Union for Programmers
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Programmers are grossly under paid and in general programmers lack the balls to speak up and DEMAND from employers what they are worth. It is time for programmers to join the Teamsters and demand that the teamsters act on their behalf. All programmers should receive a minimum of $100,000 per year! An average rate of pay for a C++ programmer should be $150,000 per year. Stop taking crap from employers--stop pissing in their urine bottles like a bunch of sheep. Any company that requires a drug test is demeaning the employee and no employee should ever take this crap! Let's send aclear message to employers that these nerd programmers will not take crap and demand a minimum of $100,000 per--stand up for yourselves guys and gals!:mad: Bill SerGio, The Infomercial King
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Programmers are grossly under paid and in general programmers lack the balls to speak up and DEMAND from employers what they are worth. It is time for programmers to join the Teamsters and demand that the teamsters act on their behalf. All programmers should receive a minimum of $100,000 per year! An average rate of pay for a C++ programmer should be $150,000 per year. Stop taking crap from employers--stop pissing in their urine bottles like a bunch of sheep. Any company that requires a drug test is demeaning the employee and no employee should ever take this crap! Let's send aclear message to employers that these nerd programmers will not take crap and demand a minimum of $100,000 per--stand up for yourselves guys and gals!:mad: Bill SerGio, The Infomercial King
Are you kidding me? As a programmer: :bob: I make more than most of my friends. (Well, those that tell me how much they are making..) :bob: I have flexible hours. I can take off in the middle of the day and run errands, or work from home, or whatever. :bob: Even through the down economy, my company did not suspend promotions or raises. :bob: I'm not stuck doing one specialized job. Unions tend to encourage this, in the name of job security. There are often opportunities to move vertically and horizontally, and in (or out) of management. A union wouldn't do much for me, except charge me some union dues and reduce my paycheck. However, put some unions, green peppers, and mushrooms on a pizza, and then you have my attention. :-D No generalization is 100% true. Not even this one.
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Programmers are grossly under paid and in general programmers lack the balls to speak up and DEMAND from employers what they are worth. It is time for programmers to join the Teamsters and demand that the teamsters act on their behalf. All programmers should receive a minimum of $100,000 per year! An average rate of pay for a C++ programmer should be $150,000 per year. Stop taking crap from employers--stop pissing in their urine bottles like a bunch of sheep. Any company that requires a drug test is demeaning the employee and no employee should ever take this crap! Let's send aclear message to employers that these nerd programmers will not take crap and demand a minimum of $100,000 per--stand up for yourselves guys and gals!:mad: Bill SerGio, The Infomercial King
I would never join a union for the purpose of extorting money from an employer. The employer is the best judge of what my services are worth to him and to the economy in general, that is what I should be paid. The only legitimate reason I can see to form a union is in response to the insane system by which programmers are judged and hired. We need to break the power of the recruiting firms that enjoy so much leverage as to who gets hired and how they are presented. It is *that* system which is the source of the only oppression I am aware of. "There's a slew of slip 'twixt cup and lip"
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Programmers are grossly under paid and in general programmers lack the balls to speak up and DEMAND from employers what they are worth. It is time for programmers to join the Teamsters and demand that the teamsters act on their behalf. All programmers should receive a minimum of $100,000 per year! An average rate of pay for a C++ programmer should be $150,000 per year. Stop taking crap from employers--stop pissing in their urine bottles like a bunch of sheep. Any company that requires a drug test is demeaning the employee and no employee should ever take this crap! Let's send aclear message to employers that these nerd programmers will not take crap and demand a minimum of $100,000 per--stand up for yourselves guys and gals!:mad: Bill SerGio, The Infomercial King
Bill, Unions are a bunch of crap, I have never had a positive expierence being part of one, I could tell you a list of union horror stories most in relation to S.I.P.T.U. I agree with Stan for a change ... scary Regards Ray "Je Suis Mort De Rire"
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I would never join a union for the purpose of extorting money from an employer. The employer is the best judge of what my services are worth to him and to the economy in general, that is what I should be paid. The only legitimate reason I can see to form a union is in response to the insane system by which programmers are judged and hired. We need to break the power of the recruiting firms that enjoy so much leverage as to who gets hired and how they are presented. It is *that* system which is the source of the only oppression I am aware of. "There's a slew of slip 'twixt cup and lip"
Stan Shannon wrote: The only legitimate reason I can see to form a union is in response to the insane system by which programmers are judged and hired. We need to break the power of the recruiting firms that enjoy so much leverage as to who gets hired and how they are presented. It is *that* system which is the source of the only oppression I am aware of. I can see your point there. Also, there is the issue of contractors. It seems a lot of high-tech companies hire some regulars, and a bunch of contractors or supplementals, who typically go through a contracting company. Their benefits aren't the same, and they tend to be much easier to lay off. Sometimes there are legitimate reasons to hire these people as supplementals, but other times there is not. No generalization is 100% true. Not even this one.
