To self-employed contractors - don't you feel lonely?

Matthew Faithfull

Pete O'Hanlon wrote:

the little people.

Hey, that's the 'managerially challenged people' to you my friend. :laugh:

Nothing is exactly what it seems but everything with seems can be unpicked.

Pete OHanlon

Matthew Faithfull wrote:

Hey, that's the 'managerially challenged people' to you my friend.

I could have gone with my first choices of canon fodder or underlings, but no, you want me to be all touchy feely on this stuff and the judge clearly said I had to stop the touchy feely bits.

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Marc Clifton

Pawel Krakowiak wrote:

Don't you miss being in an office space with colleagues?

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Programming is still easier than debugging relationships and figuring out workarounds to personality differences. Marc

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Pete OHanlon

Marc Clifton wrote:

Programming is still easier than debugging relationships and figuring out workarounds to personality differences

So - you think that relationships are about the same as the ability to divide by zero?

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Marc Clifton

Pete O'Hanlon wrote:

So - you think that relationships are about the same as the ability to divide by zero?

No, I think understanding people is like the square root of -1. You can use the concept (and some people excel at it), but to actually truly understand the concept is impossible. Marc

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Chris Maunder

bryce wrote:

staying at home all the time and its a path to madness

:~

cheers, Chris Maunder

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Pawel Krakowiak

I miss it when somebody tells a joke and everyone laughs. Or going out for lunch. Or having a little discussion with co-workers. Instant messaging is not a viable substitute. All in all I consider self-employment a better choice, but sometimes I would really like to talk to somebody live during work hours - unfortunately those are the longest hours in our life, work takes more time than sleep and often more time than leisure. :/

Kind regards, Pawel Krakowiak Miraculum Software[^]

Vasudevan Deepak Kumar

Pete O'Hanlon wrote:

Colleagues are there to be squashed like a bug.

True. You get to work with full focus and concentration when on your own. The productivity is really high.

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A pessimist sees only the dark side of the clouds, and mopes; a philosopher sees both sides, and shrugs; an optimist doesn't see the clouds at all - he's walking on them. --Leonard Louis Levinson

Pete OHanlon

Pawel Krakowiak wrote:

but sometimes I would really like to talk to somebody live during work hours

Well, you could always try kidnapping but technically they would be more like your victims than colleagues. But the end result is the same.

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Pawel Krakowiak

Do you think kidnapping works for customers, too?

Kind regards, Pawel Krakowiak Miraculum Software[^]

Gary Wheeler

Stockholm syndrome[^]

Software Zen: delete this;

UD

:-D Lonely? Not at all. Telephone, email, conference calls/meetings... all of the normal disruptions are still there however its easier to control those disruptions. No one generally barges into my house and asks me questions when I am deep into development or, worse, debugging. If I go to work at an office, after the 45-60 minute (on good days) commute where people are cutting me off and tailgating me all the way in and then have to fight for parking and then its the walk to the building in what could be rain, wind, heat, snow, etc, by the time I get there I am mentally destroyed. Anything creative is already sucked out of me by 8:30am. Working from home I just get up, shower, walk over to the PC and begin working. I turn off the phone until around lunch time. Its a highly disruptive device. I dont turn on chat, hardly ever - another disruptive thing. I dont generally look at email, it leads to what is usually a chain of events that stops me from being productive. I enjoy the teamwork environment of working in an office but honestly I havent experienced that since the early 1990s. Something changed. Either its US, the people, or its the companies themselves at a higher level. Everyone is out for themselves, disruptions and distractions plague the offices I've been in since the early 1990s and since leaving the commute/job for a self-employed job I feel much more creative and productive than ever. I can work at night, weekends, get up at 4am and work if I want to - whenever. I know what has to be done and when it needs to be done and when left alone I work incredibly well. I decided to go it alone when I finally realized that the company itself doesnt care one bit about me. All they care about is their bottom line. I realized this when I was actually told by a large bank that they'd rather pay 3 people in India what they pay me and would rather me collect unemployment from them because there is an end-point to that unemployment and then their financial responsibility to me is over. The do not care about people who work for them, no matter what they say. I may sound cynical but I've been around the block for quite some time. I have been working, professionally, since before the PC was around. I should have gone on my own a LONG time ago. They'd rather ship buggy products from shoddy designs than do it properly in and organized fashion and its generally because of what the "stockholders" will do. Well, I am invested in me, myself and did I say me? :-) I really dont care about

Pawel Krakowiak

UD wrote:

I certainly wouldnt mind getting several like-minded developers together and even "commuting" to a centralized office with them, but not for any other company than myself. These developers wouldnt have to be working with me or for me or developing the product I am developing - they could be, like me, independent and working for other clients.

