Wanker authors writing wanker books
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http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/4981/newbiepoperc1.jpg
The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity. - John Adams
hehehe, clearly a wanker also!
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I aint a programmer but if I was I would be really pissed with these dickheads writing books named "Learn (insert programming language here) in 24 hours" Now of course you'd be even more stupid to buy one of these books expecting to learn this in 24 hours however why aren't real programmers hammering these bloody idiots and stop them from making a craft they have learnt and perfected after years and years sound like its a day job to learn!!!! Its crap and each of these authors should be told to pull their heads in and write something decent or dont write it at all! While I appreciate an expert sharing knowledge, it seems that many of these so called "authors" cant make money from thier programming so resort to writing crappy books and releasing them as ebooks because only the two bit publishers will accept them!
Hehe... I blogged about this a while back: http://smoothjazzy.blogspot.com/2006/12/be-programmer-but-not-today.html[^]
"Quality Software since 1983!"
http://www.smoothjazzy.com/ - see the "Programming" section for freeware tools and articles. -
Christian Graus wrote:
Apparently.
Wow, your ARE a schizo, in another are of the board you take a different view of things. Ill just accept that this mindless comment is just the Canadian part of you coming out.
Christian Graus wrote:
Well, my first ever C++ book was a '24 hours' book, and I knew fully that it was a beginner book, broken into 24 hour long lessons ( well, they took me an average of 20 minutes, but I understood the concept ). I found that book gave me an excellent beginning in c++, I moved on to more complex book and was working as a C++ developer 6 months after buying it.
Given your previous experience I don't doubt it is possible however the "Who should read this book" in the specific book I was referring to clearly states that newbies were who it was aimed at
idyot wrote:
Wow, your ARE a schizo, in another are of the board you take a different view of things.
It was a bizarre thing for you to say, and so commented on it. I did answer your real question in another board, after I read this.
idyot wrote:
Given your previous experience I don't doubt it is possible however the "Who should read this book" in the specific book I was referring to clearly states that newbies were who it was aimed at
Like I said, it was my first ever C++ book. I had done BASIC many years before, but had not programmed for a long, long time.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
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Hehe... I blogged about this a while back: http://smoothjazzy.blogspot.com/2006/12/be-programmer-but-not-today.html[^]
"Quality Software since 1983!"
http://www.smoothjazzy.com/ - see the "Programming" section for freeware tools and articles.Ahhh some sensible conversation, funny that it took a female to bring the conversation back to something sensible. Compare two posts 1: sends me a picture of the pope saying "go away noob" and..... 2: refers to a blog written previously saying similar things a whole lot more eloquently. Guess which one is which! I like what this blog says and I have since had my eyes opened to another perspective also. These authors of Learn X in 24 hours are merely trying to pass on the enthusiasm they have for their topic to others...Learn X in 5 years of hard slog...probably wont do it :) so I guess I need to take the wanker bit back and apologise to the authors for not seeing things their way. Still Im left in a quandry as to what to learn first as a complete newbie Thanks
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Ahhh some sensible conversation, funny that it took a female to bring the conversation back to something sensible. Compare two posts 1: sends me a picture of the pope saying "go away noob" and..... 2: refers to a blog written previously saying similar things a whole lot more eloquently. Guess which one is which! I like what this blog says and I have since had my eyes opened to another perspective also. These authors of Learn X in 24 hours are merely trying to pass on the enthusiasm they have for their topic to others...Learn X in 5 years of hard slog...probably wont do it :) so I guess I need to take the wanker bit back and apologise to the authors for not seeing things their way. Still Im left in a quandry as to what to learn first as a complete newbie Thanks
There were a few people did give you pretty good advice on this thread. Don't be so hard on them... programmers are a weird lot, and I might have said the same things if people hadn't done it already. That's just the way we are. As I said in my post, as a beginner you want to learn SQL and something else. If you want to go the Microsoft route, it should be C# or VB, and C# would be better. If you want to go the open-source or more general-purpose route, you have a lot of choices but C++ and Java are the most popular I think. You still want to learn SQL. Books aren't always the best way. Those books are good but their titles are misleading and they often don't cover the basics of computer programming in general, so it's hard for an abject noob to get started. If you don't mind putting some money forth, you can take some classes at your local college or vo-tech school, but many college programming classes are not very good. Probly the best way to learn is to have a very experienced and patient friend teach you, but it's hard to meet such people sometimes. As you pointed out repeatedly, this is a skill that takes years to master, and not everyone is capable of doing it, which is why the good ones are so well paid. Most people can learn the basics if they really want to, but few people have the combination of passion, aptitude, and knowledge to do the job well, and it takes years of study and dedication to the craft to reach that level. Good luck!
