21st Century Socialism
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IamChrisMcCall wrote:
Very selective of you. So if you can't afford to put a fire out yourself, your government steps in and does it for you? Get off the government teat!
Again, that is not a "social program". A social program redistributes goods and services from one group to another in the interest of achieving social equity. A fire department most certainly does not do that.
IamChrisMcCall wrote:
You work for the government, Redster! Unless you held a bake sale, your paycheck is all tax money redistributed to your pocket.
Oh, I see. Once again you don't actually check your sources for veracity. But judging from your past claims, I'm not surprised. I hate to break this to you, but my pay is not funded by taxation. Sorry.
IamChrisMcCall wrote:
Your paycheck is charity because I and other Americans are nice enough to let you continue having it. The majority of Americans identify as Democrats. You do the rest I am getting tired of doing your job for you.
Wrong. A slightly higher number of people identify themselves as Democrats as compared to Republicans. It is not a "majority". It is (last I checked) roughly 36% of the population. Again...Sorry to burst your bubble.
Red Stateler wrote:
Again, that is not a "social program". A social program redistributes goods and services from one group to another in the interest of achieving social equity. A fire department most certainly does not do that.
Sure they do.
Red Stateler wrote:
my pay is not funded by taxation. Sorry.
You work for the Post Office? :laugh:
Red Stateler wrote:
It is not a "majority". It is (last I checked) roughly 36% of the population. Again...Sorry to burst your bubble.
Aww, wookit who doesn't know what a majority means... :(
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Stan Shannon wrote:
Thats what I thought. You consider any profit at all by corporate America to be "welfare".
First off, "welfare" is your term. Stop putting it in quotes. Secondly, I consider any war profiteering to be "welfare". You thought I brought up Halliburton just because it was any ol' company?
Stan Shannon wrote:
Yeah, I'm real intimidated, candy ass.
I don't care if you're intimidated. What grown adult tries to intimidate another over the internet?
Stan Shannon wrote:
and if you want to find out what league I'm in, I'm in the phone book.
Oh, right, that kind of adult. ;) Thanks for your little story of how some people in your family used to be able to ranch or something. Too bad you didn't carry on in any authentic way. I know how to rope and ride because that's how we did branding on the working ranch I lived on. Please, fill me in on the ways of rural living. Maybe your great-great-grandfather (the last of your rotten seed to live off the land) told a story some time while you were in earshot! :laugh: How many head of cattle on the Shannon ranch? And no, your fat family members don't count! :laugh: Listen, boy, don't try to tell me about rural life from behind your 400 channels of satellite TV and squeaky-clean pickup truck. I have fed cattle in 50 degrees below zero, in order to get food for myself. I told you, son, you are outclassed. By a wine-and-cheese pussy-ass faggot liberal, too! Extra embarassing for you! Not only am I more at home in the streets than you are, I can out-country you too! :laugh: You've never met a poor man who was much of a roper? You want to? I know plenty and they'd love to hear all about how they're full of shit.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Just curious.
Even SUV-driving douchebags get one thing right every once in a while :)
IamChrisMcCall wrote:
I told you, son, you are outclassed. By a wine-and-cheese p***-a** f***** liberal, too! Extra embarassing for you!
I censored that out for you because I know that you didn't mean to post that. As a Catholic, I'm sure you condemn rage and pride, but advocate temperance...
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Stan Shannon wrote:
Thats what I thought. You consider any profit at all by corporate America to be "welfare".
First off, "welfare" is your term. Stop putting it in quotes. Secondly, I consider any war profiteering to be "welfare". You thought I brought up Halliburton just because it was any ol' company?
Stan Shannon wrote:
Yeah, I'm real intimidated, candy ass.
I don't care if you're intimidated. What grown adult tries to intimidate another over the internet?
Stan Shannon wrote:
and if you want to find out what league I'm in, I'm in the phone book.
