MSDN - to renew or not, that is the question
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It's that time of year again, MSDN up for renewal. With the renewal price being set at about 1/2 the new price i've got to decide if i want to skip the next 2 or 3yrs or not. I renewed this past yr specifically for the Vista release - that was a bust. Aside from the fact i can't install it on my mirrored OS drive set (nForce Pro MB), the install i do have (Virtual PC image) hasn't impressed me. So, how many others out there have dropped their MSDN sub in the last yr, and how many are planning to renew (if so why, what is coming that you want). I was thinking about VS 2008 but after reading that most of the (usefull) new C++ stuff will likely be pushed to the next version i don't if it will be worth it (i still do C++ almost exclusively). I was also thinking of switching to MSDN Team for Database Pro but don't know if there is enough there to make it worth while - anyone with any experience with it.
...cmk The idea that I can be presented with a problem, set out to logically solve it with the tools at hand, and wind up with a program that could not be legally used because someone else followed the same logical steps some years ago and filed for a patent on it is horrifying. - John Carmack
>> (i still do C++ almost exclusively << I found a recent and depressing discussion by Googling on (( ORCAS INTELLISENSE C++ )) http://blogs.msdn.com/vcblog/archive/2007/07/05/testing-the-intellisense-engine.aspx[^] [[ Wednesday, August 15, 2007 1:50 PM by Joe -- On July 10, you stated that intellisense will not be fixed until "Orcas+1". I am seriously pissed off about this news. I have suffered with the shitty C++ support in VS2005 since it was in beta, and a big reason is the extremely crappy intellisense support. To push this off is to stab your loyal customers in the back while spitting in their faces. It is simply unnacceptable. ]]
pg--az
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It's that time of year again, MSDN up for renewal. With the renewal price being set at about 1/2 the new price i've got to decide if i want to skip the next 2 or 3yrs or not. I renewed this past yr specifically for the Vista release - that was a bust. Aside from the fact i can't install it on my mirrored OS drive set (nForce Pro MB), the install i do have (Virtual PC image) hasn't impressed me. So, how many others out there have dropped their MSDN sub in the last yr, and how many are planning to renew (if so why, what is coming that you want). I was thinking about VS 2008 but after reading that most of the (usefull) new C++ stuff will likely be pushed to the next version i don't if it will be worth it (i still do C++ almost exclusively). I was also thinking of switching to MSDN Team for Database Pro but don't know if there is enough there to make it worth while - anyone with any experience with it.
...cmk The idea that I can be presented with a problem, set out to logically solve it with the tools at hand, and wind up with a program that could not be legally used because someone else followed the same logical steps some years ago and filed for a patent on it is horrifying. - John Carmack
If you are only really intersted in C++, then there is probably no reason to renew. I doubt we will see much advancement in that area for a long time if at all. For them though, all the new technologies that are in alpha, beta or RC, it makes sense along with VS, SQL 2008 and Windows Server 2008. I have not looked into their Team Database version yet, but it did sound interesting a while back. My focus is on hopefully being able to pick up Team Suite over the next year, tired of different parts missing..
Rocky <>< Blog Post: Windows Live Authentication - Easy Stuff! Tech Blog Post: Vista ReadyBoost! Tech Sites: SilverlightCity.com ~ TheSilverlightDirectory.com ~ TheWPFDirectory.com
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It's that time of year again, MSDN up for renewal. With the renewal price being set at about 1/2 the new price i've got to decide if i want to skip the next 2 or 3yrs or not. I renewed this past yr specifically for the Vista release - that was a bust. Aside from the fact i can't install it on my mirrored OS drive set (nForce Pro MB), the install i do have (Virtual PC image) hasn't impressed me. So, how many others out there have dropped their MSDN sub in the last yr, and how many are planning to renew (if so why, what is coming that you want). I was thinking about VS 2008 but after reading that most of the (usefull) new C++ stuff will likely be pushed to the next version i don't if it will be worth it (i still do C++ almost exclusively). I was also thinking of switching to MSDN Team for Database Pro but don't know if there is enough there to make it worth while - anyone with any experience with it.
...cmk The idea that I can be presented with a problem, set out to logically solve it with the tools at hand, and wind up with a program that could not be legally used because someone else followed the same logical steps some years ago and filed for a patent on it is horrifying. - John Carmack
We dropped it last January. There was no good argument to sustain it and the new team stuff is completely useless for a small shop. We used to have the Universal subscription but with no new os's on the horizon for some time and no new office etc it just makes more sense to buy visual studio if and when we need it. And the msdn library is just a waste of money these days.
