Intro + doubt
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Dear All, First of all i will introduce myself. I am Julia, studying IT and i am from Ireland. I am not fully Irish(Irish + French) though. :) Ok now come to the point. I am looking for the answer to the below mentioned question. I hope this place is right to ask this type of questions. Object Oriented concepts are more relevant to Framework or to Component ? I have a big time confusion about the same. What would be the good example to explain the difference between the two. I am still looking for this answer. And if you have any good link which could clear my doubt to have some proof then please do provide me. I hope i'll have a good experience here at CP. Looking forward for your thoughts. Regards Julia :)
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Dear All, First of all i will introduce myself. I am Julia, studying IT and i am from Ireland. I am not fully Irish(Irish + French) though. :) Ok now come to the point. I am looking for the answer to the below mentioned question. I hope this place is right to ask this type of questions. Object Oriented concepts are more relevant to Framework or to Component ? I have a big time confusion about the same. What would be the good example to explain the difference between the two. I am still looking for this answer. And if you have any good link which could clear my doubt to have some proof then please do provide me. I hope i'll have a good experience here at CP. Looking forward for your thoughts. Regards Julia :)
Julia4u wrote:
Object Oriented concepts are more relevant to Framework or to Component ?
It is kind of a weird question, I don't have the answer, but I do have a question for you.. Electricity is more relevant to bulb or machine ?? To me that relevancy you are trying to find is irrelevant. What is your question really?
L.W.C. Nirosh. Colombo, Sri Lanka.
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Dear All, First of all i will introduce myself. I am Julia, studying IT and i am from Ireland. I am not fully Irish(Irish + French) though. :) Ok now come to the point. I am looking for the answer to the below mentioned question. I hope this place is right to ask this type of questions. Object Oriented concepts are more relevant to Framework or to Component ? I have a big time confusion about the same. What would be the good example to explain the difference between the two. I am still looking for this answer. And if you have any good link which could clear my doubt to have some proof then please do provide me. I hope i'll have a good experience here at CP. Looking forward for your thoughts. Regards Julia :)
In what context are you asking this ? It makes no sense to me, at all. Why would OO apply more to one than the other ? I guess if your framework is written in C, but otherwise... If your framework is not OO, then the component you write with it ( I assume this is what you mean ) cannot be, right ? And if your framework IS OO, you'd have to work hard to write code with it that was not OO at all, right ?
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ "also I don't think "TranslateOneToTwoBillion OneHundredAndFortySevenMillion FourHundredAndEightyThreeThousand SixHundredAndFortySeven()" is a very good choice for a function name" - SpacixOne ( offering help to someone who really needed it ) ( spaces added for the benefit of people running at < 1280x1024 )
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Julia4u wrote:
Object Oriented concepts are more relevant to Framework or to Component ?
It is kind of a weird question, I don't have the answer, but I do have a question for you.. Electricity is more relevant to bulb or machine ?? To me that relevancy you are trying to find is irrelevant. What is your question really?
L.W.C. Nirosh. Colombo, Sri Lanka.
Hello L.W.C Nirosh, Thanks for your input. Yes, i do not understand this question as well. That is why i asked experienced developers to explain me. But this question is 100% valid according to my IT department in my college. I don't have any experience with Frameworks(except .Net) and components so it makes it more hard to understand. So you are refering bulb as a component and machine as a framework. So bulb can be placed in a machine ? And for both Electricity is important. I know what you mean. But i think i will wait for further replies. I wish some one will understand this question and will help me out. Regards, Julia
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Hello L.W.C Nirosh, Thanks for your input. Yes, i do not understand this question as well. That is why i asked experienced developers to explain me. But this question is 100% valid according to my IT department in my college. I don't have any experience with Frameworks(except .Net) and components so it makes it more hard to understand. So you are refering bulb as a component and machine as a framework. So bulb can be placed in a machine ? And for both Electricity is important. I know what you mean. But i think i will wait for further replies. I wish some one will understand this question and will help me out. Regards, Julia
Julia4u wrote:
But this question is 100% valid according to my IT department in my college.
Oh My God!! Well, if these two are the options, then Frameworks are more relevant as a framework cannot be defined without OO concepts (mainly such as inheritance) but a component may. But,, that is one of the most stupid question I have ever heard.
L.W.C. Nirosh. Colombo, Sri Lanka.