Oh, right, that kind of adult. ;) Thanks for your little story of how some people in your family used to be able to ranch or something. Too bad you didn't carry on in any authentic way. I know how to rope and ride because that's how we did branding on the working ranch I lived on. Please, fill me in on the ways of rural living. Maybe your great-great-grandfather (the last of your rotten seed to live off the land) told a story some time while you were in earshot! :laugh: How many head of cattle on the Shannon ranch? And no, your fat family members don't count! :laugh: Listen, boy, don't try to tell me about rural life from behind your 400 channels of satellite TV and squeaky-clean pickup truck. I have fed cattle in 50 degrees below zero, in order to get food for myself. I told you, son, you are outclassed. By a wine-and-cheese pussy-ass faggot liberal, too! Extra embarassing for you! Not only am I more at home in the streets than you are, I can out-country you too! :laugh: You've never met a poor man who was much of a roper? You want to? I know plenty and they'd love to hear all about how they're full of shit.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Just curious.
Even SUV-driving douchebags get one thing right every once in a while :)
IamChrisMcCall wrote:
Thanks for your little story of how some people in your family used to be able to ranch or something. Too bad you didn't carry on in any authentic way. I know how to rope and ride because that's how we did branding on the working ranch I lived on. Please, fill me in on the ways of rural living. Maybe your great-great-grandfather (the last of your rotten seed to live off the land) told a story some time while you were in earshot! How many head of cattle on the Shannon ranch? And no, your fat family members don't count! Listen, boy, don't try to tell me about rural life from behind your 400 channels of satellite TV and squeaky-clean pickup truck. I have fed cattle in 50 degrees below zero, in order to get food for myself. I told you, son, you are outclassed. By a wine-and-cheese pussy-ass faggot liberal, too! Extra embarassing for you! Not only am I more at home in the streets than you are, I can out-country you too! You've never met a poor man who was much of a roper? You want to? I know plenty and they'd love to hear all about how they're full of sh*t.
Just as I thought. You're the same kind of hypocritical rich kid I grew up around who pretended to be tough because their dad owned a little more farm land then my Dad did. Well, you're right. My dad sold all his horses during the great depression and the dust bowl so he could feed my older siblings. I'm sure that makes you feel better, you being so concerned for the poor and all. And you can introduce me to all the poor folks you know out on your ranch. I'm probably kin to most of them.
Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority.
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IamChrisMcCall wrote:
Thanks for your little story of how some people in your family used to be able to ranch or something. Too bad you didn't carry on in any authentic way. I know how to rope and ride because that's how we did branding on the working ranch I lived on. Please, fill me in on the ways of rural living. Maybe your great-great-grandfather (the last of your rotten seed to live off the land) told a story some time while you were in earshot! How many head of cattle on the Shannon ranch? And no, your fat family members don't count! Listen, boy, don't try to tell me about rural life from behind your 400 channels of satellite TV and squeaky-clean pickup truck. I have fed cattle in 50 degrees below zero, in order to get food for myself. I told you, son, you are outclassed. By a wine-and-cheese pussy-ass faggot liberal, too! Extra embarassing for you! Not only am I more at home in the streets than you are, I can out-country you too! You've never met a poor man who was much of a roper? You want to? I know plenty and they'd love to hear all about how they're full of sh*t.
Just as I thought. You're the same kind of hypocritical rich kid I grew up around who pretended to be tough because their dad owned a little more farm land then my Dad did. Well, you're right. My dad sold all his horses during the great depression and the dust bowl so he could feed my older siblings. I'm sure that makes you feel better, you being so concerned for the poor and all. And you can introduce me to all the poor folks you know out on your ranch. I'm probably kin to most of them.
Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority.
Stan Shannon wrote:
hypocritical rich kid
I highly doubt that. He has bragged about how he makes enormous sums of money as a contractor. In my experience, people who are comfortable with money are generally less excited about it and people who don't have it are more apt to brag that they do. He's a fresh-out-of-college Marxist reminiscing about camp.
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Stan Shannon wrote:
hypocritical rich kid
I highly doubt that. He has bragged about how he makes enormous sums of money as a contractor. In my experience, people who are comfortable with money are generally less excited about it and people who don't have it are more apt to brag that they do. He's a fresh-out-of-college Marxist reminiscing about camp.