"Quality Software since 1983!"
http://www.smoothjazzy.com/ - see the "Programming" section for freeware tools and articles. -
There were a few people did give you pretty good advice on this thread. Don't be so hard on them... programmers are a weird lot, and I might have said the same things if people hadn't done it already. That's just the way we are. As I said in my post, as a beginner you want to learn SQL and something else. If you want to go the Microsoft route, it should be C# or VB, and C# would be better. If you want to go the open-source or more general-purpose route, you have a lot of choices but C++ and Java are the most popular I think. You still want to learn SQL. Books aren't always the best way. Those books are good but their titles are misleading and they often don't cover the basics of computer programming in general, so it's hard for an abject noob to get started. If you don't mind putting some money forth, you can take some classes at your local college or vo-tech school, but many college programming classes are not very good. Probly the best way to learn is to have a very experienced and patient friend teach you, but it's hard to meet such people sometimes. As you pointed out repeatedly, this is a skill that takes years to master, and not everyone is capable of doing it, which is why the good ones are so well paid. Most people can learn the basics if they really want to, but few people have the combination of passion, aptitude, and knowledge to do the job well, and it takes years of study and dedication to the craft to reach that level. Good luck!
"Quality Software since 1983!"
http://www.smoothjazzy.com/ - see the "Programming" section for freeware tools and articles.Jasmine2501 wrote:
There were a few people did give you pretty good advice on this thread. Don't be so hard on them
The ones who gave good advice were responded too IMHO reasonably by me, others just wanted a fight and gave no good reasons as to why such books were good, just hurling abuse, which is ok Im up for it and dont hold grudges over internet arguments! Perhaps the title of my original post didnt help the mood.:-O Overall though it generated some responses and I did get some good stuff you are right!
Jasmine2501 wrote:
Most people can learn the basics if they really want to
I want to
Jasmine2501 wrote:
but few people have the combination of passion, aptitude, and knowledge to do the job well, and it takes years of study and dedication to the craft to reach that level
I only wish to begin to learn and see where it takes me, I dont expect to ever do it professionaly but it is an area that interests me
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hehehe, clearly a wanker also!
:laugh: The pope? :-D The biggest of them all...
-- Raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
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Jasmine2501 wrote:
There were a few people did give you pretty good advice on this thread. Don't be so hard on them
The ones who gave good advice were responded too IMHO reasonably by me, others just wanted a fight and gave no good reasons as to why such books were good, just hurling abuse, which is ok Im up for it and dont hold grudges over internet arguments! Perhaps the title of my original post didnt help the mood.:-O Overall though it generated some responses and I did get some good stuff you are right!
Jasmine2501 wrote:
Most people can learn the basics if they really want to
I want to
Jasmine2501 wrote:
but few people have the combination of passion, aptitude, and knowledge to do the job well, and it takes years of study and dedication to the craft to reach that level
I only wish to begin to learn and see where it takes me, I dont expect to ever do it professionaly but it is an area that interests me
Quote: Perhaps the title of my original post didnt help the mood. Nah, everyone knows that a noob posting calling people names that a 12 year old would use will only generate friendly responses.
The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity. - John Adams
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Quote: Perhaps the title of my original post didnt help the mood. Nah, everyone knows that a noob posting calling people names that a 12 year old would use will only generate friendly responses.
The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity. - John Adams
Buddy anything you say has very little weight ...it was a feeling I had about the authors of these books..IT IS AFTER ALL CALLED THE SOAPBOX! So unless your one of those authors....I'm not that interested in what you have to say, your response was ridiculous to say the least!