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In what context are you asking this ? It makes no sense to me, at all. Why would OO apply more to one than the other ? I guess if your framework is written in C, but otherwise... If your framework is not OO, then the component you write with it ( I assume this is what you mean ) cannot be, right ? And if your framework IS OO, you'd have to work hard to write code with it that was not OO at all, right ?
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ "also I don't think "TranslateOneToTwoBillion OneHundredAndFortySevenMillion FourHundredAndEightyThreeThousand SixHundredAndFortySeven()" is a very good choice for a function name" - SpacixOne ( offering help to someone who really needed it ) ( spaces added for the benefit of people running at < 1280x1024 )
Hello Christian Graus, Thanks for your input. Actually i have to evaluate between the two. i.e. i have to discuss if OO concepts are particullary useful to framework approach or the component approach. I hope it is clear now. I am looking for some material off the net to gain some knowledge about this issue but no luck as off now. Regards Julia
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Dear All, First of all i will introduce myself. I am Julia, studying IT and i am from Ireland. I am not fully Irish(Irish + French) though. :) Ok now come to the point. I am looking for the answer to the below mentioned question. I hope this place is right to ask this type of questions. Object Oriented concepts are more relevant to Framework or to Component ? I have a big time confusion about the same. What would be the good example to explain the difference between the two. I am still looking for this answer. And if you have any good link which could clear my doubt to have some proof then please do provide me. I hope i'll have a good experience here at CP. Looking forward for your thoughts. Regards Julia :)
Julia4u wrote:
Object Oriented concepts are more relevant to Framework or to Component ?
What is a framework? I wrote an article on that. You might say a framework is a structured, possibly hierarchical, interconnected collection of components (whereas a library is a loose collection of disconnected components). So where does that leave you with OO? Not much further along. You might also want to read my article on What's Wrong With Objects. (I didn't provide the links because, since you're new here, it would be good for you to figure out how to go to a member's profile and from there view their articles, etc).
Julia4u wrote:
I hope i'll have a good experience here at CP.
Just don't post programming questions on the lounge. ;) So, let's pretend you are the horse and I'm the water. You know the saying "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink it?" So, along those lines, let me ask you: How would you define OO concepts? What do you think a framework is? What do you think a component is? Is there, in your mind, a relationship between a component and a framework? Are all components by nature OO? Are all frameworks by nature OO? (I hope you answered no to that last question) So, what kind of components and frameworks are suited for OO concepts? And if you can answer that, can you describe some best practices for applying OO concepts to specific kinds of components and frameworks? If you can answer that last question, you have successfully walked to the water. Now do you dare take a drink? ;P (and yeah, it's 9PM EST, I'm in a wierd mood, but if you hang out here, you'll have to get used to me). Marc
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Julia4u wrote:
Object Oriented concepts are more relevant to Framework or to Component ?
What is a framework? I wrote an article on that. You might say a framework is a structured, possibly hierarchical, interconnected collection of components (whereas a library is a loose collection of disconnected components). So where does that leave you with OO? Not much further along. You might also want to read my article on What's Wrong With Objects. (I didn't provide the links because, since you're new here, it would be good for you to figure out how to go to a member's profile and from there view their articles, etc).
Julia4u wrote:
I hope i'll have a good experience here at CP.
Just don't post programming questions on the lounge. ;) So, let's pretend you are the horse and I'm the water. You know the saying "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink it?" So, along those lines, let me ask you: How would you define OO concepts? What do you think a framework is? What do you think a component is? Is there, in your mind, a relationship between a component and a framework? Are all components by nature OO? Are all frameworks by nature OO? (I hope you answered no to that last question) So, what kind of components and frameworks are suited for OO concepts? And if you can answer that, can you describe some best practices for applying OO concepts to specific kinds of components and frameworks? If you can answer that last question, you have successfully walked to the water. Now do you dare take a drink? ;P (and yeah, it's 9PM EST, I'm in a wierd mood, but if you hang out here, you'll have to get used to me). Marc
Hello Marc Clifton, I wish instead of asking me these question, if you could provide me answer to it then it will be much clear to me. I have read a lot about Framework and Component now. But nowhere they discuss this issue. And to be very honest it is still not too clear to me. Framework is reusable design. May be collection of components.And components instances of ADT that can be used in application. Regards, Julia
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Julia4u wrote:
But this question is 100% valid according to my IT department in my college.
Oh My God!! Well, if these two are the options, then Frameworks are more relevant as a framework cannot be defined without OO concepts (mainly such as inheritance) but a component may. But,, that is one of the most stupid question I have ever heard.