Thats actually my read also. I just like egging him own. Next he'll be telling me how he personally saved the ol' ranch house from a stampede or something and than got down with the hood in the streets of New York. What a guy! :laugh: I can tell from the way he talks that he knows sqat about cow county. I don't claim to be much of a farm hand, the truth is I hate farm work, but at least I know the culture and he sure as hell doesn't reflect any of it.
Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority.
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IamChrisMcCall wrote:
My life as an American consists of more than just this forum. The fact that you don't think yours does is more telling than you think.
you'd have to read what I said with your head up your ass to make this statement.
IamChrisMcCall wrote:
Patriot Act, illegal wiretapping, Git'mo, etc.
all legal and constituitional.
IamChrisMcCall wrote:
wanna compare W-4s sometime?
1099 and schedule A, not w-4
IamChrisMcCall wrote:
America is better than ever!
finally you've said something factual.
Mike The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
IamChrisMcCall wrote:
Patriot Act, illegal wiretapping, Git'mo, etc.
all legal and constituitional.
I'm always curious why conservatives consider this a closed issue. It is not, not by a long shot. It goes the other direction, too, that it's not clear it IS a violation of the law. Yet prudence would seem to air on the side of caution, rather than running roughshod over people's rights. Also, if Gitmo is legal.. why not just shoot every one of them and be done with it? Why bother with the farce of a trial to begin with? If they're not uniformed combatants so the Geneva Conventions don't apply, and if they aren't entitled to human rights, why not just shoot them and save ourselves the trouble? I'm really not trying to troll with that question. I really wonder the answer.
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IamChrisMcCall wrote:
Humility and liberalism are both halmarks of Catholic thinking. Of course, you're so out-of-step with Rome you probably forgot.
Liberalism advocates Godless government in lieu of Catholicism (or any other religion). Pope John Paul, before he died, expressed concern that the EU's increasingly liberal government would soon legislate the Vatican out of existence. I hardly think think John Paul considered that to be a "hallmark of Catholic thinking".
IamChrisMcCall wrote:
When Bush walks on civil liberties, it's patriotic. Even when he does it in someone else's country!
What are "civil liberties" to you? Anything that offends the liberal ethic? If so, I certainly hope he takes the time to take a dump while he tramples on them.
Red Stateler wrote:
Liberalism advocates Godless government in lieu of Catholicism (or any other religion).
I have noticed a very concerted effort by the political right in the past 10 years or so to redefine the word that way; I'm not really sure I understand why. It seems to make more sense to choose your own word to describe "adherents to socialist principles" rather than hijack a word that means something very different. The real definition, and the one to which I subscribe, is this one[^]. Namely,
Broadly speaking, Liberalism emphasizes individual rights and equality of opportunity. A liberal society is characterized by freedom of thought for individuals, limitations on power, the rule of law, the free exchange of ideas, a market economy, free private enterprise, and a transparent system of government in which the rights of all citizens are protected.[2] In the 21st century, this usually means liberal democracy with open and fair elections, where all citizens have equal rights by law.
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Red Stateler wrote:
Liberalism advocates Godless government in lieu of Catholicism (or any other religion).
I have noticed a very concerted effort by the political right in the past 10 years or so to redefine the word that way; I'm not really sure I understand why. It seems to make more sense to choose your own word to describe "adherents to socialist principles" rather than hijack a word that means something very different. The real definition, and the one to which I subscribe, is this one[^]. Namely,
Broadly speaking, Liberalism emphasizes individual rights and equality of opportunity. A liberal society is characterized by freedom of thought for individuals, limitations on power, the rule of law, the free exchange of ideas, a market economy, free private enterprise, and a transparent system of government in which the rights of all citizens are protected.[2] In the 21st century, this usually means liberal democracy with open and fair elections, where all citizens have equal rights by law.
That's closer to classical liberalism, which is basically modern conservatism. Mondern liberalism is based in Marxism. There's no point confusing the terms when you know what they mean.
