Noah's Ark
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Michael P Butler wrote: Any recommended reading besides The Bible? Not really - reading things other than the Bible is usually what gets people confused. :) I'd suggest starting with the Gospels, then Acts, in a New King James if possible, otherwise maybe an NIV. Most Bibles are OK, so long as they are translations. A umber of truly ns' exist as well, such as the Good News. The thing to remember is that the OT is full of the Law, requirements that no longer apply to us. The Gospels are also written under the Law, salvation came in Acts 2, because Jesus lived a perfect life under the Law and then died for us. The Gospels record His teachings, and then Acts records the history of the early curch. The letters after that are written to Christians, that is to say, they make statements that only apply to people who have recieved the Holy Spirit with the evidence Jesus promised. That can also be confusing if you read them without realising who they are addressed to. This is where misconceptions come about likepple thinking that everyone is born a child of God. The NT says 'you are all God's children', because the people the letter was written to *where* all born again, children of God. Anyhow, I'm raving. Get a NKJV and read the Gospels and Acts. Ask if you have any questions. If you want to know about Christianity, take the Bibles word for it over any person, me included. Christian The tragedy of cyberspace - that so much can travel so far, and yet mean so little. And you don't spend much time with the opposite sex working day and night, unless the pizza delivery person happens to be young, cute, single and female. I can assure you, I've consumed more than a programmer's allotment of pizza, and these conditions have never aligned. - Christopher Duncan - 18/04/2002
Christian Graus wrote: If you want to know about Christianity, take the Bibles word for it over any person, me included. but surely The Bible was written by people, a biography of people who were there at the time and contains their own personal views and beliefs. Its been a couple of years since I last read it, perhaps its time to see if I can learn something different from what I learnt last time. Michael :-) Communication is the first step towards enlightenment.
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Christian Graus wrote: If you want to know about Christianity, take the Bibles word for it over any person, me included. but surely The Bible was written by people, a biography of people who were there at the time and contains their own personal views and beliefs. Its been a couple of years since I last read it, perhaps its time to see if I can learn something different from what I learnt last time. Michael :-) Communication is the first step towards enlightenment.
Michael P Butler wrote: but surely The Bible was written by people, a biography of people who were there at the time and contains their own personal views and beliefs. No, the Bible is inspired by God. Much of it ( like Genesis for exmaple ) was written way after the events. The Gospels are obviously eye witness accounts, and the Psalms obviously tell us as much about David the man as Ecclesiates tells us about Solomons state of mind, but the content is still inspired by God, as instruction to us. Michael P Butler wrote: Its been a couple of years since I last read it, perhaps its time to see if I can learn something different from what I learnt last time. To be truthful, the Bible says that to really understand it, one needs the Holy Spirit and it's certainly my experience that much I did not understand before I immediately comprehended upon becoming a Christian. However, much of it is also pretty clear, especially the Gospels and Acts. Christian The tragedy of cyberspace - that so much can travel so far, and yet mean so little. And you don't spend much time with the opposite sex working day and night, unless the pizza delivery person happens to be young, cute, single and female. I can assure you, I've consumed more than a programmer's allotment of pizza, and these conditions have never aligned. - Christopher Duncan - 18/04/2002
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Michael P Butler wrote: but surely The Bible was written by people, a biography of people who were there at the time and contains their own personal views and beliefs. No, the Bible is inspired by God. Much of it ( like Genesis for exmaple ) was written way after the events. The Gospels are obviously eye witness accounts, and the Psalms obviously tell us as much about David the man as Ecclesiates tells us about Solomons state of mind, but the content is still inspired by God, as instruction to us. Michael P Butler wrote: Its been a couple of years since I last read it, perhaps its time to see if I can learn something different from what I learnt last time. To be truthful, the Bible says that to really understand it, one needs the Holy Spirit and it's certainly my experience that much I did not understand before I immediately comprehended upon becoming a Christian. However, much of it is also pretty clear, especially the Gospels and Acts. Christian The tragedy of cyberspace - that so much can travel so far, and yet mean so little. And you don't spend much time with the opposite sex working day and night, unless the pizza delivery person happens to be young, cute, single and female. I can assure you, I've consumed more than a programmer's allotment of pizza, and these conditions have never aligned. - Christopher Duncan - 18/04/2002
Christian Graus wrote: To be truthful, the Bible says that to really understand it, one needs the Holy Spirit and it's certainly my experience that much I did not understand before I immediately comprehended upon becoming a Christian. A bit like learning COM then :-D Michael :-) Communication is the first step towards enlightenment.
