER the answer, just like prohibition is never the answer

                          What amuses me is the attitude towards DRM in this place. Pretty much all the people here are programmers, and there are regular discussions on the technical boards about methods of securing code that people have written so that people can't download and use applications for free or steal source code. These discussions always have positive responses, and many methods are suggested. The minute someone starts talking about using technology to ensure that it is songs that can no longer be downloaded free, or Microsoft using WGA to ensure that their software is not stolen, suddenly it's a whole new ball game and Microsoft/EMI or whoever are the spawn of satan for putting these restrictions in place. Sure, it's the difference between the little guy and the big corporate mega-organisation, but the principle is surely exactly the same?

                          S Offline
                          S Offline
                          Stephane Rodriguez
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #12

                          It's a matter of choice. In a business that respects customers, customers are given the choice to buy the product once for all, and should be able to do whatever pleases them as long as they comply with the EULA. And, if the customer would rather choose DRM because the associated price is an order of magnitude less, then be it. But at the heart of the business is CHOICE. Microsoft-powered DRM (WGA is just one example, WMP 11 is another) is not about choice. It's about strangling customers in the name of fighting piracy, which is a ridiculous thought since pirates will route around the DRM.

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                          • S Stephane Rodriguez

                            It's a matter of choice. In a business that respects customers, customers are given the choice to buy the product once for all, and should be able to do whatever pleases them as long as they comply with the EULA. And, if the customer would rather choose DRM because the associated price is an order of magnitude less, then be it. But at the heart of the business is CHOICE. Microsoft-powered DRM (WGA is just one example, WMP 11 is another) is not about choice. It's about strangling customers in the name of fighting piracy, which is a ridiculous thought since pirates will route around the DRM.

                            C Offline
                            C Offline
                            Craster
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #13

                            Stephane Rodriguez. wrote:

                            In a business that respects customers, customers are given the choice to buy the product once for all, and should be able to do whatever pleases them as long as they comply with the EULA.

                            So the correct option is to give up all technological attempts to enforce copy protection, and instead trust people to use the product in line with the EULA? I'm sorry, but people have proved over and over again that they will happily break the law for a free application or music track. In an ideal world, your approach would be fine, but in this world there are too many freeloaders.

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                            • L Lost User

                              Colin Angus Mackay wrote:

                              Champagne is either made in Champagne (in which case it is Champagne) or it isn't (in which case it is simply sparkling wine).

                              Meh. Only because the French demand that it be so...[^] Seems like they are protecting French products and the hell with anybody elses. I hope Apple pulls iTunes out of France and any other country that acts so arrogantly. The same with Microsoft and the EU. "The trouble with jogging is that the ice falls out of your glass." - Martin Mull

                              C Offline
                              C Offline
                              Craster
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #14

                              Like with the Cornish Pasty? Cornwall have demanded that that can only be applied to pasties made in Cornwall.

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                              • C Craster

                                Like with the Cornish Pasty? Cornwall have demanded that that can only be applied to pasties made in Cornwall.

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                                L Offline
                                Lost User
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #15

                                Exactly BTW - You can keep the pastries, but Cornish Hens[^] rock. :) "The trouble with jogging is that the ice falls out of your glass." - Martin Mull

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                                • R Rob Graham

                                  Joey Bloggs wrote:

                                  and guages

                                  They did a pretty lousy job of that as well. 120 -60, 220-50, different railroad guauges Us/euroupe/asia. This law has nothing to do with standardization, or consumer protection, it is about giving French companies special privileges so they can compete more effectivelly at Apples expense.

                                  S Offline
                                  S Offline
                                  Stephane Rodriguez
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #16

                                  French companies, like? There is none.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • R Ryan Binns

                                    Somebody really needs to stop governments from making laws... http://australianit.news.com.au/articles/0,7204,19664974%5E15306%5E%5Enbv%5E,00.html[^]

                                    Ryan

                                    "Punctuality is only a virtue for those who aren't smart enough to think of good excuses for being late" John Nichol "Point Of Impact"

                                    K Offline
                                    K Offline
                                    Kevin McFarlane
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #17

                                    The moral of the story is: "don't produce a product that's too successful, otherwise the government will force you to share it with your competitors." Kevin

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