More proof of God
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Christian Graus wrote:
it's surely possible that they believe they have found something that they believe has altered their life for the better, and that they'd like to share it ?
So everything you discover that you think enhances your life, you have to go on a worldwide crusade and try to convert the heathen?
Mongkut to a Christian missionary friend: "What you teach us to do is admirable, but what you teach us to believe is foolish".
Not at all, but if I find out that a store has good service, or a good price, or a product works well, or a resort is nice to visit, I'd obviously tell my friends, and perhaps if it's really good, even people I don't know.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
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On the weekend I was in Melbourne with my wife ( married 14 years ), and I saw a magazine cover which said 'Jessica Alba - proof that God exists'
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
:laugh: Paris Hilton is also proof God exists. Only a fiddling, meddling, higher-power could have forced nature to create such an abomination.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Shog9 wrote:
And with that, Paul closed his browser, sipped his herbal tea, fixed the flower in his hair, and smiled brightly at the multitude of cute, furry animals flocking around the grassy hillside where he sat coding Ruby on his Mac...
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That's just patently untrue. Sure, religion is often used to create power and control people, but, right or wrong, when a person knocks on your door to tell you what they believe, it's surely possible that they believe they have found something that they believe has altered their life for the better, and that they'd like to share it ? I mean, why is the religion the one place where it's unacceptable to know about something good, and want to tell people about it ?
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
Christian Graus wrote:
I mean, why is the religion the one place where it's unacceptable to know about something good, and want to tell people about it ?
Bit of pay-back for all the years of not being able to criticise religion without being burnt/quartered/hanged etc. Even now I believe there are regions on Earth where saying something bad about religion will get your kid rejected from school or your house burnt down. (I'm not advocating the pay-back. I think we should just all get along and forgive past transgressions, live and let live and all that. Leave me alone if I don't want to hear about God and I'll leave you alone about how a flying spaghetti monster is as probable.)
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Shog9 wrote:
And with that, Paul closed his browser, sipped his herbal tea, fixed the flower in his hair, and smiled brightly at the multitude of cute, furry animals flocking around the grassy hillside where he sat coding Ruby on his Mac...
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That's just patently untrue. Sure, religion is often used to create power and control people, but, right or wrong, when a person knocks on your door to tell you what they believe, it's surely possible that they believe they have found something that they believe has altered their life for the better, and that they'd like to share it ? I mean, why is the religion the one place where it's unacceptable to know about something good, and want to tell people about it ?
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
Christian Graus wrote:
...but, right or wrong, when a person knocks on your door to tell you what they believe, it's surely possible that they believe they have found something that they believe has altered their life for the better, and that they'd like to share it ?
Why can't the religions just leave it up to the individual believer to do just that? Why must they make it a requirement, like with the Mormons? Equally, why can't religions teach the young and then if they choose, they can get Christened (or whatever other religions call it). Why must it be forced on them before they know how to shit straight in a nappy? I understand what you are saying, and as a matter of fact you are one of the few people I don't mind talking about religion with. You believe, have found a church that fits your belief and you don't go pounding it down other peoples throats. Unfortunately too many people believe cause they've had it rammed down their throat since they were born, are scared into continuing the belief and never actually go out and find out any information for themselves. My wife and her parents are catholic believers. None of them have read the bible, pretty much regurgitate whatever they were taught by their parents, church and religious school. Many times they have stated something completely untrue that I can contradict due to the 3 times I have read the bible myself or from stuff I have read here and in books. Too many people are like my wife and her parents, believe cause they were told too, never questioned anything and really have no idea or any ability to stand by their beliefs with any form of consistency or logic. You can, that is very different to many I run into.
Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash 24/04/2004
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Marc Clifton wrote:
those who wish to seek should be welcome
Do you mean 'seek and ye shall find' ?
Marc Clifton wrote:
rather going out and "harvesting
As in 'the fields are white for harvest' ?
Marc Clifton wrote:
That's an interesting assumption.