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President Hugo Chavez said Sunday that foreigners who publicly criticize him or
his government while visiting Venezuela will be expelled from the country.Chavez ordered officials to closely monitor statements made by international figures
during their visits to Venezuela — and deport any outspoken critics."How long are we going to allow a person — from any country in the world — to come to
our own house to say there's a dictatorship here, that the president is a tyrant, and
nobody does anything about it?" Chavez asked during his weekly television and radio
program.Yeah...Deporting critics is hardly tyrannical at all!
How is that different from refusing entry to a single pupil out of a French school class because he wears a "Stop Bush" T-Shirt? (Actually, VERY different, I know. Chavez IS a dictator/tyrant, no question about it. I was just trying to say: Whoever makes a decision to refuse someone entry into his country, just because of belief, is an idiot.)
Cheers, Sebastian -- "If it was two men, the non-driver would have challenged the driver to simply crash through the gates. The macho image thing, you know." - Marc Clifton
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Chris-Kaiser wrote:
In response to your own rhetoric that somehow nazis are representative of dissenters. Laughable at best.
I didn't say that (obviously). I said Nazis are one form of dissenters. IAm claimed that dissent in general is what qualifies a good American. So then if we have a good system and bad dissenters, then those dissenters are suddenly qualified as good. I gave him an opportunity to change what he said, but he only reinforced it.
Of course dissent (even from Nazis) is good - it leads to a free & frank exchange of views. Should dissenters which have been qualified as bad be prevented from expressing that dissent - driving their views underground, away from the public scrutiny which would have exposed their 'bad' ideas as such? How could a dissenter's position be assessed to determine its goodness/badness? This seems like an untenable position to hold in a democratic society - suppression of dissent is foolish in the same way as steering a car with your eyes shut is. Chavez is clearly wrong to attempt to suppress criticism of his regime, as is Red Stateler to assert that there is such a thing as good/bad dissent. It is just someone expressing their POV, unless you live under religious extremism you are generally allowed to express your own POV wherever you live - even in the USA. Any democratic regime that can't withstand critique from its participating members is badly broken. (In fact, wasn't the USA formed largely by oppressed minorities seeking somewhere they could express themselves freely?) Ignore the lessons of history at your peril!
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Of course dissent (even from Nazis) is good - it leads to a free & frank exchange of views. Should dissenters which have been qualified as bad be prevented from expressing that dissent - driving their views underground, away from the public scrutiny which would have exposed their 'bad' ideas as such? How could a dissenter's position be assessed to determine its goodness/badness? This seems like an untenable position to hold in a democratic society - suppression of dissent is foolish in the same way as steering a car with your eyes shut is. Chavez is clearly wrong to attempt to suppress criticism of his regime, as is Red Stateler to assert that there is such a thing as good/bad dissent. It is just someone expressing their POV, unless you live under religious extremism you are generally allowed to express your own POV wherever you live - even in the USA. Any democratic regime that can't withstand critique from its participating members is badly broken. (In fact, wasn't the USA formed largely by oppressed minorities seeking somewhere they could express themselves freely?) Ignore the lessons of history at your peril!
Isn't relativism beautiful? :rolleyes: What a load of tripe.
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
IamChrisMcCall wrote:
Patriot Act, illegal wiretapping, Git'mo, etc.
all legal and constituitional.
I'm always curious why conservatives consider this a closed issue. It is not, not by a long shot. It goes the other direction, too, that it's not clear it IS a violation of the law. Yet prudence would seem to air on the side of caution, rather than running roughshod over people's rights. Also, if Gitmo is legal.. why not just shoot every one of them and be done with it? Why bother with the farce of a trial to begin with? If they're not uniformed combatants so the Geneva Conventions don't apply, and if they aren't entitled to human rights, why not just shoot them and save ourselves the trouble? I'm really not trying to troll with that question. I really wonder the answer.