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Buddy anything you say has very little weight ...it was a feeling I had about the authors of these books..IT IS AFTER ALL CALLED THE SOAPBOX! So unless your one of those authors....I'm not that interested in what you have to say, your response was ridiculous to say the least!
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Jasmine2501 wrote:
There were a few people did give you pretty good advice on this thread. Don't be so hard on them
The ones who gave good advice were responded too IMHO reasonably by me, others just wanted a fight and gave no good reasons as to why such books were good, just hurling abuse, which is ok Im up for it and dont hold grudges over internet arguments! Perhaps the title of my original post didnt help the mood.:-O Overall though it generated some responses and I did get some good stuff you are right!
Jasmine2501 wrote:
Most people can learn the basics if they really want to
I want to
Jasmine2501 wrote:
but few people have the combination of passion, aptitude, and knowledge to do the job well, and it takes years of study and dedication to the craft to reach that level
I only wish to begin to learn and see where it takes me, I dont expect to ever do it professionaly but it is an area that interests me
idyot wrote:
I dont expect to ever do it professionaly but it is an area that interests me
People who say things like that often end up being the most gifted programmers, because their interest drives them, rather than their career goals. I have a degree in Biology, and I said the very same thing myself when I was younger. Now I make really good money doing something I always thought was just for fun. My dad raised me to understand that work is hard, and you don't enjoy it, but you do it because you have to. Since I enjoyed computer programming I was under the impression that it wasn't a proper job, since you aren't supposed to enjoy work. Anyway, I got over that notion and now I've turned a hobby into a career that is supporting me very nicely. Don't discount the possibility of that happening to you. Good luck to you. It sounds like you have a good intention and will probably do well with it.
"Quality Software since 1983!"
http://www.smoothjazzy.com/ - see the "Programming" section for freeware tools and articles. -
idyot wrote:
I dont expect to ever do it professionaly but it is an area that interests me
People who say things like that often end up being the most gifted programmers, because their interest drives them, rather than their career goals. I have a degree in Biology, and I said the very same thing myself when I was younger. Now I make really good money doing something I always thought was just for fun. My dad raised me to understand that work is hard, and you don't enjoy it, but you do it because you have to. Since I enjoyed computer programming I was under the impression that it wasn't a proper job, since you aren't supposed to enjoy work. Anyway, I got over that notion and now I've turned a hobby into a career that is supporting me very nicely. Don't discount the possibility of that happening to you. Good luck to you. It sounds like you have a good intention and will probably do well with it.
"Quality Software since 1983!"
http://www.smoothjazzy.com/ - see the "Programming" section for freeware tools and articles.Hey, Well thanks for encouragement....ya know I kinda feel a bit stupid the way I titled my original post but IT IS the soapbox.....and it did get some resposne and since then I have done a whole lot with the help of people in this forum.... I have finally found a good VB.NET book, purchased it today and am already through the first 4 chapters....Deitels How to program in Visual Basic.NET. Its the first one Ive found that actually DOES talk about HOW to program in VB.NET and doesnt spend 75% of the book on form design! As for a future in computer programming...well Im gettting a bit old for a career change now and I love my job as it is...but I guess I should never discount anything. Bit hard to imagine as I sit here writing my first Console Application from the new book!! :) Cheers for now, I might stay off the soapbox till I know what Im talking about (should take my own advice)
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Chris-Kaiser wrote:
I'll entertain this for a moment, although it reeks of trolling.
How?
Chris-Kaiser wrote:
Then what are you doing here?
To learn to program from real programmers
Chris-Kaiser wrote:
That applies to all books regardless of whether they are part of the Dummy series or the 24 hour series. I used one awhile back when I needed to pick up a new language and it worked fine. It was a Java in 24 hours. And you know what? It worked. In 24 hours I was writing Java code.
I hope that the limited time it took you to take this language up and therefore the lack of depth with which you can attack an application using Java is reflected in the price you charge you clients for your crappy and inefficient code
Chris-Kaiser wrote:
Nice attempt at a rant Idyot. I understand your login now. And would definately take you for a Kyle. You should get more creative on your next attempt, as this one was quite hollow.
