How to...ask a question
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Christopher Duncan wrote:
Surely you don't expect everyone on the planet to speak flawless English just because it happens to be your default language
Yes! Dammit! :-D See my reply above. Its not the fact that it is grammatically incorrect. Hell, most of the people I know (me, included), can't speak or write the Queen's english consistently, day in day out. Its just the huge number of people that have been using this phrase in the forums .... all the time. Even though, litterally, it does not make any sense!
I Dream of Absolute Zero
English has no central authority to define was is and isn't valid, consequently valid english is whatever teh typical english speaker actually uses. No amount of wailing and gnashing of teeth by the graybeards will force common enlish back to what thier 1940's era style manuals say it should be. Over longer periods of time this is why Shakespeare is difficult to read and Chaucer is practically writing in a foriegn langauge.
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Christopher Duncan wrote:
Surely you don't expect everyone on the planet to speak flawless English just because it happens to be your default language
Yes! Dammit! :-D See my reply above. Its not the fact that it is grammatically incorrect. Hell, most of the people I know (me, included), can't speak or write the Queen's english consistently, day in day out. Its just the huge number of people that have been using this phrase in the forums .... all the time. Even though, litterally, it does not make any sense!
I Dream of Absolute Zero
RChin wrote:
can't speak or write the Queen's english consistently, day in day out
Don't worry, neither can the Queen. There was a study done on the way the Queen talks and her accent has changed over the last 50 years. She was in a class of her own, she now speaks an accent called SSB (Standard Southern British) - apparently.
Upcoming Scottish Developers events: * UK Security Evangelists On Tour (2nd November, Edinburgh) * Developer Day Scotland: are you interested in speaking or attending? My: Website | Blog
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English has no central authority to define was is and isn't valid, consequently valid english is whatever teh typical english speaker actually uses. No amount of wailing and gnashing of teeth by the graybeards will force common enlish back to what thier 1940's era style manuals say it should be. Over longer periods of time this is why Shakespeare is difficult to read and Chaucer is practically writing in a foriegn langauge.
There was a really interesting debate on this recently on LBC (a local talk radio station). And although I agree that languages on a whole changes and evolve over time, I also find it a bit riddiculous and counter-productive if any language changes so quickly that even the current population can't keep up. Still, I would hardly list the How to.. phrase as progressive. More like pure linguistic anarchy!:-D
I Dream of Absolute Zero
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RChin wrote:
Its just that I am surprised by the wide use of it as an accepted way of asking for something.
It is often a mistranslation of various languages into English. When learning Spanish one has to learn to let go of the possesive most of the time. For example, the film "Abre los ojos" literally translates as "Open the eyes", but is generally translated as "Open your eyes". But if the film title was "Abre tus ojos" then that is equivalent of stressing (adding extreme importance to) the owner of the eyes, like saying in English "Open YOUR eyes" It is similar with the subject of a sentence. Because of the costruction of the verb it is usually built into way the verb needs to be conjugated. For example "Abro la ventana" is translated as "I open the window", but if I said "Yo abro la ventana" it would mean "*I* open the window" - stressing the fact it was me and no one else. I would therefore suggest that in many languages that what is being asked is "How does one, in general, do X" because to say "How would I do X?" or "How do you do X?" would mean specifically me, or specifically you, and no one else - and that may be considered rude in some cultures.
Upcoming Scottish Developers events: * UK Security Evangelists On Tour (2nd November, Edinburgh) * Developer Day Scotland: are you interested in speaking or attending? My: Website | Blog
I would therefore suggest that in many languages that what is being asked is "How does one, in general, do X" because to say "How would I do X?" or "How do you do X?" would mean specifically me, or specifically you, and no one else - and that may be considered rude in some cultures. And would, of course, invite lots of smart-ass replies, especially in programming forums. eg. "Why are you asking us how *you* do X? Why don't you tell us?"
Matt Gerrans
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RChin wrote:
Its just that I am surprised by the wide use of it as an accepted way of asking for something.