An interesting idea. Though it seems like it's not very likely to work... If you don't share the same goal, you're gonna sit there with "strangers" and feel a stranger yourself. I guess I would get annoyed with these people and stop coming to the office. :P It would be very interesting if you could work on the same project, though. They wouldn't be your employees nor bosses, neither you'd be their boss nor employee. Sounds like communism. :doh:

Kind regards, Pawel Krakowiak Miraculum Software[^]

El Corazon

Pete O'Hanlon wrote:

I prefer to surround myself with minions, lackeys and henchmen (sorry henchpeople).

Mr. Alexander Minion: I feel it is time we concentrated on our grand, diabolical plan.

_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)

Hans Dietrich

If you're lonely, get a dog.

Best wishes, Hans

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UD

"If you don't share the same goal, you're gonna sit there with "strangers" and feel a stranger yourself." Nah.. I was more concerned for my bottom-line (and theirs too) in the lease costs of the building. If it costs me $2000/mth to lease 2000 sq/ft and then add high-speed Internet, electricity, water, etc then 10 people in 10 offices with a common area would be a far smaller cost for all of us. Who cares of I shares their specific goals. The general goal is to work and get paid and get more work and get paid and, eventually, retire. Another "goal" to share would be the costs, they can come and go as they please - they are their own boss. We all win. The clients win. We all have offices, doors, its quiet AND there is a common area where we could discuss, share, maybe even exchange work and clients = more business opportunities. Attorney's do this all the time. They arent in any way associated with each other yet they share the same office space and they respect each other's privacy and yet they still maintain a professional environment for their customers. I have seen other professionals do the same: plumbers, doctors, dentists.. Why not software developers? We're professionals and we should be acting more like the plumbers, dentists, attorneys, doctors out there. Ever notice that those people dont usually speak with you for more than 5 minutes without requiring you to come to their office so they can charge you? Never understood why so many programmer give away their hard work. Anyhow, not sure where you get communism from. No one is hording the clients and the work and rationing it out to the developers in the shared office area. Its capitalism at its core. Like I wrote above, you and I (for example) might know of work that our respective clients need and refer one another and generate even more work. Nothing wrong with that. I dont know about anyone else but I am in it to earn money and retire wealthy and relax in my old age. The only way to get there is to work, work hard, care about yourself FIRST and earn money for your work. Maybe those independent contractors out there that are lonely could look into getting a dog. I hear they are great company! :-)

Pawel Krakowiak

UD wrote:

Anyhow, not sure where you get communism from.

I was thinking of a lack of organizational structure - everyone is on the same level and we share. :P Of course communism doesn't work, but the idea is close to this. Don't get it too serious. I still think your idea is interesting, the cost effectiveness probably being the major factor. Unfortunately I don't think freelancing is so popular in my country, but I admit I haven't searched for others like me. You get a 5, anyway. :)

UD wrote:

Maybe those independent contractors out there that are lonely could look into getting a dog. I hear they are great company!

I prefer cats. But they don't talk. And my girlfriend talks too much on the contrary. :laugh: It's not the same, I was talking of speaking to like-minded people (i.e. other developers) at workplace.

Kind regards, Pawel Krakowiak Miraculum Software[^]

Pete OHanlon

:laugh:

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Anna Jayne Metcalfe

I love working at home. Where else can you work on the sofa, and take a three hour lunch break (as I did today - the beach was really peaceful, despite the cold) without making excuses for it? If I need to tie up with people in person I go and see them - it works for me. :) I work best when I have free rein over the hours I work, and that way I don't have to try to squeeze my work into what for me are the least productive hours of the day. If a client wants us on their site (we do both product based work and consultancy) the job always seems to take longer, and we get to waste time both commuting and waiting around for them on site when we could be doing something more productive. In my mind, there is no comparison. The sofa wins every time. :-D

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Pete OHanlon

Pawel Krakowiak wrote:

Do you think kidnapping works for customers, too?

Call it attending a trade show and they'll never know the difference.

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