Valid questions, let me take a shot, but it probably won't be a really definitive answer. Regarding the Patriot Act I'm operating on the assumption that setting aside all of the noise raised in protest that if it were unconsituitional it would have been challenged immediately and the Supreme Court would have struck it down. It has been 4 o5 5 years and no real challenge has been offered. I don't offer myself as a constituitional scholar, just operating from what I think is a common sense approach. Regarding GITMO you have a holding facility for combatants captured on a battlefield. Realistically (and I honestly believe this) we could have shot them instead of capturing them and transporting them to GITMO. I don't think capture versus shoot was done for any humane reason but rather it was done on the basis that those captured had information we needed. Chances are, for the most part we now have everything those captured have to offer. I also believe (possibly irrationally) that the information obtained, saved American lives. Now it is a question of what you do with these people. Releasing them while we're still in a shooting war doesn't make sense to me, that is like re-equipping your enemy. The end result is we're caught in an awkward position. We're too moral to simply kill them and releasing them makes no real sense. I personally think the idea of tribunals and or trial is simply a delaying tactic because the idea is to simpy keep them off of a battlefield (or out of a bomb factory) as long as possible. fyi - we did the same thing in WWII. I lived in Dallas for a long time and remeber meeting a one time prisoner of war, a German, who was held in a facility in the Dallas area. He either came back to the states or stayed in the states once he was released. Not necessarily a good set of answers, I just happen to agree with the administration's approach.
Mike The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
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Isn't relativism beautiful? :rolleyes: What a load of tripe.
Red Stateler wrote:
Isn't relativism beautiful? What a load of tripe.
Was this a mis-post, or am I reading it wrong? Seems like a complete non-sequitur - IS relativism beautiful? WHAT is a load of old tripe? It doesn't even seem related to the post I made about the suppression of dissent within democracies. WTF???
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IamChrisMcCall wrote:
Thanks for your little story of how some people in your family used to be able to ranch or something. Too bad you didn't carry on in any authentic way. I know how to rope and ride because that's how we did branding on the working ranch I lived on. Please, fill me in on the ways of rural living. Maybe your great-great-grandfather (the last of your rotten seed to live off the land) told a story some time while you were in earshot! How many head of cattle on the Shannon ranch? And no, your fat family members don't count! Listen, boy, don't try to tell me about rural life from behind your 400 channels of satellite TV and squeaky-clean pickup truck. I have fed cattle in 50 degrees below zero, in order to get food for myself. I told you, son, you are outclassed. By a wine-and-cheese pussy-ass faggot liberal, too! Extra embarassing for you! Not only am I more at home in the streets than you are, I can out-country you too! You've never met a poor man who was much of a roper? You want to? I know plenty and they'd love to hear all about how they're full of sh*t.
Just as I thought. You're the same kind of hypocritical rich kid I grew up around who pretended to be tough because their dad owned a little more farm land then my Dad did. Well, you're right. My dad sold all his horses during the great depression and the dust bowl so he could feed my older siblings. I'm sure that makes you feel better, you being so concerned for the poor and all. And you can introduce me to all the poor folks you know out on your ranch. I'm probably kin to most of them.
Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority.
Stan Shannon wrote:
You're the same kind of hypocritical rich kid I grew up around
Ha, you didn't grow up anywhere near me, I can assure you. I grew up in the ghetto and moved to the country as a teenager. You wouldn't have lasted a second in either environment. I was never a "rich kid". Your pre-conceptions of liberals betray you here. I care for the poor because I was (and am, by conservative standards) poor or working-class. I care for minorities because I grew up with them.
Stan Shannon wrote:
And you can introduce me to all the poor folks you know out on your ranch. I'm probably kin to most of them.
Yeah, OK, whatever.
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Thats actually my read also. I just like egging him own. Next he'll be telling me how he personally saved the ol' ranch house from a stampede or something and than got down with the hood in the streets of New York. What a guy! :laugh: I can tell from the way he talks that he knows sqat about cow county. I don't claim to be much of a farm hand, the truth is I hate farm work, but at least I know the culture and he sure as hell doesn't reflect any of it.
Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority.