Just my two cents, I figured it was ONLY real programmers who would agree anyway. Its the wannabes who would get upset with my comments and it is clear which group you belong too
Chris-Kaiser wrote:
corrected the spelling for sombunall. Leaving irregardless, irregardless of whether you accept it as standard vs nonstandard. I know, double negative an all, but I like the word for that very reason. Kinda like I ain't doin' nuttin'.This statement was never false.
Hehe, well arent you a freaking genius!
idyot wrote:
I hope that the limited time it took you to take this language up and therefore the lack of depth with which you can attack an application using Java is reflected in the price you charge you clients for your crappy and inefficient code
The syntax doesn't control efficiency. Software engineering does. It doesn't matter which language you use. The constructs are mostly the same. And Java being a C-syntax like language, it isn't difficult to pick up if you are already fluent with a C-syntax like language. So, whatever. The code wasn't crappy, but your comments reveal that you are trolling a bit. How do you know its inefficient and crappy? :rolleyes:
idyot wrote:
Just my two cents, I figured it was ONLY real programmers who would agree anyway. Its the wannabes who would get upset with my comments and it is clear which group you belong too
Hahahahaha.... oh that's rich. :laugh: Considering I've been professionally developing software for 10 years. Funny though.
idyot wrote:
Hehe, well arent you a freaking genius!
Troll.
This statement was never false.
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??? :confused: If that wasn't an honest rant, I don't know what is....
-- This Episode Has Been Modified To Fit Your Primitive Screen
Yeah, apparently it isn't the standard trollish fare, but was pretty short sighted. And made too many assumptions. I've used 24 hour books to benefit. Like I said, great for picking up new syntax. Oh well, we can't always hit the mark. [edit] Actually after reading his responses below, I wonder if in fact I did miss the mark. He's definately trolling. [/edit]
This statement was never false.
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Yeah, apparently it isn't the standard trollish fare, but was pretty short sighted. And made too many assumptions. I've used 24 hour books to benefit. Like I said, great for picking up new syntax. Oh well, we can't always hit the mark. [edit] Actually after reading his responses below, I wonder if in fact I did miss the mark. He's definately trolling. [/edit]
This statement was never false.
I've had the opposite experience. Those I've read has been.. well, crappy. Not crappy enough to rant about it publicly though. :)
-- Raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
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I've had the opposite experience. Those I've read has been.. well, crappy. Not crappy enough to rant about it publicly though. :)
-- Raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
yeah, I guess I was only going at them from a "show me what the syntax is" perspective. I didn't expect too much from them. And this was back in the 90s.
This statement was never false.
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idyot wrote:
I hope that the limited time it took you to take this language up and therefore the lack of depth with which you can attack an application using Java is reflected in the price you charge you clients for your crappy and inefficient code
The syntax doesn't control efficiency. Software engineering does. It doesn't matter which language you use. The constructs are mostly the same. And Java being a C-syntax like language, it isn't difficult to pick up if you are already fluent with a C-syntax like language. So, whatever. The code wasn't crappy, but your comments reveal that you are trolling a bit. How do you know its inefficient and crappy? :rolleyes:
idyot wrote:
Just my two cents, I figured it was ONLY real programmers who would agree anyway. Its the wannabes who would get upset with my comments and it is clear which group you belong too
Hahahahaha.... oh that's rich. :laugh: Considering I've been professionally developing software for 10 years. Funny though.
idyot wrote:
Hehe, well arent you a freaking genius!
Troll.
This statement was never false.