L.W.C. Nirosh. Colombo, Sri Lanka.
Nirosh wrote:
Well, if these two are the options, then Frameworks are more relevant as a framework cannot be defined without OO concepts (mainly such as inheritance) but a component may.
I disagree! (well, sure, why not. ;) ) A framework is merely a set of tools and libraries created to support a specific method of application design. There's no requirement that they be OO, although that does seem to be the norm. Component OTOH, implies pluggable objects.
But who is the king of all of these folks?
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Julia4u wrote:
Object Oriented concepts are more relevant to Framework or to Component ?
What is a framework? I wrote an article on that. You might say a framework is a structured, possibly hierarchical, interconnected collection of components (whereas a library is a loose collection of disconnected components). So where does that leave you with OO? Not much further along. You might also want to read my article on What's Wrong With Objects. (I didn't provide the links because, since you're new here, it would be good for you to figure out how to go to a member's profile and from there view their articles, etc).
Julia4u wrote:
I hope i'll have a good experience here at CP.
Just don't post programming questions on the lounge. ;) So, let's pretend you are the horse and I'm the water. You know the saying "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink it?" So, along those lines, let me ask you: How would you define OO concepts? What do you think a framework is? What do you think a component is? Is there, in your mind, a relationship between a component and a framework? Are all components by nature OO? Are all frameworks by nature OO? (I hope you answered no to that last question) So, what kind of components and frameworks are suited for OO concepts? And if you can answer that, can you describe some best practices for applying OO concepts to specific kinds of components and frameworks? If you can answer that last question, you have successfully walked to the water. Now do you dare take a drink? ;P (and yeah, it's 9PM EST, I'm in a wierd mood, but if you hang out here, you'll have to get used to me). Marc
Marc Clifton wrote:
So, let's pretend you are the horse and I'm the water. You know the saying "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink it?" So, along those lines, let me ask you:
There's another saying: "You can lead an Indian to CodeProject, have him fake sex, location and nationality, but you can't wrangle a decent question out of him".
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Hello Marc Clifton, I wish instead of asking me these question, if you could provide me answer to it then it will be much clear to me. I have read a lot about Framework and Component now. But nowhere they discuss this issue. And to be very honest it is still not too clear to me. Framework is reusable design. May be collection of components.And components instances of ADT that can be used in application. Regards, Julia
i think what marc is saying is that you need to think about the concepts of frameworks and components and understand what each are and how they are (or can be) constructed ... then you will see the way to answer your own questions ... for true knowledge only comes thru understanding ones own questions ... if you dont do that then all you want is someone to do your homework for you and you will learn nothing (and go on to become a vb programmer and suffer the scorn and ridicule of us for all eternity etc etc) easy choice eh? ;)
"mostly watching the human race is like watching dogs watch tv ... they see the pictures move but the meaning escapes them"
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Nirosh wrote:
Well, if these two are the options, then Frameworks are more relevant as a framework cannot be defined without OO concepts (mainly such as inheritance) but a component may.
I disagree! (well, sure, why not. ;) ) A framework is merely a set of tools and libraries created to support a specific method of application design. There's no requirement that they be OO, although that does seem to be the norm. Component OTOH, implies pluggable objects.
But who is the king of all of these folks?
Shog9 wrote:
I disagree!
So why don't you pick a one answer,, you only have two.. Anyway here is my answer for the original poster, let's debate on this This is not a question for a professional.. I mean it is stupid. This has to be asked from a student.. to me answering to your question is a real mess.. I can ask thousand of question that violate my own definition, given (at least trying) below.. Component: Is a part of a software, which more often, it alone is capable or representing a section of a software. You may add/ remove component to/ from your software. As an example a notification module of a web application can be an one component, there you may just called a method with relevant parameters to send a notification email..That component may queued up requests, then connect to a mail server to sequentially send them. There can be another module or component or a part that handles the IO operation of the system. Framework: That alone does not make much sense with respect to a final solution, and it is a concept or the basic guideline of how you really need to build or implement a system. As an example there can be a simple framework to create a content management system, where it has the basic definition with its default implementation, but it order to build the content management system you need to do further developments on top of that framework. Finally, this is a half baked answer. I know it is not perfect. But as some of the other replies already requested, you need to read.. It is clear, that you don't understand the basic OOP concepts, when we answer your questions, we may definitely use them. So the end result would be that even if you read the answer you will not understand it, since you don’t know the base words that we would used to give the answer..