Stan Shannon wrote:
he sure as hell doesn't reflect any of it.
Proof positive you are full of shit. I lived on a ranch in northwestern montana. Black Angus and Hereford cattle. 240 head. 14 horses, quarterhorses, mustangs and paint. I can rope from horseback, saddle my own ride, and have birthed calves in freezing cold. I didn't wake up at 4AM every morning, including Christmas, for years to have some fat internet nerd question my authenticity.
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IamChrisMcCall wrote:
Because the Holy See says so! Don't question your government, question your Church? You are everything that's wrongwith the American Catholic Church.
Where did I say I don't question my government. I specifically said all Americans do. I'm criticizing the content of your criticisms, which are faulty.
IamChrisMcCall wrote:
Really, I'm a Socialist? News to me, but I'd like for you to show me which encyclical was more recent, the one about Socialism or the one about the Death Penalty. Which does the Church hate more, murder or Socialism?
I'm not going to hide my opinions behind the Catholic Church. I'm not a huge advocate for or against the death penalty. I think it's a political decision vested with the people, and I have no problem either way. But since the Pope actively fought communists, but didn't make a huge deal about America's death penalty, I'd suspect it despises socialism more.
IamChrisMcCall wrote:
I don't, but I can hazard a pretty good guess at how He likes prisoners to be treated, and I doubt He's real into torture. What do you think? Do you think He'll listen to the subtleties about stress positions and waterboarding? God's never really been a "letter of the law" kinda guy. He's more about the spirit of things. Good luck, though, let me know how it all goes
Bush tortured people? Really?
IamChrisMcCall wrote:
You're the one calling social programs "charity". All I want is to make sure no one starves in the street over your bullsh*t ideals. However, I'm sure you give so much to charity that I shouldn't be worried.
FYI, temperance is a cardinal virtue according to the Church. Did you decide to leave that off your tray this week? But yes, socialism is most definately a substitute for charity as it feeds the hungry and clothes the poor. I thought that's what Christian charity did. Hmmmmm...Well I guess the state should do that.
IamChrisMcCall wrote:
You still haven't explained how I want the government to say Mass. Care to explain that?
That's the point. Socialism strives to displace (do you know what that word means?) religion. It therefore has no need to conduct mass of any sort. And that is why it is so despised by the Catholic Church.
Red Stateler wrote:
I'm not a huge advocate for or against the death penalty.
Way to be a cafeteria Catholic.
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Stan Shannon wrote:
he sure as hell doesn't reflect any of it.
Proof positive you are full of shit. I lived on a ranch in northwestern montana. Black Angus and Hereford cattle. 240 head. 14 horses, quarterhorses, mustangs and paint. I can rope from horseback, saddle my own ride, and have birthed calves in freezing cold. I didn't wake up at 4AM every morning, including Christmas, for years to have some fat internet nerd question my authenticity.
IamChrisMcCall wrote:
I lived on a ranch in northwestern montana.
Who owned it and how did they mark their livestock?
Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority.
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Stan Shannon wrote:
You're the same kind of hypocritical rich kid I grew up around
Ha, you didn't grow up anywhere near me, I can assure you. I grew up in the ghetto and moved to the country as a teenager. You wouldn't have lasted a second in either environment. I was never a "rich kid". Your pre-conceptions of liberals betray you here. I care for the poor because I was (and am, by conservative standards) poor or working-class. I care for minorities because I grew up with them.
Stan Shannon wrote:
And you can introduce me to all the poor folks you know out on your ranch. I'm probably kin to most of them.
Yeah, OK, whatever.
IamChrisMcCall wrote:
I care for the poor because I was (and am, by conservative standards) poor or working-class.
