contrarian asks about open source concept
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dd314159 wrote:
But I can see that if people took more control over their economic lives - they would direct more of what happens in the world.
Aye, there's truth in that. Unfortunately, there actually is very little we can control in our economic lives. We pay taxes with little control over how it's spent, and what "control" we have is so indirect, via the people we put into office. We can choose where we shop and bank and buy gas, but that's about it. However, even there, most people really don't have a choice. They're too poor to be able to exercise choice. I probably spend twice what I would otherwise if I didn't buy organic and local produce, for example. I happen to think I make enough money to exercise that choice. But looking at what I owe for taxes this year, it's clear that I made the wrong choice. :( Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithFirst of all any piece of source code dumped into the public domain - open source or otherwise WILL be subject to abuse of one form or another no matter how many 'copyright', 'please credit me', 'don't modify without permission' notices you stick on it. Its going to happen - get used to it because not everyone is as nice as the (mainly) good folks here at Code Project ;) Therefore it doesn't make sense to have any emotional attachment. As for charging $5 (or whatever) - sure its only a couple of beers but we already have shareware - does anybody actually make any money from shareware? Does anyone really pay? I don't know. It would be really nice to be able to write a piece and make money from it through open source but I don't see how it would happen - its like throwing a lamb to the wolves and asking them nicely to save you a piece - they don't care about you, they have what they want - and when can you get some more!
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Hello All - I know a bit about why "open source" is/could be a good thing. But is it used by the wrong people and in the wrong situations? I got to thinking because i just downloaded a free,& very nice, to do list desktop application. It's open source and as i said free. Okay so maybe through multiple people adding to it and perfecting it - it will become ever more awesome. BUT - why shouldn't that person who wrote it benefit more from it that just getting cool points and resume fodder? What about all the people who want to contribute to it? Will they really? After all- those people won't get much even compared to the minimal rewards of the first creator. They and the first person will obviously get satisfaction and fun writing the app too BUT....there are other people out there who are playing the "big boys" games. They figure out how to capitalize on the cleverness that goes undervalued. They are the ones you work for. They are the ones who will keep the labor pools at certain levels so they don't have to pay you too much. They are the ones outsourcing etc...etc... I think it's time people figured out how to value and reap the value of their work. Not allow others to do that for you!!!!!!!! Could there be other models besides open sourcing possible? Especially for these smaller types of projects as opposed to say an operating system? What about developers getting together to run owner/worker companies? Anyway - I think the to do list person could easily collect $5 a pop for the download. All that is for most of us is a couple of "Big Gulps" - and who really needs those? Also let me say these thoughts came about because I was bummed to see this application available for free - because I had some wonderful ideas for a similar and graphically rich to do list project. I wanted to write one and make a little money off of it. You know just in case I get laid off... Please comment. I would love to hear other or similar perspectives. It seems to me free enterprise by and for the people (not just by and for the big boys) becomes harder and harder. Remember owner/worker companies can be wildly successful.
Creating your own business even around a single software product is a very difficult venture and especially so if you are supporting this endeavor through a full-time job. I have been doing just that for several years now and have just reached a point where I am in the process of launching a brand new upgraded website along with two commercial product additions with a third as open-source. It has been a very arduous effort that I do not recommend for the "feint of heart". Nonetheless, if this is something you are interested in doing than take your idea and run with it. Just because a product already exists either commercially or open-sourced doesn't mean that your idea has no chance of yielding some income. MIne hasn't done so yet but that is not because I have a bad product or there are competing products out there. There are a lot of factors that go into any form of software development especially as a Micro-ISV that have noting to do with your idea. For example, my current site is simply not attractive enough to lure technicians to it though it is quite simple to use. My product is for very much of a niche area in development that has been overshadowed by industry promotion and hype for competing technologies. And, I haven't had enough time to market my product properly. These and other factors are all things that will contribute to the success or lack of it in your own endeavors. I still intend to keep going because my goal is to bring simple tools to technicians that we all use and thus need far more than the fancy products that are often promoted over those that simply get the job done. So if you believe in your idea than forget about the perceived competition or competing products. Simply do it and see where it takes you. You may find along the way that you have another idea that will succeed quite well...
