More proof of God
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Who could argue with this? http://www.raptureready.com/health/11.html[^] From the site: In most cases, the rejection of the Creator does not result from logical conclusions. The average atheist, if he or she is honest, will cite an emotional motivation for lack of faith in God. The late Isaac Asimov once wrote: “Emotionally I am an atheist. I don’t have the evidence to prove that God doesn’t exist, but I so strongly suspect that he doesn’t that I don’t want to waste my time.” Now that Mr. Asimov is dead, I suspect he wishes he would have invested time into proving the existence of God. Most people who do not think God exists betray their stance by arguing with Him. If God is not real, there is no need to be hostile toward Him or toward anyone who believes in Him.
On the weekend I was in Melbourne with my wife ( married 14 years ), and I saw a magazine cover which said 'Jessica Alba - proof that God exists'
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
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Gary Kirkham wrote:
No one is guaranteed tomorrow and it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment.
Zzzzzzzzzzz. More like just the long dirt nap.
Mongkut to a Christian missionary friend: "What you teach us to do is admirable, but what you teach us to believe is foolish".
It's gotta suck for the believers to realize, when they exhale their last breath, that there is nothing afterwards. I wish I could tell each and everyone of them "I told you so!" :)
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Religion aside, I still can't get my head around the argument that someone arguing against the existence of X is, in fact, providing evidence for the existence of X.
Peter "Until the invention of the computer, the machine gun was the device that enabled humans to make the most mistakes in the smallest amount of time."
Uh. You need to take a Logic 101 course.
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It's just bull*** to say we are right in what we think and by arguing with us are tacitly admitting that we are right, otherwise you wouldn't bother. of course if you remain silent you are also tacitly admitting that you agree with them as if you didn't you would obviously argue with them. In plain english its called arrogance.
pseudonym67 My Articles[^] Beginning KDevelop Programming[^]
pseudonym67 wrote:
In plain english its called arrogance.
I'd go so far as to call it stupidity. :)
-- Raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
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Who could argue with this? http://www.raptureready.com/health/11.html[^] From the site: In most cases, the rejection of the Creator does not result from logical conclusions. The average atheist, if he or she is honest, will cite an emotional motivation for lack of faith in God. The late Isaac Asimov once wrote: “Emotionally I am an atheist. I don’t have the evidence to prove that God doesn’t exist, but I so strongly suspect that he doesn’t that I don’t want to waste my time.” Now that Mr. Asimov is dead, I suspect he wishes he would have invested time into proving the existence of God. Most people who do not think God exists betray their stance by arguing with Him. If God is not real, there is no need to be hostile toward Him or toward anyone who believes in Him.
Whether God exists is between me and my theoretical god. Why we inflict our belief on others is for no other reason than power, greed, and control. If people who have the same belief want to get together and create a religion, then fine, but evangelizing that religion to others is as bad as screaming "Developers! Developers! Developers!" on stage. It's all brainwashing. Marc
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Whether God exists is between me and my theoretical god. Why we inflict our belief on others is for no other reason than power, greed, and control. If people who have the same belief want to get together and create a religion, then fine, but evangelizing that religion to others is as bad as screaming "Developers! Developers! Developers!" on stage. It's all brainwashing. Marc
That's just patently untrue. Sure, religion is often used to create power and control people, but, right or wrong, when a person knocks on your door to tell you what they believe, it's surely possible that they believe they have found something that they believe has altered their life for the better, and that they'd like to share it ? I mean, why is the religion the one place where it's unacceptable to know about something good, and want to tell people about it ?
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
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That's just patently untrue. Sure, religion is often used to create power and control people, but, right or wrong, when a person knocks on your door to tell you what they believe, it's surely possible that they believe they have found something that they believe has altered their life for the better, and that they'd like to share it ? I mean, why is the religion the one place where it's unacceptable to know about something good, and want to tell people about it ?
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
Christian Graus wrote:
I mean, why is the religion the one place where it's unacceptable to know about something good, and want to tell people about it ?
Because the tennet of my religion is that those who wish to seek should be welcome, rather going out and "harvesting". ;P And, btw, where does this "to know about something good" come from? That's an interesting assumption. Knowing spiritual truth does not necessarily fall into the "good" category. I tend to have the "oh shit, I'm doomed" reaction. Marc
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Christian Graus wrote:
I mean, why is the religion the one place where it's unacceptable to know about something good, and want to tell people about it ?
