Article Voting
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I think that when you vote <= 3 for an article you should have to give a reason why your voting this low. These suggestions could then be passed on to the author. I'm sick of people giving me crummy votes but not telling me what they thought was wrong or where it could be better. How can you improve something if people don't tell you whats wrong?
Please check out my articles: The ANZAC's articles
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I think that when you vote <= 3 for an article you should have to give a reason why your voting this low. These suggestions could then be passed on to the author. I'm sick of people giving me crummy votes but not telling me what they thought was wrong or where it could be better. How can you improve something if people don't tell you whats wrong?
Please check out my articles: The ANZAC's articles
I agree it is both wise and polite to tell the author what you liked/disliked about his article, but IMO you can not really force people to do so: - if you provide a text box, they can and often will leave it empty, or enter some nonsense, if they really don't want to justify the vote; - if you replace a single vote scale by several multiple-choice questions (say voting separately on content, form, clarity, inventiveness, etc) you probably will discourage people from voting in the first place. One thing I did suggest in the past is CP to collect voting statistics on the voters, and show those on their personal page, so people voting 1 (or 5) most of the time, would reveal themselves globally. The next step would be to "correct" their vote, i.e. to apply an offset that makes them shift their average to a more reasonnable value. :)
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles]
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I agree it is both wise and polite to tell the author what you liked/disliked about his article, but IMO you can not really force people to do so: - if you provide a text box, they can and often will leave it empty, or enter some nonsense, if they really don't want to justify the vote; - if you replace a single vote scale by several multiple-choice questions (say voting separately on content, form, clarity, inventiveness, etc) you probably will discourage people from voting in the first place. One thing I did suggest in the past is CP to collect voting statistics on the voters, and show those on their personal page, so people voting 1 (or 5) most of the time, would reveal themselves globally. The next step would be to "correct" their vote, i.e. to apply an offset that makes them shift their average to a more reasonnable value. :)
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles]
This month's tips: - before you ask a question here, search CodeProject, then Google; - the quality and detail of your question reflects on the effectiveness of the help you are likely to get; - use PRE tags to preserve formatting when showing multi-line code snippets.
i'm not suggesting a forced suggestion all the time and not a long one either. Just when someone gives you a one or a two its pretty crappy for your overall article score. i posted an article yesterday which i thought was half decent and today i get a 2 for it then i check the comments, nothing! It's so annoying. I think asking people to suggest when they vote 1 or 2 would be reasonable and would probably help to discourage consistent 1 voters who just go round trying to make articles look bad.
Please check out my articles: The ANZAC's articles
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I think that when you vote <= 3 for an article you should have to give a reason why your voting this low. These suggestions could then be passed on to the author. I'm sick of people giving me crummy votes but not telling me what they thought was wrong or where it could be better. How can you improve something if people don't tell you whats wrong?
Please check out my articles: The ANZAC's articles
I agree with you. Badly voting without an apparent reason is really weird. :)
If the Lord God Almighty had consulted me before embarking upon the Creation, I would have recommended something simpler. -- Alfonso the Wise, 13th Century King of Castile.
[my articles] -
i'm not suggesting a forced suggestion all the time and not a long one either. Just when someone gives you a one or a two its pretty crappy for your overall article score. i posted an article yesterday which i thought was half decent and today i get a 2 for it then i check the comments, nothing! It's so annoying. I think asking people to suggest when they vote 1 or 2 would be reasonable and would probably help to discourage consistent 1 voters who just go round trying to make articles look bad.
Please check out my articles: The ANZAC's articles
Maybe the best would be to ignore say the most extereme 20% of the votes, so the average shown would actually be the average of only 80% of the votes. When doing so, as soon as you got six votes, the lone 1 would disappear completetely. :)
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles]
This month's tips: - before you ask a question here, search CodeProject, then Google; - the quality and detail of your question reflects on the effectiveness of the help you are likely to get; - use PRE tags to preserve formatting when showing multi-line code snippets.
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I think that when you vote <= 3 for an article you should have to give a reason why your voting this low. These suggestions could then be passed on to the author. I'm sick of people giving me crummy votes but not telling me what they thought was wrong or where it could be better. How can you improve something if people don't tell you whats wrong?