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Programmers are grossly under paid and in general programmers lack the balls to speak up and DEMAND from employers what they are worth. It is time for programmers to join the Teamsters and demand that the teamsters act on their behalf. All programmers should receive a minimum of $100,000 per year! An average rate of pay for a C++ programmer should be $150,000 per year. Stop taking crap from employers--stop pissing in their urine bottles like a bunch of sheep. Any company that requires a drug test is demeaning the employee and no employee should ever take this crap! Let's send aclear message to employers that these nerd programmers will not take crap and demand a minimum of $100,000 per--stand up for yourselves guys and gals!:mad: Bill SerGio, The Infomercial King
Bill SerGio wrote: Programmers are grossly under paid Compared with what industry? We are skilled professionals, and as such, I think the wage's we get are resonable. Bill SerGio wrote: in general programmers lack the balls to speak up Your obviously don't work where I work then... I think as skilled professionals we can expect to earn a good wage, hence it being skilled labour - but don't take the piss mate. I hate to say this, cause I'm a programmer, but there's a lot of us out there, which means companies can pay less, more demand for the jobs puts the control in the hands of the companies. In Britain at the moment, there is meant to be a skills shortage for people in IT, but myself, I've found that it can be difficult to get a good job - I only left Uni last year, and I know how hard it can be allready...
Dylan Kenneally London, UK
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I would never join a union for the purpose of extorting money from an employer. The employer is the best judge of what my services are worth to him and to the economy in general, that is what I should be paid. The only legitimate reason I can see to form a union is in response to the insane system by which programmers are judged and hired. We need to break the power of the recruiting firms that enjoy so much leverage as to who gets hired and how they are presented. It is *that* system which is the source of the only oppression I am aware of. "There's a slew of slip 'twixt cup and lip"
Stan Shannon wrote: I would never join a union for the purpose of extorting money from an employer. The employer is the best judge of what my services are worth to him and to the economy in general, that is what I should be paid. With all due respect, Stan, it's the not the company's responsibility to pay you what you're worth. The company's responsibilities are to its share holders and to its customers/clients. Part of fulfilling that task is keeping expenses (including salaries) as low as possible while still producing a quality product or service. As the man said, You don't make what you deserve. You make what you negotiate. Cheers, Tom Archer Author - Inside C#, Visual C++.NET Bible
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Programmers are grossly under paid and in general programmers lack the balls to speak up and DEMAND from employers what they are worth. It is time for programmers to join the Teamsters and demand that the teamsters act on their behalf. All programmers should receive a minimum of $100,000 per year! An average rate of pay for a C++ programmer should be $150,000 per year. Stop taking crap from employers--stop pissing in their urine bottles like a bunch of sheep. Any company that requires a drug test is demeaning the employee and no employee should ever take this crap! Let's send aclear message to employers that these nerd programmers will not take crap and demand a minimum of $100,000 per--stand up for yourselves guys and gals!:mad: Bill SerGio, The Infomercial King
I think in general we are a highly paid workforce already. When you start out you may be on a lower wage, but this improves as you gain experience. A union would just get in the way, and how would it protect the workers of one company by getting another companies employees to strike etc? Now, if there were 100+ employees at the same firm, I could see them having a roll, but in small firms such as mine, it would be useless. I stand up for what I am worth. I just realised I had to go through some lean years to get where I am today. Roger Allen Sonork 100.10016 If I had a quote, it would be a very good one.