Because the tennet of my religion is that those who wish to seek should be welcome, rather going out and "harvesting". ;P And, btw, where does this "to know about something good" come from? That's an interesting assumption. Knowing spiritual truth does not necessarily fall into the "good" category. I tend to have the "oh shit, I'm doomed" reaction. Marc
Marc Clifton wrote:
those who wish to seek should be welcome
Do you mean 'seek and ye shall find' ?
Marc Clifton wrote:
rather going out and "harvesting
As in 'the fields are white for harvest' ?
Marc Clifton wrote:
That's an interesting assumption.
I see you're toying with me, but obviously pretty much any religion preaches that what they believe is worth knowing, and yields a positive result for the believer. I'm obviously a Christian ( that is, I've made that clear before ), but my comments in this instance are not meant to reflect that, just a general observation of the nature of religion itself, and the possible motives someone could have for telling you about theirs.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
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That's just patently untrue. Sure, religion is often used to create power and control people, but, right or wrong, when a person knocks on your door to tell you what they believe, it's surely possible that they believe they have found something that they believe has altered their life for the better, and that they'd like to share it ? I mean, why is the religion the one place where it's unacceptable to know about something good, and want to tell people about it ?
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
Christian Graus wrote:
That's just patently untrue. Sure, religion is often used to create power and control people, but, right or wrong, when a person knocks on your door to tell you what they believe, it's surely possible that they believe they have found something that they believe has altered their life for the better, and that they'd like to share it ? I mean, why is the religion the one place where it's unacceptable to know about something good, and want to tell people about it ?
I agree with you. Trying to convince others of your beliefs, when you have found them helful, is perfectly natural. More generally, discussions and debates about religion, human origins, ethics and all the rest of it are a normal expression of our humanity; life would be much poorer without them. People who want to live in a bubble, sealed off from hearing any opinions they might not agree with, have a real problem.
John Carson
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Marc Clifton wrote:
those who wish to seek should be welcome
Do you mean 'seek and ye shall find' ?
Marc Clifton wrote:
rather going out and "harvesting
As in 'the fields are white for harvest' ?
Marc Clifton wrote:
That's an interesting assumption.
I see you're toying with me, but obviously pretty much any religion preaches that what they believe is worth knowing, and yields a positive result for the believer. I'm obviously a Christian ( that is, I've made that clear before ), but my comments in this instance are not meant to reflect that, just a general observation of the nature of religion itself, and the possible motives someone could have for telling you about theirs.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
Christian Graus wrote:
see you're toying with me,
Damn. You're "on" today. :)
Christian Graus wrote:
but obviously pretty much any religion preaches that what they believe is worth knowing, and yields a positive result for the believer.
And no, I'm not really toying with you, but I am being a bit "casual". The point though is that with knowledge comes responsibility. One may very well argue that ignorance is bliss, and that certain spiritual knowledge can actually be detrimental without the proper strength of character. Hence many of the "secret societies" in the late 1800's, which only revealed esoteric knowledge after sufficient training and demonstration of character. Another angle is that we're all on our own spiritual paths. Imagine taking a VB programmer and showing them C++ or, heaven forbid, assembly language. It really wouldn't do the VB programmer any good to be introduced to that stuff until they were spiritually ready for it, metaphorically speaking.
Christian Graus wrote:
just a general observation of the nature of religion itself
I agree, what you said is the nature of religion as man has created it. It is not, IMO, the nature of "true" religion. A person from a "true" religion does not evangelize, but rather demonstrates his character by his deeds, which then draws people to ask about his convictions. And no, I'm not pulling your leg. I do truly believe that. Marc
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Christian Graus wrote:
see you're toying with me,
Damn. You're "on" today. :)
Christian Graus wrote:
but obviously pretty much any religion preaches that what they believe is worth knowing, and yields a positive result for the believer.
And no, I'm not really toying with you, but I am being a bit "casual". The point though is that with knowledge comes responsibility. One may very well argue that ignorance is bliss, and that certain spiritual knowledge can actually be detrimental without the proper strength of character. Hence many of the "secret societies" in the late 1800's, which only revealed esoteric knowledge after sufficient training and demonstration of character. Another angle is that we're all on our own spiritual paths. Imagine taking a VB programmer and showing them C++ or, heaven forbid, assembly language. It really wouldn't do the VB programmer any good to be introduced to that stuff until they were spiritually ready for it, metaphorically speaking.
Christian Graus wrote:
just a general observation of the nature of religion itself
I agree, what you said is the nature of religion as man has created it. It is not, IMO, the nature of "true" religion. A person from a "true" religion does not evangelize, but rather demonstrates his character by his deeds, which then draws people to ask about his convictions. And no, I'm not pulling your leg. I do truly believe that. Marc
Marc Clifton wrote:
A person from a "true" religion does not evangelize, but rather demonstrates his character by his deeds, which then draws people to ask about his convictions.
