Developers and the Salary Negotiation
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I remember this job "interview" I went to once. I was a consultant with a solid track record at this company, and some manager newly hired decided he would try and push my buttons, so he starts off with a lengthy monologue on not being sure how I fit in with the new project, so on and so forth. This was after having developed a fullblown prototype to simulate satellite Internet communications, including things like rain fade, QoS, etc., and the guy couldn't figure out how I could fit in. So he asks me to put together a proposal of what I could do. Well, I'd already had a few conversations with the jerk on the phone and was psychologically prepared to deliver the following line: "you know, if you can't figure out what I can do for you given the last year of work that I've done, then frankly I'm more than happy to not waste your time or my time trying to come up with some work. You're the manager, it's your job to use the resources you have the best way you can. If you need a few weeks or a few months to think about it, that's fine with me, but just realize that I may not be available then because I'll have taken another job." He had a multi-page task list for me by the end of my visit. The moral of the story: Believe in yourself and that you are valuable and be prepared to walk away if you don't get what you want or you feel like you're being asked to prove yourself, when your resume, references, and track record already do prove yourself. Marc
Marc Clifton wrote:
The moral of the story: Believe in yourself and that you are valuable and be prepared to walk away if you don't get what you want or you feel like you're being asked to prove yourself, when your resume, references, and track record already do prove yourself.
Very true indeed...
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I had a conversation with a friend of mine recently. I found it to be very interesting so I thought I'd summarize it here. I'm curious to see what your opinions are on this topic. Please keep in mind that I'll be writing in generalities here, not absolutes. Many software developers are introverted, shy, and non-confrontational. For the most part that does not matter since they are not trying to sell things to customers, make public announcements, or arrest thugs. They sit in front of a computer for most of the day. However, that attribute of their personality is disasterous for them during a very crucial, and short-lived, part of their career: the salary negotiation. An interview can be warm, friendly, jovial, etc. But a salary negotiation is always business. Business is aggressive. When companies start talking to you about how much money they are willing to pay you, they are no longer your friends. They are no longer warm, friendly or jovial. Based on that observation, here are some tips for devs (particularly the introverted among us) to keep in mind during a salary negotiation: 1) If you have no or little experience as a professional developer, don't expect too much. Suck it up and pay your dues. If you can get a lot, great...but you don't deserve it and they'll figure that out quick. 2) If you have the skills the employer needs, keep in mind that they probably need you more than you need them. Especially when the job market is in our favor. Never let them convince you that there are dozens of people applying for the same job. If that's the case, the person who will get the job is probably friends with someone else in the company anyways (that's how these things work, btw). 3) If they ask you how much you're looking for, in terms of salary, deflect the question back to them. Never answer first. Say something like, "Considering that my skillset matches what you're looking for I expect to be offered market rate. What did you have in mind?" The key here is the term "market rate." That's something that business folks understand. Make sure you know what you're worth, according to the local job market, before you go to the interview. 4) Don't immediately accept a job, unless you're desparate for cash or the offer is so amazingly good that you don't want to lose it (that's a very rare thing). If you take the job right away, you have no bargaining power to ask for more money the next day. 5) If you already have a job but it sucks; never, ever, let the new company know
Josh Smith wrote:
I expect to be offered market rate.
To me, I would never use that term when dealing with a company if you consider your work above the lower percentage of developers as it instantly implies you are willing to take (or at least expecting) the lowest possible salary they can get away with for your skill set. If you do quality work, have great work ethics and the skills to match, you are above the norm and it would probably be better to make it clear your expect more than the norm. Of course, if a person's quality or skill set is not any better than the lower tier of developer, then they would be expecting whatever the going rate happens to be.
Rocky <>< Latest Code Blog Post: www.TheWPFDirectory.com site launched! Latest Tech Blog Post: Vista ReadyBoost!
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Josh Smith wrote:
I expect to be offered market rate.
To me, I would never use that term when dealing with a company if you consider your work above the lower percentage of developers as it instantly implies you are willing to take (or at least expecting) the lowest possible salary they can get away with for your skill set. If you do quality work, have great work ethics and the skills to match, you are above the norm and it would probably be better to make it clear your expect more than the norm. Of course, if a person's quality or skill set is not any better than the lower tier of developer, then they would be expecting whatever the going rate happens to be.
Rocky <>< Latest Code Blog Post: www.TheWPFDirectory.com site launched! Latest Tech Blog Post: Vista ReadyBoost!
Rocky Moore wrote:
To me, I would never use that term when dealing with a company if you consider your work above the lower percentage of developers as it instantly implies you are willing to take (or at least expecting) the lowest possible salary they can get away with for your skill set.
That's true. But I wrote that "I expect to be offered market rate." That's different from "I expect to make market rate." I suppose I should have clarified this, but the idea behind my statement is that the negotiator then must offer market rate. At that point you can counter with a rate well above market, if you feel you're worth it.
:josh: My WPF Blog[^] Without a strive for perfection I would be terribly bored.
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justinjones wrote:
the head hunters
species classification: Shark Lawyer Lamprey HeadHunter Leech Mosquito
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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I had a conversation with a friend of mine recently. I found it to be very interesting so I thought I'd summarize it here. I'm curious to see what your opinions are on this topic. Please keep in mind that I'll be writing in generalities here, not absolutes. Many software developers are introverted, shy, and non-confrontational. For the most part that does not matter since they are not trying to sell things to customers, make public announcements, or arrest thugs. They sit in front of a computer for most of the day. However, that attribute of their personality is disasterous for them during a very crucial, and short-lived, part of their career: the salary negotiation. An interview can be warm, friendly, jovial, etc. But a salary negotiation is always business. Business is aggressive. When companies start talking to you about how much money they are willing to pay you, they are no longer your friends. They are no longer warm, friendly or jovial. Based on that observation, here are some tips for devs (particularly the introverted among us) to keep in mind during a salary negotiation: 1) If you have no or little experience as a professional developer, don't expect too much. Suck it up and pay your dues. If you can get a lot, great...but you don't deserve it and they'll figure that out quick. 2) If you have the skills the employer needs, keep in mind that they probably need you more than you need them. Especially when the job market is in our favor. Never let them convince you that there are dozens of people applying for the same job. If that's the case, the person who will get the job is probably friends with someone else in the company anyways (that's how these things work, btw). 3) If they ask you how much you're looking for, in terms of salary, deflect the question back to them. Never answer first. Say something like, "Considering that my skillset matches what you're looking for I expect to be offered market rate. What did you have in mind?" The key here is the term "market rate." That's something that business folks understand. Make sure you know what you're worth, according to the local job market, before you go to the interview. 4) Don't immediately accept a job, unless you're desparate for cash or the offer is so amazingly good that you don't want to lose it (that's a very rare thing). If you take the job right away, you have no bargaining power to ask for more money the next day. 5) If you already have a job but it sucks; never, ever, let the new company know