The Obama problem
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Patrick S wrote:
I'm simply saying that I'm not one to make rash judgements, as others are
Rash? If you have ponder the word, "Not God bless America, no no, God damn America", for more than a second before making a judgement then you must ponder through a rainstorm before opening an umbrella.
Patrick S wrote:
if anyone REALLY cared about these issues, they'd ask McCain about Hagee and Robertson
Asked and answered, pay attention. The critical points are that: the reveruuund Wright is Barack Huessein Obama's pastor, his mentor (a direct quote). Hagee and Robertson are not McCain's pastors's, they have simply endorsed him. But if those endorsements upset you, how are you with the Hamas' endorsement of Barack Hussein Obama ??? Just checking. and, fyi - I am not a McCain supporter, yet. He's a sell out on a couple of fronts: freedom of speech and immigration, and so far removed from conservative principles that there's little difference between he and Clinton. Point in fact, I'll be voting in the Democratic Primary, specifically so Clinton will get the nomination - then in November my choice of the lesser of 2 evils will be a tad easier.
Mike - typical white guy. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
Rash? If you have ponder the word, "Not God bless America, no no, God damn America", for more than a second before making a judgement then you must ponder through a rainstorm before opening an umbrella.
I'm not saying there's nothing wrong with Wright's words - there is. What I AM saying is that one has to assume alot to come to the conclusion they are representative of the man, the church, or at a very long stretch, Obama.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
Hagee and Robertson are not McCain's pastors's, they have simply endorsed him.
McCain actively sought out Hagee's endorsement. You know, the guy who said New Orleans deserved what happened to it because of sin.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
But if those endorsements upset you
See, here's the thing - they don't. Endorsements are like throwing bubble gum on a chess board and acting like it changes the game - they're irrelevant. They're simply fodder for one side to accuse the other of some wrong doing.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
how are you with the Hamas' endorsement of Barack Hussein Obama ???
Sorry - was I supposed to give one whit of a rat's ass what some terrorist organization thinks about an American primary? Remind me again why they have a voice in OUR elections, and why we should care one little ant's fart what the hell they think of it? Hamas is doing nothing but making a naked play for political power in an American election. Apparently - the default position is to give Hamas that kind of political power, judging by McCain's response to this. Please note my snark isn't really directed at you; it's directed at Hamas, and by extension a large part of conservative America that is having a collective orgasm over this issue. It's ridiculous to give Hamas that kind of credibility.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
He's a sell out on a couple of fronts
FWIW, if Clinton gets the nomination, McCain is also getting my vote, because as you say, swallowing that lesser of two evils is a tad easier.
It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has exceeded our humanity. - Albert Einstein
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Vincent Reynolds wrote:
Given your knowledge of American history, I can only hope you're trolling...
The problem is that no matter why one calls Obama a monkey, his supporters would immedately claim it was a race-based insult. We've seen a number of cases like this already where Bill Clinton - once revered as "the first black president" - has been savagely trashed for his willingess to suggest that race is an issue in this campaign and that some of Obama's supporters are as unthinkingly biased as some of his detractors.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Oakman wrote:
The problem is that no matter why one calls Obama a monkey, his supporters would immedately claim it was a race-based insult. We've seen a number of cases like this already where Bill Clinton - once revered as "the first black president" - has been savagely trashed for his willingess to suggest that race is an issue in this campaign and that some of Obama's supporters are as unthinkingly biased as some of his detractors.
True enough. The problem is that Bush is a privileged white guy from New England. If someone calls him a monkey, they're talking about his looks or his intellect. If someone calls Obama a monkey, the probability of it being intended as a racial slur is damn close to 100%. Maybe it's not fair, but I don't think the end result is handicapping his political opponents. It's not like there aren't other things to call him -- all of them, actually -- that are better suited and more relevant to a political discussion.
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Oakman wrote:
The problem is that no matter why one calls Obama a monkey, his supporters would immedately claim it was a race-based insult. We've seen a number of cases like this already where Bill Clinton - once revered as "the first black president" - has been savagely trashed for his willingess to suggest that race is an issue in this campaign and that some of Obama's supporters are as unthinkingly biased as some of his detractors.
True enough. The problem is that Bush is a privileged white guy from New England. If someone calls him a monkey, they're talking about his looks or his intellect. If someone calls Obama a monkey, the probability of it being intended as a racial slur is damn close to 100%. Maybe it's not fair, but I don't think the end result is handicapping his political opponents. It's not like there aren't other things to call him -- all of them, actually -- that are better suited and more relevant to a political discussion.
Vincent Reynolds wrote:
The problem is that Bush is a privileged white guy from New England
I beg your pardon? I am a privileged white guy from New England (even if I now live in South Carolina). Bush is a silver-spooned guy from Texas. ;)
Vincent Reynolds wrote:
Maybe it's not fair,
One of the ways we can tell the difference between animals and humans is that we have the understanding and the ability, and the impulse to be fair. But it's not locked in. We can be unfair. so, in my experience, any time someone says it doesn't have to be fair, roll your pants up cause it's too late save your shoes from the shit river that's about to flow.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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73Zeppelin wrote:
never knew how much I liked it until I left.
I believe that there's a method that involves ruby slippers and clicking your heels together three times. . .
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Oakman wrote:
I believe that there's a method that involves ruby slippers and clicking your heels together three times. . .