It is often a mistranslation of various languages into English. When learning Spanish one has to learn to let go of the possesive most of the time. For example, the film "Abre los ojos" literally translates as "Open the eyes", but is generally translated as "Open your eyes". But if the film title was "Abre tus ojos" then that is equivalent of stressing (adding extreme importance to) the owner of the eyes, like saying in English "Open YOUR eyes" It is similar with the subject of a sentence. Because of the costruction of the verb it is usually built into way the verb needs to be conjugated. For example "Abro la ventana" is translated as "I open the window", but if I said "Yo abro la ventana" it would mean "*I* open the window" - stressing the fact it was me and no one else. I would therefore suggest that in many languages that what is being asked is "How does one, in general, do X" because to say "How would I do X?" or "How do you do X?" would mean specifically me, or specifically you, and no one else - and that may be considered rude in some cultures.
Upcoming Scottish Developers events: * UK Security Evangelists On Tour (2nd November, Edinburgh) * Developer Day Scotland: are you interested in speaking or attending? My: Website | Blog
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RChin wrote:
can't speak or write the Queen's english consistently, day in day out
Don't worry, neither can the Queen. There was a study done on the way the Queen talks and her accent has changed over the last 50 years. She was in a class of her own, she now speaks an accent called SSB (Standard Southern British) - apparently.
Upcoming Scottish Developers events: * UK Security Evangelists On Tour (2nd November, Edinburgh) * Developer Day Scotland: are you interested in speaking or attending? My: Website | Blog
My husband and I, innit.
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Excellent reply. btw: I own and love both movies, "Abre los ojos" and "Vanilla Sky".
I Dream of Absolute Zero
I prefer the Spanish version - I can't stand Tom Cruise!
Upcoming Scottish Developers events: * UK Security Evangelists On Tour (2nd November, Edinburgh) * Developer Day Scotland: are you interested in speaking or attending? My: Website | Blog
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Alvaro Mendez wrote:
Yep, you're right. But then, how to fix this problem?
Ahhhhhh!!!:mad::mad::mad: But then, how would you fix this problem? But seriously, I don't necessarily think its a problem to be fixed. Its just that I am surprised by the wide use of it as an accepted way of asking for something.
I Dream of Absolute Zero
RChin wrote:
...I am surprised by the wide use of it as an accepted way of asking for something.
If someone uses it and gets results, why would they bother to ask any differently?
"Approved Workmen Are Not Ashamed" - 2 Timothy 2:15
"Judge not by the eye but by the heart." - Native American Proverb
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My husband and I, innit.
Think more Home Counties rather than Essex. Think more along the lines of Penelope Keith in "To the Mannor Born"
Upcoming Scottish Developers events: * UK Security Evangelists On Tour (2nd November, Edinburgh) * Developer Day Scotland: are you interested in speaking or attending? My: Website | Blog
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I prefer the Spanish version - I can't stand Tom Cruise!
Upcoming Scottish Developers events: * UK Security Evangelists On Tour (2nd November, Edinburgh) * Developer Day Scotland: are you interested in speaking or attending? My: Website | Blog
I found that both movies were virtually identical (which does not say very much about Cameron Crowe, but what really makes me like the remake is the soundtrack. From the Chemical Brothers, to Leftfield. And it introduced me to Sigour Ros and their weird, but likable musical style.
I Dream of Absolute Zero
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Alvaro Mendez wrote:
Yep, you're right. But then, how to fix this problem?
Ahhhhhh!!!:mad::mad::mad: But then, how would you fix this problem? But seriously, I don't necessarily think its a problem to be fixed. Its just that I am surprised by the wide use of it as an accepted way of asking for something.
I Dream of Absolute Zero
RChin wrote:
But seriously, I don't necessarily think its a problem to be fixed. Its just that I am surprised by the wide use of it as an accepted way of asking for something.
Yeah, I'm actually guilty of wording my questions that way once or twice before because I figured it would be shorter and more understandable for other developers (who also talk that way). Alvaro
God existing isn't entirely impossible, but there's absolutely no evidence for it, so... the personal God as described by the Christian Bible existing is just as likely as a Pink Unicorn having created the universe, oh.. say... last Thursday. It's equally possible the moon has a core made of cheese. It's equally possible this sentence is in Spanish when you're not looking. - Someone on the Internet
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Christopher Duncan wrote:
Surely you don't expect everyone on the planet to speak flawless English just because it happens to be your default language
Yes! Dammit! :-D See my reply above. Its not the fact that it is grammatically incorrect. Hell, most of the people I know (me, included), can't speak or write the Queen's english consistently, day in day out. Its just the huge number of people that have been using this phrase in the forums .... all the time. Even though, litterally, it does not make any sense!