L.W.C. Nirosh. Colombo, Sri Lanka.
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i think what marc is saying is that you need to think about the concepts of frameworks and components and understand what each are and how they are (or can be) constructed ... then you will see the way to answer your own questions ... for true knowledge only comes thru understanding ones own questions ... if you dont do that then all you want is someone to do your homework for you and you will learn nothing (and go on to become a vb programmer and suffer the scorn and ridicule of us for all eternity etc etc) easy choice eh? ;)
"mostly watching the human race is like watching dogs watch tv ... they see the pictures move but the meaning escapes them"
l a u r e n wrote:
for true knowledge only comes thru understanding ones own questions
“Do or do not... there is no try.” Master Yoda ;)
Adam Smith www.codeproject.com
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Dear All, First of all i will introduce myself. I am Julia, studying IT and i am from Ireland. I am not fully Irish(Irish + French) though. :) Ok now come to the point. I am looking for the answer to the below mentioned question. I hope this place is right to ask this type of questions. Object Oriented concepts are more relevant to Framework or to Component ? I have a big time confusion about the same. What would be the good example to explain the difference between the two. I am still looking for this answer. And if you have any good link which could clear my doubt to have some proof then please do provide me. I hope i'll have a good experience here at CP. Looking forward for your thoughts. Regards Julia :)
Julia4u wrote:
Object Oriented concepts are more relevant to Framework or to Component ?
I always believed that Object Oriented is component oriented. An object is made of up A,B,and C. This object fits with other objects that have X,Y, and Z. All of these objects are placed in a specific way to create a framework. A classic example of an object is a Person object (or class). This CPerson would have a name, address, and phone number. Another object could be a pet, so CPet, which could be an inherited class of CPerson but let's add Species as a var. Anyway, these object would fit into the framework of your application. ...hey no programming questions in the lounge :P
Julia4u wrote:
First of all i will introduce myself.
Hello welcome to CP! Look out for the angry badgers and Soapbox gremlins.
Later, JoeSox CPMCv1.0 - humanaiproject.org - Last.fm - pswrdgen - PPokemon
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Hello Marc Clifton, I wish instead of asking me these question, if you could provide me answer to it then it will be much clear to me. I have read a lot about Framework and Component now. But nowhere they discuss this issue. And to be very honest it is still not too clear to me. Framework is reusable design. May be collection of components.And components instances of ADT that can be used in application. Regards, Julia
Julia4u wrote:
I wish instead of asking me these question, if you could provide me answer to it then it will be much clear to me.
So much for leading the horse to water even. First, I have no intention of doing your homework, your dissertation, your presentation, or whatever it is that you're trying to weasle your way out of. And the point of me asking those questions is as lauren said. Second, I'm not in the business of spoon feeding answers to people. Third, if you can't even take a stab yourself at those questions and enter a possibly interesting dialog, then I come rapidly to the conclusion that you're just trolling to get your homework done. Newbies. :sigh: Marc
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Dear All, First of all i will introduce myself. I am Julia, studying IT and i am from Ireland. I am not fully Irish(Irish + French) though. :) Ok now come to the point. I am looking for the answer to the below mentioned question. I hope this place is right to ask this type of questions. Object Oriented concepts are more relevant to Framework or to Component ? I have a big time confusion about the same. What would be the good example to explain the difference between the two. I am still looking for this answer. And if you have any good link which could clear my doubt to have some proof then please do provide me. I hope i'll have a good experience here at CP. Looking forward for your thoughts. Regards Julia :)
Julia4u wrote:
I hope i'll have a good experience here at CP.
Welcome aboard the code ship... free cocktails in the lounge! ;)
Adam Smith www.codeproject.com
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i think what marc is saying is that you need to think about the concepts of frameworks and components and understand what each are and how they are (or can be) constructed ... then you will see the way to answer your own questions ... for true knowledge only comes thru understanding ones own questions ... if you dont do that then all you want is someone to do your homework for you and you will learn nothing (and go on to become a vb programmer and suffer the scorn and ridicule of us for all eternity etc etc) easy choice eh? ;)
"mostly watching the human race is like watching dogs watch tv ... they see the pictures move but the meaning escapes them"
l a u r e n wrote:
i think what marc is saying is that you need to think about the concepts of frameworks and components and understand what each are and how they are (or can be) constructed ... then you will see the way to answer your own questions ... for true knowledge only comes thru understanding ones own questions
Exactly! Marc
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Shog9 wrote:
I disagree!