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Paresh Solanki wrote: It could be argued that (for eg) a Hindu has never experienced The Bible. By your reasoning, that Hindu would be judged by his actions. If a Hindu lives in an area where he/she is never exposed to Christianity, then I guess yes, they would be judged on their actions. Paresh Solanki wrote: Therefore if he is a 'good' Hindu he gets eternal life, even though he has never seen or believed in The Bible? The Bible says very few will enter in this way. However, the point I think is that this is very interesting, but also both semantic, and not something we need to understand. The bible tells us enough that we know God will be just, but the fact we know that means it does not apply to us. Having experienced God, I have no doubt He will deal fairly with all who come before Him. It's not my job to worry about that overmuch. Christian The tragedy of cyberspace - that so much can travel so far, and yet mean so little. And you don't spend much time with the opposite sex working day and night, unless the pizza delivery person happens to be young, cute, single and female. I can assure you, I've consumed more than a programmer's allotment of pizza, and these conditions have never aligned. - Christopher Duncan - 18/04/2002
Does that mean that me (Hindu, living in the UK with reasonable exposure to Christianity) will not go to heaven, even though I believe that I have acted as a 'good' person all my life, but that Nish (Hindu? living in India, possibly no exposure to Christianity) living a similar 'good' life will? Correct me if I'm wrong Nish Paresh Solanki There is no substitute for genuine lack of preparation.
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Christian Graus wrote: To be truthful, the Bible says that to really understand it, one needs the Holy Spirit and it's certainly my experience that much I did not understand before I immediately comprehended upon becoming a Christian. A bit like learning COM then :-D Michael :-) Communication is the first step towards enlightenment.
Michael P Butler wrote: A bit like learning COM then ROTFL - did you read my comment earlier ? It was a lot like that really. A lot of readinmprehension of only the periphery, then the lights came on all at once !!! Christian The tragedy of cyberspace - that so much can travel so far, and yet mean so little. And you don't spend much time with the opposite sex working day and night, unless the pizza delivery person happens to be young, cute, single and female. I can assure you, I've consumed more than a programmer's allotment of pizza, and these conditions have never aligned. - Christopher Duncan - 18/04/2002
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Does that mean that me (Hindu, living in the UK with reasonable exposure to Christianity) will not go to heaven, even though I believe that I have acted as a 'good' person all my life, but that Nish (Hindu? living in India, possibly no exposure to Christianity) living a similar 'good' life will? Correct me if I'm wrong Nish Paresh Solanki There is no substitute for genuine lack of preparation.
I hate it when these conversations get to discussing individuals, because it becomes personal. You and Nish are in the same boat, because he obviously has the ability to read the Bible - www.bible.org if nothing else. Both of you have recieved life as a gift from God, and can further gain eternity, by accepting the gift God wants to give you. You cannot earn it, how could you ? Therefore how good you are has nothing to do with it. Christian The tragedy of cyberspace - that so much can travel so far, and yet mean so little. And you don't spend much time with the opposite sex working day and night, unless the pizza delivery person happens to be young, cute, single and female. I can assure you, I've consumed more than a programmer's allotment of pizza, and these conditions have never aligned. - Christopher Duncan - 18/04/2002
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I hate it when these conversations get to discussing individuals, because it becomes personal. You and Nish are in the same boat, because he obviously has the ability to read the Bible - www.bible.org if nothing else. Both of you have recieved life as a gift from God, and can further gain eternity, by accepting the gift God wants to give you. You cannot earn it, how could you ? Therefore how good you are has nothing to do with it. Christian The tragedy of cyberspace - that so much can travel so far, and yet mean so little. And you don't spend much time with the opposite sex working day and night, unless the pizza delivery person happens to be young, cute, single and female. I can assure you, I've consumed more than a programmer's allotment of pizza, and these conditions have never aligned. - Christopher Duncan - 18/04/2002
I didn't mean to get personal, just the top two names that came into my head trying to find an example. Thanks for explaining it to me. I've been to a friend's confirmation and I now understand better what she was going through and why she did it. Paresh Solanki There is no substitute for genuine lack of preparation.