I Dream of Absolute Zero
Is "dammit" proper English? ;)
Matt Gerrans
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It must be me, but the "How to..." phrase that is commonly used in the programming forum really gets on my tits! For example: How to get a variable from a class? How to create an array?. Surely, this is not a proper sentence, nor does it sound anything remotely correct when I try and repeat it verbally? I would think that any sentence that begins with 'How to' implies an instruction, or at best, a title statement; not a question. Does anyone have any opinion on this?
I Dream of Absolute Zero
RChin wrote:
Does anyone have any opinion on this?
Nah, your just being anal. How to stop caring about it?
This statement is false.
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Christopher Duncan wrote:
Surely you don't expect everyone on the planet to speak flawless English just because it happens to be your default language
Yes! Dammit! :-D See my reply above. Its not the fact that it is grammatically incorrect. Hell, most of the people I know (me, included), can't speak or write the Queen's english consistently, day in day out. Its just the huge number of people that have been using this phrase in the forums .... all the time. Even though, litterally, it does not make any sense!
I Dream of Absolute Zero
You might enjoy this: Timeline of the English Language[^]
"When I get a little money, I buy books and if any is left, I buy food and clothes." --Erasmus
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It must be me, but the "How to..." phrase that is commonly used in the programming forum really gets on my tits! For example: How to get a variable from a class? How to create an array?. Surely, this is not a proper sentence, nor does it sound anything remotely correct when I try and repeat it verbally? I would think that any sentence that begins with 'How to' implies an instruction, or at best, a title statement; not a question. Does anyone have any opinion on this?
I Dream of Absolute Zero
Well, I can't get too upset since not everyone is a native English speaker. Plus, if one person says it, others will pick it up and start using it too. In other languages (such as French), it's perfectly OK to word a question that way. For example, "Comment cuire les oeufs?" - How do I cook eggs? If someone's native language allows that, they're naturally going to use the equivalent construct in English.
--Mike-- Visual C++ MVP :cool: LINKS~! Ericahist | PimpFish | CP SearchBar v3.0 | C++ Forum FAQ
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It must be me, but the "How to..." phrase that is commonly used in the programming forum really gets on my tits! For example: How to get a variable from a class? How to create an array?. Surely, this is not a proper sentence, nor does it sound anything remotely correct when I try and repeat it verbally? I would think that any sentence that begins with 'How to' implies an instruction, or at best, a title statement; not a question. Does anyone have any opinion on this?
I Dream of Absolute Zero
It's indicative of a wider problem in culture, where sentences become questions by raising the tone of the last word. Try this one out. I know how to do it. By raising the inflection at the end, this becomes a rather startled question: I know how to do it?
Still looking for a good sig
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You might enjoy this: Timeline of the English Language[^]
"When I get a little money, I buy books and if any is left, I buy food and clothes." --Erasmus
That's got lots of errors and omissions: Celtic also produced Gallic and Cornish. Why is Scottish English separate from British English? Scotland is in Britain too! And it's totally wrong to say that English was spoken in the 5th Century - Anglo-Saxon, yes.
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It must be me, but the "How to..." phrase that is commonly used in the programming forum really gets on my tits! For example: How to get a variable from a class? How to create an array?. Surely, this is not a proper sentence, nor does it sound anything remotely correct when I try and repeat it verbally? I would think that any sentence that begins with 'How to' implies an instruction, or at best, a title statement; not a question. Does anyone have any opinion on this?
I Dream of Absolute Zero
RChin wrote:
Does anyone have any opinion on this?
well, in my opinion, i don't think there is Any wrong in that.:):) everyone may not be able to speak good english. Languages are there just to communicate with others. we don't need to bother as long as we can understand what exactly the person is asking about...:):)
vijay.
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That's got lots of errors and omissions: Celtic also produced Gallic and Cornish. Why is Scottish English separate from British English? Scotland is in Britain too! And it's totally wrong to say that English was spoken in the 5th Century - Anglo-Saxon, yes.
Steve_Harris wrote:
Why is Scottish English separate from British English?
I think that is correct.
"When I get a little money, I buy books and if any is left, I buy food and clothes." --Erasmus