I see you're toying with me, but obviously pretty much any religion preaches that what they believe is worth knowing, and yields a positive result for the believer. I'm obviously a Christian ( that is, I've made that clear before ), but my comments in this instance are not meant to reflect that, just a general observation of the nature of religion itself, and the possible motives someone could have for telling you about theirs.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
Christian Graus wrote:
Do you mean 'seek and ye shall find' ?
Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash 24/04/2004
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Hmm. CP didn't send me an email that I got a reply. Anyway -
Mike Gaskey wrote:
Atheistic arguments against the existence of a god would seem a waste of time, for an atheist. If a believer throws out an opinion in an attemot to prove God's existence, as did whatshisname above, you should treat it like a meaningless stream of words worthy of being ignored - if you're truly an atheist that is. The point being that you'll never convince whatshisname of the nonexisence and he'll never convince you of the existence, so why bother?
Actually, I agree. That's why you won't find any posts here from me attempting to argue against those who believe. I simply don't see the point. I happen to be an atheist of the 3rd type, the type that is never acknowledged to exist because my type is a massive thorn in the side of those who choose a particular God - because I make no claim that God doesn't exist. Rather, I simply don't hold to any belief in one. I happen to think my position is the only truly rational one (of course, so does anyone else ; nobody would willingly hold what they consider to be an irrational belief) - being that the 10,000 human cultures through all of history have each believed in different Gods, what makes any particular one more real than any other? Any attempt to claim that one god or another is more real simply begs the question. It's not one that can be answered by the human mind. Note I don't say the only reasonable belief - I say the only rational one, that is, the only one based on fundamental logic. This is because I can accept that other humans, being equally capable of making reasonable choices, have chosen to believe in God, and being that I have no rational basis to claim otherwise, I can accept their belief without my own position being inconsistent. Incidentally, so much of the "I hate you, you're wrong" crap comes from people who are incapable of recognizing that their opponent can actually have a reasonable view - that starting position makes any meaningful debate impossible. If you start out assuming that a person's perspective is reasonable, try to discover how they got there, and find along the way that their point of view really is NOT reasonable, then you might have an argument for actually fighting over your disagreement - but very few people actually engage in that intellectual process. It is the height of hubris to claim the existence of non-existence of any God with the purpose of convincing othe
Patrick Sears wrote:
being that the 10,000 human cultures through all of history have each believed in different Gods, what makes any particular one more real than any other?
I hold that each culture is reaching out to the same conceptual being but provide their personal interpretation. I also think that its more interesting that each one of these 10,000 cultures reaches out to a conceptual God. Without any contact with each other they reach a similar conclusion. Do you think any of us would know the correct name and character? I don't. But I find it fascinating that just about every single culture on the face of this planet throughout history has reached the conclusion of something spiritual. Something that is outside of our reality. That's something in and of itself.
This statement was never false.
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Atheist don't have to prove their point. They didn't make the proposition in the first place!
-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
If that were true then they wouldn't need to try all the time. Yet, they do. It seems to be just as important for an Atheist to disprove religion as it is to the Theist to prove religion.
This statement was never false.
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If that were true then they wouldn't need to try all the time. Yet, they do. It seems to be just as important for an Atheist to disprove religion as it is to the Theist to prove religion.
This statement was never false.
It's not to prove anything. It's more like showing people their irrational beliefs are. There is nothing to prove.
-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
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"I am an atheist, out and out. It took me a long time to say it. I've been an atheist for years and years, but somehow I felt it was intellectually unrespectable to say one was an atheist, because it assumed knowledge that one didn't have. Somehow, it was better to say one was a humanist or an agnostic. I finally decided that I'm a creature of emotion as well as of reason. Emotionally, I am an atheist. I don't have the evidence to prove that God doesn't exist, but I so strongly suspect he doesn't that I don't want to waste my time." Free Inquiry (Spring 1982) As one can see, the OP has taken it somewhat out of context, and distorted it's meaning and significance.
Rob Graham wrote:
As one can see, the OP has taken it somewhat out of context, and distorted it's meaning and significance.