Wow, programmer or not you ARE a tosser....did u learn a new word recently? (TROLL) Ok so you have used it enough now for it to be firmly embedded in your brain now go learn another one! Heres a suggestion for a new word to learn you could perhaps use it for your resume when some client is looking for a programmer that not as good but a bit cheaper than most. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrogant[^]
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Wow, programmer or not you ARE a tosser....did u learn a new word recently? (TROLL) Ok so you have used it enough now for it to be firmly embedded in your brain now go learn another one! Heres a suggestion for a new word to learn you could perhaps use it for your resume when some client is looking for a programmer that not as good but a bit cheaper than most. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrogant[^]
You appear to like the sound of your own voice. Whatever. Enjoy yourself. But here's a thought. You entered into a group of people and so far those that didn't respond like you expected you proceeded to attempt personal insults. I called you a troll because half of your posts so far have been to incite rather than discuss whatever issue is at hand. You assumed that we should agree with your synopsis regarding 24 hour books, and those who haven't you deem wannabees. As if you have any experience in this field to even speak from. And I responded with views on the subject of these books and gave you my insights despite suspecting that you were a troll. Now I see that you are just a pilot dabbling in programming, so maybe I was wrong about the trolling. But you do appear full of yourself. While yes, I responded with some acerbic tone, you've contributed at least as much, so go on calling the kettle black. Now I'll just call you a jackass. And yes, I realize I'm being a jerk. Your welcome.
This statement was never false.
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You appear to like the sound of your own voice. Whatever. Enjoy yourself. But here's a thought. You entered into a group of people and so far those that didn't respond like you expected you proceeded to attempt personal insults. I called you a troll because half of your posts so far have been to incite rather than discuss whatever issue is at hand. You assumed that we should agree with your synopsis regarding 24 hour books, and those who haven't you deem wannabees. As if you have any experience in this field to even speak from. And I responded with views on the subject of these books and gave you my insights despite suspecting that you were a troll. Now I see that you are just a pilot dabbling in programming, so maybe I was wrong about the trolling. But you do appear full of yourself. While yes, I responded with some acerbic tone, you've contributed at least as much, so go on calling the kettle black. Now I'll just call you a jackass. And yes, I realize I'm being a jerk. Your welcome.
This statement was never false.
Well to be honest its really only you that I have had cause to give back a bit to. Others responded in a far more reasonable way. I did not expect everyone to agree.......what kind of soap box rant would that be......pretty boring. Yeah wrong about the trolling whatever that is! Full of myself? perhaps, its difficult to guage what people are really like reading forums but it is often said that pilots are full of themseves so maybe you are correct on that one Jackass? No ......you seem to be rather uptight about it all. In looking at many of your responses to other parts of this and other forums it seems you dont have too much work on at the moment, (is there noone looking for a cheaper less skilled programmer anywhere? try India!) this attitude of your shines through in almost all of your posts so Im not feeling singled out. Anyway, thats about it from me on this..Ive said my piece responded appropriately to the right people, had reasonable discussion with decent responders and now think its time to move on....Its not you its me...and I think its best for both of us :((
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Well to be honest its really only you that I have had cause to give back a bit to. Others responded in a far more reasonable way. I did not expect everyone to agree.......what kind of soap box rant would that be......pretty boring. Yeah wrong about the trolling whatever that is! Full of myself? perhaps, its difficult to guage what people are really like reading forums but it is often said that pilots are full of themseves so maybe you are correct on that one Jackass? No ......you seem to be rather uptight about it all. In looking at many of your responses to other parts of this and other forums it seems you dont have too much work on at the moment, (is there noone looking for a cheaper less skilled programmer anywhere? try India!) this attitude of your shines through in almost all of your posts so Im not feeling singled out. Anyway, thats about it from me on this..Ive said my piece responded appropriately to the right people, had reasonable discussion with decent responders and now think its time to move on....Its not you its me...and I think its best for both of us :((
Visual Very Basic wrote:
Yeah wrong about the trolling whatever that is!
Trolling is when you post something to incite argument. That's all.
Visual Very Basic wrote:
n looking at many of your responses to other parts of this and other forums it seems you dont have too much work on at the moment, (is there noone looking for a cheaper less skilled programmer anywhere? try India!) this attitude of your shines through in almost all of your posts so Im not feeling singled out.
And its these comments that caused my initial assumption. Your trying to insult me maybe, but it isn't very creative. This is also what prompts the Jackass comment. I could be wrong. Out of curiousity I looked at my message history. Funny. Only on some of the days do I post much. Some days I don't post a thing. And you know, or maybe you wouldn't, when debugging an application that takes about 10 minutes to get started leaves plenty of time to post. So, again you seem to be assuming a bit about this profession and attempting to provoke me by calling me cheap unskilled labor. Interesting tactic like I said. Good luck with that.
This statement was never false.