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Programmers are grossly under paid and in general programmers lack the balls to speak up and DEMAND from employers what they are worth. It is time for programmers to join the Teamsters and demand that the teamsters act on their behalf. All programmers should receive a minimum of $100,000 per year! An average rate of pay for a C++ programmer should be $150,000 per year. Stop taking crap from employers--stop pissing in their urine bottles like a bunch of sheep. Any company that requires a drug test is demeaning the employee and no employee should ever take this crap! Let's send aclear message to employers that these nerd programmers will not take crap and demand a minimum of $100,000 per--stand up for yourselves guys and gals!:mad: Bill SerGio, The Infomercial King
Bill, Individual programmers have the power in their hands and that is how it should be. Let me spell out a scenario for you. Let’s suppose we have two programmers, the first is Neo; he’s a regular genius that can crank out C++ code while sleeping. He’s proficient and meets deadlines consistently and his code is an example of clear and concise programming. The second programmer is Sam. Sam is lazy and hates his job and fails to meet deadlines, not to mention that Sam’s code never passes a peer review. They make the same amount of money. Why? Well because that’s what labor unions do. They standardize pay and work hours and benefits. They do this to the point that there is no distinction between workers that perform their jobs and those that are slackers. I’m against the organization of labor unions for programmers. Unions had a time and a purpose. That time was when big business where treating workers unfairly. The purpose was to make those big companies pay a fair wage for and honest and fair days work. Nowadays unions treat big business (and small companies) unfairly. How? By protecting the worker at any cost. The companies that they work for can not touch workers that are constantly late or perform poorly and this is because of unions. Myself, as an entrepreneur, want to have the ability to hire and fire as I see fit. If a programmer at my company is not cutting it in anyway, I want to be able to let him move on and find someone more suitable for the task. Conversely, if I have a programmer that is cranking out code like Neo in my example above, then I want to be able to reward him. Today unions are more a form of socialism than they are anything else and to that I say “No thanks!” Dave "Dak Lozar" Loeser
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Stan Shannon wrote: I would never join a union for the purpose of extorting money from an employer. The employer is the best judge of what my services are worth to him and to the economy in general, that is what I should be paid. With all due respect, Stan, it's the not the company's responsibility to pay you what you're worth. The company's responsibilities are to its share holders and to its customers/clients. Part of fulfilling that task is keeping expenses (including salaries) as low as possible while still producing a quality product or service. As the man said, You don't make what you deserve. You make what you negotiate. Cheers, Tom Archer Author - Inside C#, Visual C++.NET Bible
Tom Archer wrote: The company's responsibilities are to its share holders and to its customers/clients. That is precisely why I included the modifier "and to the economy in general". There are many factors which the employer must consider when deciding what I'm worth. It still boils down to the issue that the employer has a clearer picture of how much (little) he must pay me for my services. For a healthy economy, employers should be free to do that otherwise we will have economic resources diverted to people not based on their value to the economy in general but based upon some arbitrary and inefficient bureacratic formula of some kind. I should be paid what I'm worth, and the employer is the only one who can truly make that judgement. Of course the employer is going to try to pay me as little as possible. So what? I'll get my $150,000 - if I am producing at that level. Yes, I want to make as much money as possible, but I also want to live in a healthy, stable, robust economy. In other words, I would rather have a 90% chance of keeping a $70k job than a 10% chance of keeping a $150k job. "There's a slew of slip 'twixt cup and lip"
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH Tim Smith I know what you're thinking punk, you're thinking did he spell check this document? Well, to tell you the truth I kinda forgot myself in all this excitement. But being this here's CodeProject, the most powerful forums in the world and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question, Do I feel lucky? Well do ya punk?
Best answer yet! Crivo Automated Credit Assessment
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Programmers are grossly under paid and in general programmers lack the balls to speak up and DEMAND from employers what they are worth. It is time for programmers to join the Teamsters and demand that the teamsters act on their behalf. All programmers should receive a minimum of $100,000 per year! An average rate of pay for a C++ programmer should be $150,000 per year. Stop taking crap from employers--stop pissing in their urine bottles like a bunch of sheep. Any company that requires a drug test is demeaning the employee and no employee should ever take this crap! Let's send aclear message to employers that these nerd programmers will not take crap and demand a minimum of $100,000 per--stand up for yourselves guys and gals!:mad: Bill SerGio, The Infomercial King
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH Tim Smith I know what you're thinking punk, you're thinking did he spell check this document? Well, to tell you the truth I kinda forgot myself in all this excitement. But being this here's CodeProject, the most powerful forums in the world and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question, Do I feel lucky? Well do ya punk?
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Programmers are grossly under paid and in general programmers lack the balls to speak up and DEMAND from employers what they are worth. It is time for programmers to join the Teamsters and demand that the teamsters act on their behalf. All programmers should receive a minimum of $100,000 per year! An average rate of pay for a C++ programmer should be $150,000 per year. Stop taking crap from employers--stop pissing in their urine bottles like a bunch of sheep. Any company that requires a drug test is demeaning the employee and no employee should ever take this crap! Let's send aclear message to employers that these nerd programmers will not take crap and demand a minimum of $100,000 per--stand up for yourselves guys and gals!:mad: Bill SerGio, The Infomercial King
You are not the slave of your employer. You have the right and the ability to seek a better paying job or to create your own better paying job. If you don't like the pay or the benefits, take your skills elsewhere. Heck, you may even convince your current employer to give you a raise if they know you are looking around. IMHO, unions are a construct of socialists. If you live in a free country, stand up for yourself! Like it or not, I'm right.