OK - I would say that someone who doesn't 'live' their belief has no credibility when they tell people about it, but I also believe that playing some game of trying to create reasons and situations for people to approach you about your religion is kind of silly. I mean, I don't believe for a second that being a Christian gives me any guarentee that I am capable of being a better person than any non-Christian on earth. So, how can my behaviour be expected to prove my beliefs ? All it can really do, is disprove it. That is to say, if I behave in a certain way, it could belie my claim to Christianity. No behaviour that I can think of, that doesn't involve directly saying I am a Christian, or discussing it in some way, or attending a 'Christian' gathering such as a church, can show I am a Christian, to the casual onlooker.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
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That's just patently untrue. Sure, religion is often used to create power and control people, but, right or wrong, when a person knocks on your door to tell you what they believe, it's surely possible that they believe they have found something that they believe has altered their life for the better, and that they'd like to share it ? I mean, why is the religion the one place where it's unacceptable to know about something good, and want to tell people about it ?
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
Christian Graus wrote:
Sure, religion is often used to create power and control people, but, right or wrong, when a person knocks on your door to tell you what they believe, it's surely possible that they believe they have found something that they believe has altered their life for the better, and that they'd like to share it ?
Absolutely. The problem arises when people start fighting about who's right and who's wrong and throwing epithets about which side is less human than the other in an attempt to dehumanize the opposition. That isn't a characteristic of religion so much as it is a characteristic of our culture itself; you don't see many of the remaining extant human cultures attempting to conquer and assimilate the cultures around them. There's a difference between believing your beliefs are right, and using weapons (or in this day and age, legal force) to force others to agree with you. And this doesn't just apply to religion - it applies to any ideology. Atheists are equally guilty of this use of force, as are any number of other ideologies not religious in nature (e.g., special interest groups). We've become obsessed with forcing others to agree with us.
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It's gotta suck for the believers to realize, when they exhale their last breath, that there is nothing afterwards. I wish I could tell each and everyone of them "I told you so!" :)
-- Raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
Joergen Sigvardsson wrote:
I wish I could tell each and everyone of them "I told you so!"
I'm sure most of the believers out there would like to tell you people the same except it will be on different circumstances. Live and let live, just shut up and do what you want to do. Stop acting like you are superior because you are superior to nobody.
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It's gotta suck for the believers to realize, when they exhale their last breath, that there is nothing afterwards. I wish I could tell each and everyone of them "I told you so!" :)
-- Raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
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Joergen Sigvardsson wrote:
I wish I could tell each and everyone of them "I told you so!"
I'm sure most of the believers out there would like to tell you people the same except it will be on different circumstances. Live and let live, just shut up and do what you want to do. Stop acting like you are superior because you are superior to nobody.
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On the weekend I was in Melbourne with my wife ( married 14 years ), and I saw a magazine cover which said 'Jessica Alba - proof that God exists'
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
Christian Graus wrote:
On the weekend I was in Melbourne with my wife ( married 14 years ), and I saw a magazine cover which said 'Jessica Alba - proof that God exists'
So the magazine editor is stupid on two counts? :rolleyes:
Mongkut to a Christian missionary friend: "What you teach us to do is admirable, but what you teach us to believe is foolish".
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That's just patently untrue. Sure, religion is often used to create power and control people, but, right or wrong, when a person knocks on your door to tell you what they believe, it's surely possible that they believe they have found something that they believe has altered their life for the better, and that they'd like to share it ? I mean, why is the religion the one place where it's unacceptable to know about something good, and want to tell people about it ?
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
Christian Graus wrote:
it's surely possible that they believe they have found something that they believe has altered their life for the better, and that they'd like to share it ?
So everything you discover that you think enhances your life, you have to go on a worldwide crusade and try to convert the heathen?
Mongkut to a Christian missionary friend: "What you teach us to do is admirable, but what you teach us to believe is foolish".
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Captain See Sharp wrote:
because you are superior to nobody
Aw, your inferiority complex starting to pinch? :->
Mongkut to a Christian missionary friend: "What you teach us to do is admirable, but what you teach us to believe is foolish".
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Being right is sweet. :-D
Mongkut to a Christian missionary friend: "What you teach us to do is admirable, but what you teach us to believe is foolish".
Not being CSS is also sweet! :-D
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Not being CSS is also sweet! :-D