Please check out my articles: The ANZAC's articles
The ANZAC wrote:
vote <= 3 for an article you should have to give a reason why your voting this low
This has been suggested many times over and over.
The ANZAC wrote:
How can you improve something if people don't tell you whats wrong?
I think that is what the forum at the bottom of the article should be used for. Maybe there could be a way to take the low vote and allow the voter to be forced to leave a message in the forum without revealing who he or she is, since leaving a message doesn't necessarily mean you voted.
"I guess it's what separates the professionals from the drag and drop, girly wirly, namby pamby, wishy washy, can't code for crap types." - Pete O'Hanlon
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Maybe the best would be to ignore say the most extereme 20% of the votes, so the average shown would actually be the average of only 80% of the votes. When doing so, as soon as you got six votes, the lone 1 would disappear completetely. :)
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles]
This month's tips: - before you ask a question here, search CodeProject, then Google; - the quality and detail of your question reflects on the effectiveness of the help you are likely to get; - use PRE tags to preserve formatting when showing multi-line code snippets.
Maybe including a weighted standard deviation of the vote could be added in. If someone has a high weighted standard deviation on their vote, then it could possibly indicate a wide range of votes, or if the weighted standard deviation is small, then the range is smaller and possibly a more true indicator.
"I guess it's what separates the professionals from the drag and drop, girly wirly, namby pamby, wishy washy, can't code for crap types." - Pete O'Hanlon
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Maybe including a weighted standard deviation of the vote could be added in. If someone has a high weighted standard deviation on their vote, then it could possibly indicate a wide range of votes, or if the weighted standard deviation is small, then the range is smaller and possibly a more true indicator.
"I guess it's what separates the professionals from the drag and drop, girly wirly, namby pamby, wishy washy, can't code for crap types." - Pete O'Hanlon
That is nonsense to me. Standard deviation is used to measure the agreement between many people on one issue, and not the agreement of opinions of one person on many different issues. If I were to vote 5 (or 1 as the Univoter seems to do) on every article, then that does not offer any information, hence it has no value; whereas if I vote 1 on half of the articles, and 5 on the other half, I am offering a lot of information, and I am clearly telling I like some and dislike some, so there is then no reason to moderate my votes. :)
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles]
This month's tips: - before you ask a question here, search CodeProject, then Google; - the quality and detail of your question reflects on the effectiveness of the help you are likely to get; - use PRE tags to preserve formatting when showing multi-line code snippets.
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That is nonsense to me. Standard deviation is used to measure the agreement between many people on one issue, and not the agreement of opinions of one person on many different issues. If I were to vote 5 (or 1 as the Univoter seems to do) on every article, then that does not offer any information, hence it has no value; whereas if I vote 1 on half of the articles, and 5 on the other half, I am offering a lot of information, and I am clearly telling I like some and dislike some, so there is then no reason to moderate my votes. :)
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles]
This month's tips: - before you ask a question here, search CodeProject, then Google; - the quality and detail of your question reflects on the effectiveness of the help you are likely to get; - use PRE tags to preserve formatting when showing multi-line code snippets.
Luc Pattyn wrote:
That is nonsense
Not so. I think it would be helpful in casting out the junk votes that the Univoter likes to cast. If you know the standard deviation, then you have an idea of the distribution of the votes.
"I guess it's what separates the professionals from the drag and drop, girly wirly, namby pamby, wishy washy, can't code for crap types." - Pete O'Hanlon
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That is nonsense to me. Standard deviation is used to measure the agreement between many people on one issue, and not the agreement of opinions of one person on many different issues. If I were to vote 5 (or 1 as the Univoter seems to do) on every article, then that does not offer any information, hence it has no value; whereas if I vote 1 on half of the articles, and 5 on the other half, I am offering a lot of information, and I am clearly telling I like some and dislike some, so there is then no reason to moderate my votes. :)
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles]
This month's tips: - before you ask a question here, search CodeProject, then Google; - the quality and detail of your question reflects on the effectiveness of the help you are likely to get; - use PRE tags to preserve formatting when showing multi-line code snippets.