WOW, now you know how Christians feel when people take things from the Bible and run them through the "Great Out of Context-Distort it All-Convoluted Quoting Machine". As far as arguing the 'To Theist or not to Theist' it is a waste of time. But for people to have a conversation about the views is something different. I will talked about my beliefs in Christ, the Bible, Elohim, and many other Christian aspects all day, but I will not argue about them. I fell into that trying to prove my side right mentality. The way I look at it now is: if I am right then in the end atheist are going to be in a lot of trouble, if I am wrong then nothing happens to anyone. You can believe me if you want that is all I can say.
God Bless, Jason
God doesn't believe in atheist but He still loves them. -
Christian Graus wrote:
...but, right or wrong, when a person knocks on your door to tell you what they believe, it's surely possible that they believe they have found something that they believe has altered their life for the better, and that they'd like to share it ?
Why can't the religions just leave it up to the individual believer to do just that? Why must they make it a requirement, like with the Mormons? Equally, why can't religions teach the young and then if they choose, they can get Christened (or whatever other religions call it). Why must it be forced on them before they know how to shit straight in a nappy? I understand what you are saying, and as a matter of fact you are one of the few people I don't mind talking about religion with. You believe, have found a church that fits your belief and you don't go pounding it down other peoples throats. Unfortunately too many people believe cause they've had it rammed down their throat since they were born, are scared into continuing the belief and never actually go out and find out any information for themselves. My wife and her parents are catholic believers. None of them have read the bible, pretty much regurgitate whatever they were taught by their parents, church and religious school. Many times they have stated something completely untrue that I can contradict due to the 3 times I have read the bible myself or from stuff I have read here and in books. Too many people are like my wife and her parents, believe cause they were told too, never questioned anything and really have no idea or any ability to stand by their beliefs with any form of consistency or logic. You can, that is very different to many I run into.
Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash 24/04/2004
Michael Martin wrote:
Equally, why can't religions teach the young and then if they choose, they can get Christened (or whatever other religions call it).
My parents grow up far from any Christian beliefs, and did not become Christians until a couple of years before I was born. They raised me in a Christian home. They did the best the could to raise me. Then when I was old enough and out of my parent's house. I went my own way, lived how I wanted to, and believed what I wanted to. I was 'saved' at a young age and after getting out of my parent's house and was free to make my choices, I choice to try to disprove the Bible. As far as the Catholics and the Mormons are concerned, I think they have a religion and it is no where close to Christianity. Religious denominations in Christianity are the leading cause of division of Christianity.
Michael Martin wrote:
3 times I have read the bible myself
How did you like? I always thought it was neat that the Bible was composed by so many different writers, in the different languages of different cultures, in different errs eras of time, that the Bible itself carries the same message (and has never changed) from start to finish.
Michael Martin wrote:
Too many people are like my wife and her parents, believe cause they were told too, never questioned anything and really have no idea or any ability to stand by their beliefs with any form of consistency or logic.
That is true, so many don't have understanding about the Bible because they refuse, or are lazy, to find it out. To me the Word of God is the final word in all things for my life. -- modified at 15:31 Monday 13th August, 2007
God Bless, Jason
God doesn't believe in atheist but He still loves them. -
It's not to prove anything. It's more like showing people their irrational beliefs are. There is nothing to prove.
-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
You are assuming that you are right. Yet, it is just your belief that there is no God. Only a belief, as its unprovable. I'm starting to agree that it is religious in nature if you must convince others that you are right.
This statement was never false.
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You are assuming that you are right. Yet, it is just your belief that there is no God. Only a belief, as its unprovable. I'm starting to agree that it is religious in nature if you must convince others that you are right.
This statement was never false.
I don't have to be right. Now, if I start proclaiming the existence of my favorite pink unicorns, I do have to be right in order to have relevance. Then it is up to me to prove the point - otherwise I should just keep it to myself...
-- Presented in doublevision (where drunk)
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I don't have to be right. Now, if I start proclaiming the existence of my favorite pink unicorns, I do have to be right in order to have relevance. Then it is up to me to prove the point - otherwise I should just keep it to myself...
-- Presented in doublevision (where drunk)
Whenever you attempt to convince another of something you have to be right. Else it isn't valid. I agree with keeping it to yourself. I wish both Theists and Atheists would keep it to themselves. But neither can.
This statement was never false.