"I don't want more choice. I just want better things!" - Edina Monsoon
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If you are only really intersted in C++, then there is probably no reason to renew. I doubt we will see much advancement in that area for a long time if at all. For them though, all the new technologies that are in alpha, beta or RC, it makes sense along with VS, SQL 2008 and Windows Server 2008. I have not looked into their Team Database version yet, but it did sound interesting a while back. My focus is on hopefully being able to pick up Team Suite over the next year, tired of different parts missing..
Rocky <>< Blog Post: Windows Live Authentication - Easy Stuff! Tech Blog Post: Vista ReadyBoost! Tech Sites: SilverlightCity.com ~ TheSilverlightDirectory.com ~ TheWPFDirectory.com
I think I'm kinda in your area of what we do and I can't see any compelling argument for the subscription. It's much cheaper to just by what you need as you need it and you don't need sql full blown generally speaking for most projects other than load testing perhaps. Server 2008 can just be bought or bought with a new system when the time comes for a new server etc etc. We added it all up and determined that it's pretty easy to calculate the price difference between a subscription and just buying the products you need at the time you need them and you have to use a *lot* of microsoft products before it makes sense to subscribe. (aside from all the team stuff which I find to be of no use for a small shop and even a medium sized one when you look at all the alternatives out there) I really wish MS would just wise up and basically give away all their development products and focus on selling their end user products instead.
"I don't want more choice. I just want better things!" - Edina Monsoon
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It's that time of year again, MSDN up for renewal. With the renewal price being set at about 1/2 the new price i've got to decide if i want to skip the next 2 or 3yrs or not. I renewed this past yr specifically for the Vista release - that was a bust. Aside from the fact i can't install it on my mirrored OS drive set (nForce Pro MB), the install i do have (Virtual PC image) hasn't impressed me. So, how many others out there have dropped their MSDN sub in the last yr, and how many are planning to renew (if so why, what is coming that you want). I was thinking about VS 2008 but after reading that most of the (usefull) new C++ stuff will likely be pushed to the next version i don't if it will be worth it (i still do C++ almost exclusively). I was also thinking of switching to MSDN Team for Database Pro but don't know if there is enough there to make it worth while - anyone with any experience with it.
...cmk The idea that I can be presented with a problem, set out to logically solve it with the tools at hand, and wind up with a program that could not be legally used because someone else followed the same logical steps some years ago and filed for a patent on it is horrifying. - John Carmack
I dropped mine 1.5 years ago, and do not have any plan to renew anytime soon. I installed the Vista on my workplace machine (Ent edition), but the so-called multilanguage support, which was heavily advertised for the Ent is still not available here (Japan) for download. Initially, I thought the multilanguage stuff was on the DVD, just like the XP. At least for the rest of the year, I do not have any plan to use that Vista installation for anything useful. The current state of the MSDN library is a pity. Best regards, Paul.
Jesus Christ is LOVE! Please tell somebody.
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were you expecting to ?
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
Before the summit, yes. Now, no.
--Mike-- Visual C++ MVP :cool: LINKS~! Ericahist | PimpFish | CP SearchBar v3.0 | C++ Forum FAQ I work for Keyser Söze
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I think you misread him. As read it.... "msdn subscription innovation is in .net space -- you're doing c++ -- so no point in bothering until post orces" Iain.
Correct. :)
Kevin
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Kevin McFarlane wrote:
why you even bothered with an MSDN sub in the first place
MSDN covers more than just VS. SQL Server, Office, MapPoint, OS's, ..., i use them all, but i don't see any new versions on the horizon that would be worth upgrading to yet. My "i still do C++" was about looking at Orcas as a reason to renew only. But i agree in general, most products are (only) advancing in the direction of .Net and web interop. - yet anohter reason to let the sub lapse for a couple years.
...cmk The idea that I can be presented with a problem, set out to logically solve it with the tools at hand, and wind up with a program that could not be legally used because someone else followed the same logical steps some years ago and filed for a patent on it is horrifying. - John Carmack
cmk wrote:
MSDN covers more than just VS. SQL Server, Office, MapPoint, OS's, ..., i use them all
OK, fair enough.