I just got done fiddling around with the idea in Excel, and it's probably best to leave the voting system the way it is :-D
"I guess it's what separates the professionals from the drag and drop, girly wirly, namby pamby, wishy washy, can't code for crap types." - Pete O'Hanlon
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Luc Pattyn wrote:
That is nonsense
Not so. I think it would be helpful in casting out the junk votes that the Univoter likes to cast. If you know the standard deviation, then you have an idea of the distribution of the votes.
"I guess it's what separates the professionals from the drag and drop, girly wirly, namby pamby, wishy washy, can't code for crap types." - Pete O'Hanlon
Paul Conrad wrote:
... if the weighted standard deviation is small, then the range is smaller and possibly a more true indicator. The univoter's deviation is zero, you can't get it any smaller; I am pretty sure his votes don't give a true indication of the articles' values. :)
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles]
This month's tips: - before you ask a question here, search CodeProject, then Google; - the quality and detail of your question reflects on the effectiveness of the help you are likely to get; - use PRE tags to preserve formatting when showing multi-line code snippets.
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Maybe the best would be to ignore say the most extereme 20% of the votes, so the average shown would actually be the average of only 80% of the votes. When doing so, as soon as you got six votes, the lone 1 would disappear completetely. :)
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles]
This month's tips: - before you ask a question here, search CodeProject, then Google; - the quality and detail of your question reflects on the effectiveness of the help you are likely to get; - use PRE tags to preserve formatting when showing multi-line code snippets.
Do you mean something like tossing out the outliers? Throw out one 1 vote and one 5 vote? There is always the possibility of getting a 1 vote or a 5 vote from a person who just doesn't know what they are voting, just some random moron :laugh:
"I guess it's what separates the professionals from the drag and drop, girly wirly, namby pamby, wishy washy, can't code for crap types." - Pete O'Hanlon
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Paul Conrad wrote:
... if the weighted standard deviation is small, then the range is smaller and possibly a more true indicator. The univoter's deviation is zero, you can't get it any smaller; I am pretty sure his votes don't give a true indication of the articles' values. :)
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles]
This month's tips: - before you ask a question here, search CodeProject, then Google; - the quality and detail of your question reflects on the effectiveness of the help you are likely to get; - use PRE tags to preserve formatting when showing multi-line code snippets.
That's true. I was just trying to get some ideas spinning to find a way to get a decent sample of votes that could disregard univotes. Maybe some feature the author can see a breakdown of each vote by the vote and membership level ( no revealing of the actual member being allowed )?
"I guess it's what separates the professionals from the drag and drop, girly wirly, namby pamby, wishy washy, can't code for crap types." - Pete O'Hanlon
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I just got done fiddling around with the idea in Excel, and it's probably best to leave the voting system the way it is :-D
"I guess it's what separates the professionals from the drag and drop, girly wirly, namby pamby, wishy washy, can't code for crap types." - Pete O'Hanlon
eliminating the extremes (known as "modified Bucholtz" to some), what I explained in the message that got you started on standard deviations, is the best remedy known to me for the current anomalies and complaints, but it only works when there is a sufficient number of votes (at least 5 or so). There is no solution for avoiding the first vote, whether considered too favorable or too unfavorable. I'll add another suggestion to this thread in a separate message. :)
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles]
This month's tips: - before you ask a question here, search CodeProject, then Google; - the quality and detail of your question reflects on the effectiveness of the help you are likely to get; - use PRE tags to preserve formatting when showing multi-line code snippets.
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I think that when you vote <= 3 for an article you should have to give a reason why your voting this low. These suggestions could then be passed on to the author. I'm sick of people giving me crummy votes but not telling me what they thought was wrong or where it could be better. How can you improve something if people don't tell you whats wrong?
Please check out my articles: The ANZAC's articles
I'll try another suggestion here: 1. add a short radio-buttoned list (with mutually exclusive items, unchecked by default), asking for the most relevant comment: - bad formatting - too short - unintelligable - irrelevant - plain wrong - fine - great 2. disable the vote button as long as nothing got checked. 3. show the percentages of the selected comments (optimization: only to the author, and the people that already voted on the article). :)
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles]
This month's tips: - before you ask a question here, search CodeProject, then Google; - the quality and detail of your question reflects on the effectiveness of the help you are likely to get; - use PRE tags to preserve formatting when showing multi-line code snippets.