Well, welcome to the club, punk. I really don't give a good goddamned what your background is. But I have met a million struting fools just like you in my life, so I would assume that even you have enough intelligence to understand that nothing you say is likely to be believed by anyone. The real irony of your inane rambling is that the industry you are so proud to have been part of is the most heavily subsidized in the entire nation. Whatever rancher you supposedly worked for probably did get more money from the government than he paid in taxes. I've been on several working ranches (generally roofing their huge new houses in 120 degree heat) and I've never seen one of those guys on horseback. They waddle out of the huge tax payer subsidized pickups, complaining about the heat (or the cold) on their way to their huge heated/airconditioned, tax subsidized tractor/combine/loader. I spent the first 40 years of my life living and working in the west and the only places that even remotely fit what you are describing are dude ranches or camps for troubled children. Which were you? And frankly, I don't think you know the first fucking thing about real poverty. If even a tad of the real culture of the west had attached itself to you, you would know that westerners prize rugged individualism above all else. And that ain't something you are going to get from socialism. So, sorry, but there is simply something about what you are claiming that just does not add up.
Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority.
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IamChrisMcCall wrote:
I care for the poor because I was (and am, by conservative standards) poor or working-class.
Well, welcome to the club, punk. I really don't give a good goddamned what your background is. But I have met a million struting fools just like you in my life, so I would assume that even you have enough intelligence to understand that nothing you say is likely to be believed by anyone. The real irony of your inane rambling is that the industry you are so proud to have been part of is the most heavily subsidized in the entire nation. Whatever rancher you supposedly worked for probably did get more money from the government than he paid in taxes. I've been on several working ranches (generally roofing their huge new houses in 120 degree heat) and I've never seen one of those guys on horseback. They waddle out of the huge tax payer subsidized pickups, complaining about the heat (or the cold) on their way to their huge heated/airconditioned, tax subsidized tractor/combine/loader. I spent the first 40 years of my life living and working in the west and the only places that even remotely fit what you are describing are dude ranches or camps for troubled children. Which were you? And frankly, I don't think you know the first fucking thing about real poverty. If even a tad of the real culture of the west had attached itself to you, you would know that westerners prize rugged individualism above all else. And that ain't something you are going to get from socialism. So, sorry, but there is simply something about what you are claiming that just does not add up.
Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority.
Stan Shannon wrote:
I really don't give a good goddamned what your background is.
Oh all of a sudden, now you don't. You spew hundreds of words trying to discredit me, and when you find out (to your embarassment) that I am more authenticly rural than you are, you suddenly don't care! Magic!
Stan Shannon wrote:
Whatever rancher you supposedly worked for
Yeah, "supposedly", but you still don't care about my background, huh? Then you go on to defame small agribusiness for being subsidised? I thought you came from a long line of Okie white trash that scratched a miserable living out of the red dirt your former home calls "scenery". Now you're trying to shit on small ranches for taking handouts? Do you care about me or not care? Are you "salt of the Earth" or just another welfare recipient? I guess it varies from post to post, sentence to sentence!
Stan Shannon wrote:
I've been on several working ranches (generally roofing their huge new houses in 120 degree heat) and I've never seen one of those guys on horseback.
Dude, the list of things you've never seen could fill a hundred Bibles. Why would I care what you haven't seen? That's the whole point, that you've sheltered yourself from reality so much that you can't comprehend someone like me: equally at home in the inner city or on Forest Service land. :)
Stan Shannon wrote:
And frankly, I don't think you know the first f****ing thing about real poverty.
There you go again, guessing at things you don't know about. I am not going to sit here and embarass you for being wrong again, only to have you come back and say you don't care in the first place. Just take my word for it: I know poverty.
Stan Shannon wrote:
So, sorry, but there is simply something about what you are claiming that just does not add up.
Listen, seriously, just stop. You've never been anywhere, you've never done anything. You're not going to win this. You've developed your narrow views because of your lack of life experience. I'm sure there's things you know more about than I do. Life is just not one of them.
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IamChrisMcCall wrote:
I lived on a ranch in northwestern montana.
Who owned it and how did they mark their livestock?
Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority.
Give me a break, like I'm going to give you names and brands over the internet? What's your boss' phone number so I can verify your employment? :laugh: It was a shoulder brand, and I applied it hundreds of times. The ranch in question was near Lake Kalispell on the Salish-Kootenai Indian Reservation.