So why don't you pick a one answer,, you only have two.. Anyway here is my answer for the original poster, let's debate on this This is not a question for a professional.. I mean it is stupid. This has to be asked from a student.. to me answering to your question is a real mess.. I can ask thousand of question that violate my own definition, given (at least trying) below.. Component: Is a part of a software, which more often, it alone is capable or representing a section of a software. You may add/ remove component to/ from your software. As an example a notification module of a web application can be an one component, there you may just called a method with relevant parameters to send a notification email..That component may queued up requests, then connect to a mail server to sequentially send them. There can be another module or component or a part that handles the IO operation of the system. Framework: That alone does not make much sense with respect to a final solution, and it is a concept or the basic guideline of how you really need to build or implement a system. As an example there can be a simple framework to create a content management system, where it has the basic definition with its default implementation, but it order to build the content management system you need to do further developments on top of that framework. Finally, this is a half baked answer. I know it is not perfect. But as some of the other replies already requested, you need to read.. It is clear, that you don't understand the basic OOP concepts, when we answer your questions, we may definitely use them. So the end result would be that even if you read the answer you will not understand it, since you don’t know the base words that we would used to give the answer..
L.W.C. Nirosh. Colombo, Sri Lanka.
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Dear All, First of all i will introduce myself. I am Julia, studying IT and i am from Ireland. I am not fully Irish(Irish + French) though. :) Ok now come to the point. I am looking for the answer to the below mentioned question. I hope this place is right to ask this type of questions. Object Oriented concepts are more relevant to Framework or to Component ? I have a big time confusion about the same. What would be the good example to explain the difference between the two. I am still looking for this answer. And if you have any good link which could clear my doubt to have some proof then please do provide me. I hope i'll have a good experience here at CP. Looking forward for your thoughts. Regards Julia :)
I am not fully Irish(Irish + French) though. I've never met an Irish who is fully Irish. I dont know :) You speak french? Ok beware, we've got some ramantoxic guys around who may try their honey-dipped language to get you fallen. Object Oriented concepts are more relevant to Framework or to Component ? Well I'll invoke my instincts to predict your actual need...done. Component. By any chance you managed to dig into COM? (Component Object Model)? If so I see some sense in your question. COM as such is object oriented. It's based on Interfaces so even in the simplest COM Component you will get to see OO implementation. But if you are just talking about a "component" literally, it can mean anything that is reusable and that can be plugged-in. You can make a dll in C and you might wish to call it a main "component" of your application. But that does necessarily mean it has to be object oriented. BUT, if once you say you've done a COM component, you've already let the OO get in. got it? Framework: It makes life better & simpler for a programmer. Instead of letting your hand & nose dirty with raw apis & stuff, it gets you a much simpler way to get a functionailty done. And as MS says, it would let you go back home fast. :) Ok hold on, The basic definition for OOP: Object-oriented programming (OOP) is a programming paradigm that uses "objects" and their interactions to design applications and computer programs. It is based on several techniques, including encapsulation, modularity, polymorphism, and inheritance. As you see, it's a very generic paradigm. You can implement it anywhere. Read it again, "it's a concept". So there's no point in talking about if that is more OO or this is more OO. it all depends on to what extent this&that has implemented OO. Since it's your first question, we have managed to put the torches back and have given you a rope. Next time, hehe I'll burn the ropes before burning you ;). And as by our ritual, I've given you a 1. :-\
OK,. what country just started work for the day ? The ASP.NET forum is flooded with retarded questions. -Christian Graus Best wishes to Rexx[^]
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Julia4u wrote:
I wish instead of asking me these question, if you could provide me answer to it then it will be much clear to me.
So much for leading the horse to water even. First, I have no intention of doing your homework, your dissertation, your presentation, or whatever it is that you're trying to weasle your way out of. And the point of me asking those questions is as lauren said. Second, I'm not in the business of spoon feeding answers to people. Third, if you can't even take a stab yourself at those questions and enter a possibly interesting dialog, then I come rapidly to the conclusion that you're just trolling to get your homework done. Newbies. :sigh: Marc
its a pity - for her .. she had one of the masters giving her thoughts to start with and clues to read his articles, but she comes back with a thinly worded 'please do my homework for me' ... what a waste !!!! they say youth is wasted on the young - theyre not kidding if this is an indication 'g'