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eliminating the extremes (known as "modified Bucholtz" to some), what I explained in the message that got you started on standard deviations, is the best remedy known to me for the current anomalies and complaints, but it only works when there is a sufficient number of votes (at least 5 or so). There is no solution for avoiding the first vote, whether considered too favorable or too unfavorable. I'll add another suggestion to this thread in a separate message. :)
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles]
This month's tips: - before you ask a question here, search CodeProject, then Google; - the quality and detail of your question reflects on the effectiveness of the help you are likely to get; - use PRE tags to preserve formatting when showing multi-line code snippets.
Luc Pattyn wrote:
at least 5 or so
Yes. You couldn't really use the modified Bucholtz when there are too few votes. On the other hand, when you get articles where there are 50+ votes, it's pretty pointless.
"I guess it's what separates the professionals from the drag and drop, girly wirly, namby pamby, wishy washy, can't code for crap types." - Pete O'Hanlon
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I'll try another suggestion here: 1. add a short radio-buttoned list (with mutually exclusive items, unchecked by default), asking for the most relevant comment: - bad formatting - too short - unintelligable - irrelevant - plain wrong - fine - great 2. disable the vote button as long as nothing got checked. 3. show the percentages of the selected comments (optimization: only to the author, and the people that already voted on the article). :)
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles]
This month's tips: - before you ask a question here, search CodeProject, then Google; - the quality and detail of your question reflects on the effectiveness of the help you are likely to get; - use PRE tags to preserve formatting when showing multi-line code snippets.
I agree on that one. I don't see why people would object. There is nothing overly revealing about the voter with this approach. The radio buttons/checkboxes can then be a tool for the author to improve him/herself.
"I guess it's what separates the professionals from the drag and drop, girly wirly, namby pamby, wishy washy, can't code for crap types." - Pete O'Hanlon
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I'll try another suggestion here: 1. add a short radio-buttoned list (with mutually exclusive items, unchecked by default), asking for the most relevant comment: - bad formatting - too short - unintelligable - irrelevant - plain wrong - fine - great 2. disable the vote button as long as nothing got checked. 3. show the percentages of the selected comments (optimization: only to the author, and the people that already voted on the article). :)
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles]
This month's tips: - before you ask a question here, search CodeProject, then Google; - the quality and detail of your question reflects on the effectiveness of the help you are likely to get; - use PRE tags to preserve formatting when showing multi-line code snippets.
Yes this could be displayed much like the weekly poll, as a sort of article profile. That way you would know where you have to improve your article. I only suggest one more item, Other with a textbox to write in.
Please check out my articles: The ANZAC's articles
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Yes this could be displayed much like the weekly poll, as a sort of article profile. That way you would know where you have to improve your article. I only suggest one more item, Other with a textbox to write in.
Please check out my articles: The ANZAC's articles
The ANZAC wrote:
I only suggest one more item, Other with a textbox to write in.
Only problem about that, is some idiot could fill it in with gibberish...
"I guess it's what separates the professionals from the drag and drop, girly wirly, namby pamby, wishy washy, can't code for crap types." - Pete O'Hanlon
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Yes this could be displayed much like the weekly poll, as a sort of article profile. That way you would know where you have to improve your article. I only suggest one more item, Other with a textbox to write in.
Please check out my articles: The ANZAC's articles
I am in favor of keeping it simple, predictable and easy to fill in. So my layout would just double the row of radio buttons: the first row would contain "Most relevant remark: " followed by the radio buttons and texts, the second row would be the actual voting row as it is now. When the viewer has voted (or is the author), I would replace the radio buttons in the first row by the current percentages. And I would not provide an "other" category; if none seem appropriate, the voter would still have to select an existing one, but he always can add a message. The net result is: - it takes almost no extra space - it does not disrupt the current layout by much - hence it should have a high acceptance High acceptance is essential, I do not want to reduce the probability a vote is cast. Voting is the primary goal, getting info as to why a low vote is cast is secondary to that. :)
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles]
This month's tips: - before you ask a question here, search CodeProject, then Google; - the quality and detail of your question reflects on the effectiveness of the help you are likely to get; - use PRE tags to preserve formatting when showing multi-line code snippets.