Irresponsability

Brady Kelly

Red Stateler wrote:

Arguably Iraq is "worse", but primarily because the shackles of an oppresive dictatorship were removed.

Brady Kelly

Red Stateler wrote:

China is a different matter altogether. The West has decided (wisely or not) to battle its communism with capitalism rather than war. Whether or not that will work remains to be seen.

And the effects of that war are begining to be seen, with accusations of inferior quality merchandise flying between the US and China. At least the US has it half won, China is fighting on capitalist terms.

GrinderDev

If we would just invade Canada, Mexico, and Venezuela the USA would have plenty of resources and we can tell the rest of the liberal world to pound sand.

Chris Kaiser

Red Stateler wrote:

Is it your opinion that a dictator responsible for killing hundreds of thousands of his own people (if not millions) is preferable?

Than an additional million that have died as a result of our invasion? Good question. We killed a million to save hundreds of thousands.

This statement was never false.

Red Stateler

Brady Kelly wrote:

Maybe the same applies to all the world the problems you attribute to the rise of atheism. The shackles of an oppressive dictatorship are being removed, and for a while people will experience trouble getting used to their new-found freedom.

America's shackles were removed over 200 years ago. Liberalism is slowly reapplying them.

KaRl

:doh:

Capitalism is the exploitation of man by man. Syndicalism is the opposite. Fold with us! ¤ flickr

Brady Kelly

I somewhat tongue-in-cheek meant the shackles of organised religion on the whole world, not just America. At national level our shackles were removed in 1994. I italicise our because before then my white skin meant very few shackles except for Christian National Education[^], but I was already educated by 1994.

eggsovereasy

Stunning

led mike

More (D)espeir Logic Prism nonsense. Bush's statement was directed at "the Middle east". You cannot argue the point by limiting the conversation to Iraq.

VonHagNDaz

ive found a few grocery stores around my town that sell only local foods, either from the county, or the state. ive head that local produce is better for people with allegries.

[Insert Witty Sig Here]

Lost User

Red Stateler wrote:

Is it your opinion that a dictator responsible for killing hundreds of thousands of his own people (if not millions) is preferable?

Do you care about Iraqi lives?

Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception

Red Stateler

fat_boy wrote:

Do you care about Iraqi lives?

I think a nuke would have been more convenient.

Jorgen Sigvardsson

The need of the many outweighs the need of the few. Or was it the other way around? I forget...

-- Broadcast simultaneously one year in the future

KaRl

"Kill 'em all, God will sort them out", like in the good ol' time, hmm?

brianwelsch

And we all know, the best thing to do with spilled wine is to let it soak into the carpet and just leave a stain. It's pointless to argue over the fact that it shouldn't have been spilled in the first place. Instead, figure out the best way to clean it up. -- modified at 15:20 Wednesday 29th August, 2007 [spelling]

BW

Quick to judge, quick to anger, slow to understand.
Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand.
-- Neil Peart

KaRl

Without acknowledging the mistakes of the past, it would be like building a house on quicksand.

brianwelsch

You acknowledge your mistake by fixing it, not by running away from the problem and thinking about what you should have done in the first place.

BW

Quick to judge, quick to anger, slow to understand.
Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand.
-- Neil Peart

KaRl

brianwelsch wrote:

hinking about what you should have done in the first place.

It could be a good idea anyway to avoid to make the same mistake again. Do you really think that the vision of your president over Iran is different than the one he had over Irak?

brianwelsch

I don't discount that we should learn to avoid making the same mistake twice. I'm saying that endlessly debating that lesson shouldn't keep you from trying to fix what is now wrong. In other words, saying we should never have gone into Iraq is a moot point, except when looking at things from an historical perspective. I don't know where the Iran issue is going. I don't think both ignoring Iran and leaving Iraq would make for a good scene.

BW

Quick to judge, quick to anger, slow to understand.
Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand.
-- Neil Peart

Al Beback

brianwelsch wrote:

And we all know, the best thing to do with spilled wine is to let it soak into the carpet and just leave a stain. It's pointless to argue over the fact that it shouldn't have been spilled in the first place. Instead, figure out the best way to clean it up.

Nice analogy, but it doesn't hold water wine. ;P There are three possibilities when it comes to Iraq: 1. Leave soon. 2. Leave when someone decides that the mess has been cleaned (or that an election is in peril). 3. Never leave. Examine the pros and cons of each possibility and tell me what's best for: 1. Saving American lives. 2. Preventing Americans from being severely wounded (eg, brain disorders, lost limbs). 3. Stopping the suicide bombings occurring almost daily, due to our presense. 4. Removing the negative image the world has of us as occupiers. 5. Removing the view that we're in the region to protect Iraq's oil for the benefit of American oil companies. 6. Pushing the Iraqi government to devote less time to taking vacations and more to uniting and organizing their security forces. 7. Putting a stop to our $3 BILLION/week bill. I don't know about you, but to me this stain on the carpet isn't worth scrubbing that much. We changed their regime -- that we did. The rest we should leave up to the Iraqis. There's a chance our departure will actually curtail the violence and bring peace to the region much more quickly. If not, it's their problem. We shouldn't have to waste American lives and resources on people who don't value peace and freedom.

Man is a marvelous curiosity ... he thinks he is the Creator's pet ... he even believes the Creator loves him; has a passion for him; sits up nights to admire him; yes and watch over him and keep him out of trouble. He prays to him and thinks He listens. Isn't it a quaint idea. - Mark Twain