Kevin
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I think I'm kinda in your area of what we do and I can't see any compelling argument for the subscription. It's much cheaper to just by what you need as you need it and you don't need sql full blown generally speaking for most projects other than load testing perhaps. Server 2008 can just be bought or bought with a new system when the time comes for a new server etc etc. We added it all up and determined that it's pretty easy to calculate the price difference between a subscription and just buying the products you need at the time you need them and you have to use a *lot* of microsoft products before it makes sense to subscribe. (aside from all the team stuff which I find to be of no use for a small shop and even a medium sized one when you look at all the alternatives out there) I really wish MS would just wise up and basically give away all their development products and focus on selling their end user products instead.
"I don't want more choice. I just want better things!" - Edina Monsoon
This is true, there are a lot of things in the subscriptions that many developers may not need. Of course, all this depends on just what you have to test all your products on such as the different versions of SQL Server (you might need features that are only available in full versions for those clients who use the full versions). Some may have to have several different platforms to test their products on and maybe even the slight differences to between them. Of course, if you develop products that will be used with the different server products, they can be costly to obtain for testing. I also like making sure I have my hands on the latest betas of new technologies. While $2,200 per year is a bit costly, it is handy to have any tool at your hands when you need it. If a developer is doing even half way decent in their profession, that should not be too hard of bullet to bite. For my own use at this time: VS - SQL Server Management/Profiler - Vista - MS Office - Expression web/blend Test platforms: Windows 2003 - Windows XP - Another copy of Vista - SQL Server I know there are others but they are not coming to mind at the moment. You add those up and you are over the $2,200 tag, but of course once you bought them, they are yours to keep, you do not have to buy them again next year unless a new versions comes out. For shops with a number of developer though, it can make sense to have one or two subscriptions and then purchase develop tools per seat. I wish they would give away their tools also, but I think they just might make a ton of money on them now ;)
Rocky <>< Blog Post: Windows Live Authentication - Easy Stuff! Tech Blog Post: Vista ReadyBoost! Tech Sites: SilverlightCity.com ~ TheSilverlightDirectory.com ~ TheWPFDirectory.com
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This is true, there are a lot of things in the subscriptions that many developers may not need. Of course, all this depends on just what you have to test all your products on such as the different versions of SQL Server (you might need features that are only available in full versions for those clients who use the full versions). Some may have to have several different platforms to test their products on and maybe even the slight differences to between them. Of course, if you develop products that will be used with the different server products, they can be costly to obtain for testing. I also like making sure I have my hands on the latest betas of new technologies. While $2,200 per year is a bit costly, it is handy to have any tool at your hands when you need it. If a developer is doing even half way decent in their profession, that should not be too hard of bullet to bite. For my own use at this time: VS - SQL Server Management/Profiler - Vista - MS Office - Expression web/blend Test platforms: Windows 2003 - Windows XP - Another copy of Vista - SQL Server I know there are others but they are not coming to mind at the moment. You add those up and you are over the $2,200 tag, but of course once you bought them, they are yours to keep, you do not have to buy them again next year unless a new versions comes out. For shops with a number of developer though, it can make sense to have one or two subscriptions and then purchase develop tools per seat. I wish they would give away their tools also, but I think they just might make a ton of money on them now ;)
Rocky <>< Blog Post: Windows Live Authentication - Easy Stuff! Tech Blog Post: Vista ReadyBoost! Tech Sites: SilverlightCity.com ~ TheSilverlightDirectory.com ~ TheWPFDirectory.com
Rocky Moore wrote:
you do not have to buy them again next year unless a new versions comes out
My point exactly, with a subscription you are paying and paying over and over again. I think if you are doing even halfway decent in your profession, particularly as a small shop it's *because* you are spending money wisely. The old msdn was costing us thousands of dollars a year that we put into 3rd party components instead which saved a *lot* of time and development costs which in turn means faster time to market etc etc. A positive cashflow feedback loop. Once you have the basic tools you need the single most important area to spend money on for a small shop is pre-made components. The subscription made more sense a while ago when new products were coming out left right and center at a furious pace but Microsoft isn't releasing significantly new products anywhere near as often as they used to.
Rocky Moore wrote:
I think they just might make a ton of money on them now
I don't think they are actually which is why they are so expensive and getting more expensive all the time, but I could be wrong. I bet they are making a lot more money on the stuff destined for the typical end user, not the developer. Time will tell but I wouldn't be at all surprised if they change their business model towards developers.
"I don't want more choice. I just want better things!" - Edina Monsoon