I wish - I can't wait to get out of here. For every nice person, there's at least 10 crazies. I've never seen anything like it. :|
And when the sunlight hits the olive oil, don't hesitate.
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Oakman wrote:
I believe that there's a method that involves ruby slippers and clicking your heels together three times. . .
I wish - I can't wait to get out of here. For every nice person, there's at least 10 crazies. I've never seen anything like it. :|
And when the sunlight hits the olive oil, don't hesitate.
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Vincent Reynolds wrote:
The problem is that Bush is a privileged white guy from New England
I beg your pardon? I am a privileged white guy from New England (even if I now live in South Carolina). Bush is a silver-spooned guy from Texas. ;)
Vincent Reynolds wrote:
Maybe it's not fair,
One of the ways we can tell the difference between animals and humans is that we have the understanding and the ability, and the impulse to be fair. But it's not locked in. We can be unfair. so, in my experience, any time someone says it doesn't have to be fair, roll your pants up cause it's too late save your shoes from the shit river that's about to flow.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Oakman wrote:
I beg your pardon? I am a privileged white guy from New England (even if I now live in South Carolina). Bush is a silver-spooned guy from Texas.
Bush was born in New Haven, Connecticut. Even though he was subsequently raised in Texas, most of his schooling was in New England -- Andover Academy, Yale, Harvard. He can clear as much brush as he wants at the ranch in Crawford, I don't think he has earned his shit-kicker cred. I'm a privileged white guy from Missouri, myself, but spent enough summers working my uncle's dairy farm that I'm pretty sure I've kicked more shit than our President. For what that's worth. :)
Oakman wrote:
One of the ways we can tell the difference between animals and humans is that we have the understanding and the ability, and the impulse to be fair. But it's not locked in. We can be unfair. so, in my experience, any time someone says it doesn't have to be fair, roll your pants up cause it's too late save your shoes from the sh*t river that's about to flow.
The point I was trying to make to Stanley was that taking "monkey" off the table doesn't create any significant fairness disparity. Given the historically racist connotations of the term, taking it off the table would amount to indulging our human impulse to be fair. Of course, Stan's not looking for fair, he's looking for tactical advantage.
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Oakman wrote:
I beg your pardon? I am a privileged white guy from New England (even if I now live in South Carolina). Bush is a silver-spooned guy from Texas.
Bush was born in New Haven, Connecticut. Even though he was subsequently raised in Texas, most of his schooling was in New England -- Andover Academy, Yale, Harvard. He can clear as much brush as he wants at the ranch in Crawford, I don't think he has earned his shit-kicker cred. I'm a privileged white guy from Missouri, myself, but spent enough summers working my uncle's dairy farm that I'm pretty sure I've kicked more shit than our President. For what that's worth. :)
Oakman wrote:
One of the ways we can tell the difference between animals and humans is that we have the understanding and the ability, and the impulse to be fair. But it's not locked in. We can be unfair. so, in my experience, any time someone says it doesn't have to be fair, roll your pants up cause it's too late save your shoes from the sh*t river that's about to flow.
The point I was trying to make to Stanley was that taking "monkey" off the table doesn't create any significant fairness disparity. Given the historically racist connotations of the term, taking it off the table would amount to indulging our human impulse to be fair. Of course, Stan's not looking for fair, he's looking for tactical advantage.
Vincent Reynolds wrote:
Bush was born in New Haven, Connecticut
I think I knew that once and blocked it out of my memory.
Vincent Reynolds wrote:
Of course, Stan's not looking for fair, he's looking for tactical advantage.
True. But then so is Obama. And Clinton - both of 'em.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
Rash? If you have ponder the word, "Not God bless America, no no, God damn America", for more than a second before making a judgement then you must ponder through a rainstorm before opening an umbrella.
I'm not saying there's nothing wrong with Wright's words - there is. What I AM saying is that one has to assume alot to come to the conclusion they are representative of the man, the church, or at a very long stretch, Obama.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
Hagee and Robertson are not McCain's pastors's, they have simply endorsed him.
McCain actively sought out Hagee's endorsement. You know, the guy who said New Orleans deserved what happened to it because of sin.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
But if those endorsements upset you
See, here's the thing - they don't. Endorsements are like throwing bubble gum on a chess board and acting like it changes the game - they're irrelevant. They're simply fodder for one side to accuse the other of some wrong doing.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
how are you with the Hamas' endorsement of Barack Hussein Obama ???
Sorry - was I supposed to give one whit of a rat's ass what some terrorist organization thinks about an American primary? Remind me again why they have a voice in OUR elections, and why we should care one little ant's fart what the hell they think of it? Hamas is doing nothing but making a naked play for political power in an American election. Apparently - the default position is to give Hamas that kind of political power, judging by McCain's response to this. Please note my snark isn't really directed at you; it's directed at Hamas, and by extension a large part of conservative America that is having a collective orgasm over this issue. It's ridiculous to give Hamas that kind of credibility.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
He's a sell out on a couple of fronts
FWIW, if Clinton gets the nomination, McCain is also getting my vote, because as you say, swallowing that lesser of two evils is a tad easier.
It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has exceeded our humanity. - Albert Einstein
Can't argue with much you've said.
Mike - typical white guy. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
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insight into why he'll not be elected[^]
Mike - typical white guy. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
insight into why he'll not be elected[^]
You protest too much. Keep saying it and it'll be true.