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Programmers are grossly under paid and in general programmers lack the balls to speak up and DEMAND from employers what they are worth. It is time for programmers to join the Teamsters and demand that the teamsters act on their behalf. All programmers should receive a minimum of $100,000 per year! An average rate of pay for a C++ programmer should be $150,000 per year. Stop taking crap from employers--stop pissing in their urine bottles like a bunch of sheep. Any company that requires a drug test is demeaning the employee and no employee should ever take this crap! Let's send aclear message to employers that these nerd programmers will not take crap and demand a minimum of $100,000 per--stand up for yourselves guys and gals!:mad: Bill SerGio, The Infomercial King
Bill SerGio wrote: stop pissing in their urine bottles like a bunch of sheep Oh dear Bill, ewe have been away for far too long... :rolleyes: ____________________ David Wulff hu·mour Pronunciation Key (hymr) n. & v. Chiefly British Dave's Code Project Screensaver and Wallpaper page.
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH Tim Smith I know what you're thinking punk, you're thinking did he spell check this document? Well, to tell you the truth I kinda forgot myself in all this excitement. But being this here's CodeProject, the most powerful forums in the world and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question, Do I feel lucky? Well do ya punk?
Tim Smith wrote: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH The lounge can be a real page-turner at times. - Jason (SonorkID 100.611) "I just recieved an email from myself but I didn't send it ?" - Colin Davies, Sonork conference
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Tim Smith wrote: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH The lounge can be a real page-turner at times. - Jason (SonorkID 100.611) "I just recieved an email from myself but I didn't send it ?" - Colin Davies, Sonork conference
My wit even amuses me. Tim Smith I know what you're thinking punk, you're thinking did he spell check this document? Well, to tell you the truth I kinda forgot myself in all this excitement. But being this here's CodeProject, the most powerful forums in the world and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question, Do I feel lucky? Well do ya punk?
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Programmers are grossly under paid and in general programmers lack the balls to speak up and DEMAND from employers what they are worth. It is time for programmers to join the Teamsters and demand that the teamsters act on their behalf. All programmers should receive a minimum of $100,000 per year! An average rate of pay for a C++ programmer should be $150,000 per year. Stop taking crap from employers--stop pissing in their urine bottles like a bunch of sheep. Any company that requires a drug test is demeaning the employee and no employee should ever take this crap! Let's send aclear message to employers that these nerd programmers will not take crap and demand a minimum of $100,000 per--stand up for yourselves guys and gals!:mad: Bill SerGio, The Infomercial King
Bill SerGio wrote: Stop taking crap from employers--stop pissing in their urine bottles like a bunch of sheep Is there any way to stop taking crap from Sergio? Even if I was upset with my situation the last place I'd go for help is to somebody like this guy.
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Programmers are grossly under paid and in general programmers lack the balls to speak up and DEMAND from employers what they are worth. It is time for programmers to join the Teamsters and demand that the teamsters act on their behalf. All programmers should receive a minimum of $100,000 per year! An average rate of pay for a C++ programmer should be $150,000 per year. Stop taking crap from employers--stop pissing in their urine bottles like a bunch of sheep. Any company that requires a drug test is demeaning the employee and no employee should ever take this crap! Let's send aclear message to employers that these nerd programmers will not take crap and demand a minimum of $100,000 per--stand up for yourselves guys and gals!:mad: Bill SerGio, The Infomercial King
$100k? If only. The games industry would fall apart overnight if us games programmers demanded that :( -- Help me! I'm turning into a grapefruit!
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Bill SerGio wrote: Stop taking crap from employers--stop pissing in their urine bottles like a bunch of sheep Is there any way to stop taking crap from Sergio? Even if I was upset with my situation the last place I'd go for help is to somebody like this guy.
Unless you needed an infomercial :-D -- Help me! I'm turning into a grapefruit!
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Programmers are grossly under paid and in general programmers lack the balls to speak up and DEMAND from employers what they are worth. It is time for programmers to join the Teamsters and demand that the teamsters act on their behalf. All programmers should receive a minimum of $100,000 per year! An average rate of pay for a C++ programmer should be $150,000 per year. Stop taking crap from employers--stop pissing in their urine bottles like a bunch of sheep. Any company that requires a drug test is demeaning the employee and no employee should ever take this crap! Let's send aclear message to employers that these nerd programmers will not take crap and demand a minimum of $100,000 per--stand up for yourselves guys and gals!:mad: Bill SerGio, The Infomercial King
You're not making $100,000 yet?
Build a man a fire, and he will be warm for a day
Light a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life!