Steve Naidamast Black Falcon Software, Inc. blackfalconsoftware@ix.netcom.com
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Hello All - I know a bit about why "open source" is/could be a good thing. But is it used by the wrong people and in the wrong situations? I got to thinking because i just downloaded a free,& very nice, to do list desktop application. It's open source and as i said free. Okay so maybe through multiple people adding to it and perfecting it - it will become ever more awesome. BUT - why shouldn't that person who wrote it benefit more from it that just getting cool points and resume fodder? What about all the people who want to contribute to it? Will they really? After all- those people won't get much even compared to the minimal rewards of the first creator. They and the first person will obviously get satisfaction and fun writing the app too BUT....there are other people out there who are playing the "big boys" games. They figure out how to capitalize on the cleverness that goes undervalued. They are the ones you work for. They are the ones who will keep the labor pools at certain levels so they don't have to pay you too much. They are the ones outsourcing etc...etc... I think it's time people figured out how to value and reap the value of their work. Not allow others to do that for you!!!!!!!! Could there be other models besides open sourcing possible? Especially for these smaller types of projects as opposed to say an operating system? What about developers getting together to run owner/worker companies? Anyway - I think the to do list person could easily collect $5 a pop for the download. All that is for most of us is a couple of "Big Gulps" - and who really needs those? Also let me say these thoughts came about because I was bummed to see this application available for free - because I had some wonderful ideas for a similar and graphically rich to do list project. I wanted to write one and make a little money off of it. You know just in case I get laid off... Please comment. I would love to hear other or similar perspectives. It seems to me free enterprise by and for the people (not just by and for the big boys) becomes harder and harder. Remember owner/worker companies can be wildly successful.
This is kind of a why does open source work question, so I will bring up a very good book on the subject The Cathedral & the Bazaar[^]. Assuming you would rather not read a book let me offer a few points from my experience with open source. Why write an open source application? Most of the open source projects out there did not start as an open source project, but rather as a itch that needed scratching. For instance the TODO application you just downloaded obviously deals with TODO lists in a way that is more in line with what the author wanted than say Outlook. So why not charge for it? People rarely make decisions for one reason. Here are some that might come to mind. To collect money the "right" (read that as legal) way is a none trivial exercise. You must track how much you have made. You must track what you have spent on that software. Then you must fill out a different form of taxes. It is advisable to get a different bank account etc. Perhaps you don't think there is a broad market for it, but a friend wants to help out and share the program. An easy solution to this is to setup a source-forge project that you both have access too. Perhaps you really like the product and would like to show it off a little. Of course the reasons you mentioned are valid as well, such as resume fodder. Finally, several of the students I have interviewed have open source projects that they use as an example of the kind of code they are capable of writing. Will someone really help my open source project? The real question here is why would someone help. Let me tell you the story of Beowulf (Linux Clustering), as I understand it. NASA (The US National Air & Space Association) had a need to improve the speed and reduce the cost of their trajectory calculations. These calculations are complex as everything is moving in a circle and everything is effected by everything else. The obvious solution was to use a super computer, but time on a super computer is very expensive. A cheaper solution is to build a massively parallel computer using a clustering operating system. The issue was that the clustering Os's available were too expensive for NASA. Then they had an idea, what if they took an open source OS and added clustering to it. In this way they would not have to reinvent the wheel of the core OS services (Memory Management, I/O, various services, etc), and they wou
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dd314159 wrote:
But I can see that if people took more control over their economic lives - they would direct more of what happens in the world.
Aye, there's truth in that. Unfortunately, there actually is very little we can control in our economic lives. We pay taxes with little control over how it's spent, and what "control" we have is so indirect, via the people we put into office. We can choose where we shop and bank and buy gas, but that's about it. However, even there, most people really don't have a choice. They're too poor to be able to exercise choice. I probably spend twice what I would otherwise if I didn't buy organic and local produce, for example. I happen to think I make enough money to exercise that choice. But looking at what I owe for taxes this year, it's clear that I made the wrong choice. :( Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithThe two of you sound like very intelligent an passionate people and you've struck a chord that I have been interested in for several years. I would very much like to come up with an alternative to the traditional models that would allow developers of code and content to be paid fairly for their work based on how much it is used. I have been able to generate some small amount of interest in the concept from developers, writers and artists, even from a few salespeople. I don't have any contacts among accounts and lawyers though and I think that for something like this to take off it would have to be structured legally. Would something like this be interesting to you? Do either of you know a lawyer or account that might be interested in a entrepreneurial venture? Feel free to bounce me an e-mail at jhegedus@centrifugeit.com if you'd like to chat a bit more about it. If you post here, I may or may not catch it. Thanks, Jeff
Yeah whatever...