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Michael Martin wrote: Christ, I don't understand what that was trying to say either. I am positive that I type f***ed then, and have no idea where the nut came from. Unless Chris has sabotaged me, adding random words after the the word f*** is found in one of my posts. Either that or God is punishing you :P ( I'm joking, OK ? ) Michael Martin wrote: Also thought you would at least come back with something half sensible. Apparently that means you think I didn't ? I can only but answer what you've said, I don't expect you to get it or agree with it. Michael Martin wrote: People wanting Consultants seem to want someone smarmier than I. Is there such a person ? I can't imagine... :P Michael Martin wrote: Also hoping you might turn on your mobile between 7-9:00PM tomorrow so I can have a quick (I do mean quick, don't want to eat into your time) chat. I don't have it anymore, but my home number is 0362 739694. I should be home and I'm quite happy to chat for a while. I don't have a life - I just sit at the PC and read CP. Michael Martin wrote: I have a pre-paid mobile now that lets me call any mobile after 7:00PM for 10 minutes for 22 cents. You should be able to call me for as long as you like on your land line for $3. If not, I can call you, because that's the deal I get from Optus. I'm going to bed. Well, maybe not - I notice this thread has caused another explosion into my inbox.... Christian The tragedy of cyberspace - that so much can travel so far, and yet mean so little. And you don't spend much time with the opposite sex working day and night, unless the pizza delivery person happens to be young, cute, single and female. I can assure you, I've consumed more than a programmer's allotment of pizza, and these conditions have never aligned. - Christopher Duncan - 18/04/2002
Christian Graus wrote: Apparently that means you think I didn't ? Not at all. I meant when I posted it (and before this thread started), I thought you would at least have a half sensible response/idea to anything I said. Now I hope that, that makes sense. Michael Martin Australia mjm68@tpg.com.au "He orginally got the Tweezers of Destruction through the scanners but then popped back outside for a smoke." - Chris Maunder 26/03/2002
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Actually the bible says nothing about 'eternal suffering'. That is a concept that comes from greek traditions of the afterlife, not christian ones. The only 'punishment' Christianity invokes is to not be allowed to have eternal life. Basically (IMHO) you will just become what all animals become upon death - nothing. "There's a slew of slip 'twixt cup and lip"
Stan Shannon wrote: The only 'punishment' Christianity invokes is to not be allowed to have eternal life You are forgetting Purgetory which complicates things a little... Purgetory acts as a sort of 'Soul Filter', similar to a virus scanner, which cleanses the soul before sending it to heaven. (2b || !2b)
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The point of the rainbow was that God promised never to wipe people out by flood again, the next judgement is by fire, and at the end of this age. That's the point of the Gospel age, people get a chance to turn to God. Christian The tragedy of cyberspace - that so much can travel so far, and yet mean so little. And you don't spend much time with the opposite sex working day and night, unless the pizza delivery person happens to be young, cute, single and female. I can assure you, I've consumed more than a programmer's allotment of pizza, and these conditions have never aligned. - Christopher Duncan - 18/04/2002
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So Churches pick and choose which bits of the Bible to teach/preach depending on their own point of view. So all of the bible isn't taken as gospel (pun intended). Interesting, sort of makes sense on why we have some many different religions based around the same teachings. So could I be considered a christian if I believed that Jesus Christ was born but wasn't a virgin birth? Michael :-)
Michael P Butler wrote: So could I be considered a christian if I believed that Jesus Christ was born but wasn't a virgin birth? Yes ! Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
"real Americans don't criticize their leaders - because they don't want the terrorists to win." -- Quote from Chris Losinger a real American"
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I didn't mean to get personal, just the top two names that came into my head trying to find an example. Thanks for explaining it to me. I've been to a friend's confirmation and I now understand better what she was going through and why she did it. Paresh Solanki There is no substitute for genuine lack of preparation.
Just to throw another spanner in the works, confirmation has nothing to do with the Bible. :) Christian The tragedy of cyberspace - that so much can travel so far, and yet mean so little. And you don't spend much time with the opposite sex working day and night, unless the pizza delivery person happens to be young, cute, single and female. I can assure you, I've consumed more than a programmer's allotment of pizza, and these conditions have never aligned. - Christopher Duncan - 18/04/2002
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Christian Graus wrote: Apparently that means you think I didn't ? Not at all. I meant when I posted it (and before this thread started), I thought you would at least have a half sensible response/idea to anything I said. Now I hope that, that makes sense. Michael Martin Australia mjm68@tpg.com.au "He orginally got the Tweezers of Destruction through the scanners but then popped back outside for a smoke." - Chris Maunder 26/03/2002
Michael Martin wrote: Not at all. I meant when I posted it (and before this thread started), I thought you would at least have a half sensible response/idea to anything I said. Ah... In that case, you're probably overestimating me, but you're still welcome to call :-) Christian The tragedy of cyberspace - that so much can travel so far, and yet mean so little. And you don't spend much time with the opposite sex working day and night, unless the pizza delivery person happens to be young, cute, single and female. I can assure you, I've consumed more than a programmer's allotment of pizza, and these conditions have never aligned. - Christopher Duncan - 18/04/2002