The Obama problem
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Tim Craig wrote:
From what you said your grandfather was a reasonable person.
He was very stubborn and got drunk alot too.
The Digital World. It is an amazing place in which we primitive humans interact. Our flesh made this synthetic machine. You see, we are so smart, we know a lot of stuff. We were grown from cells that came from the universe, which the matter and physics I'm typing in it is amazing how the universe is working. Human life is very amazing. How I experience this sh*t its like wow.
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CataclysmicQuantum wrote:
got drunk alot too.
So you're claiming your substance abuse is hereditary? :laugh: Maybe he didn't start drinking until he saw what he had for a grandson?
Doing my part to piss off the religious right.
He started drinking fairly young. And yeah it is hereditary.
The Digital World. It is an amazing place in which we primitive humans interact. Our flesh made this synthetic machine. You see, we are so smart, we know a lot of stuff. We were grown from cells that came from the universe, which the matter and physics I'm typing in it is amazing how the universe is working. Human life is very amazing. How I experience this sh*t its like wow.
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Wow! Good boy! What other tricks can you do?
The Digital World. It is an amazing place in which we primitive humans interact. Our flesh made this synthetic machine. You see, we are so smart, we know a lot of stuff. We were grown from cells that came from the universe, which the matter and physics I'm typing in it is amazing how the universe is working. Human life is very amazing. How I experience this sh*t its like wow.
Stop talking, by god. :zzz:
Drawing on my fine command of language, I said nothing.
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
as to perspective, here's yet another view[^]
You appear to be repeating yourself. I read it and watched it the first time. The fact that they hold some strongly left wing views is not surprising or remarkable. There are quite a lot of people like that, particularly around universities. Most of them manage to play constructive roles in society nevertheless, as Ayers and Dohrn appear to be doing. The fact that Obama has a slight association with them should not be a cause for any alarm --- but of course it will be.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
Oh? he's promised Chris Wallace and Bill O'Reilley an interview and after almost 2 years has finally condescended to be interviewed this Sunday on Wallace's Sunday morning show.
So he has agreed to talk to them --- a bunch of war mongering, torture-loving, Constitution-trashing scum bags. Obama is indeed a statesman.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
he's spent 20 years of Sunday's sitting in achurch pew while a minister spews "Black Liberation Theology" that: 1. Condems his own country for its drug problem 2. Condems his own country for creating and spreading AIDs 3. Condems his own country for the problems black have
Another perspective: http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/nickiekalla/gGBKlk[^]
Mike Gaskey wrote:
Then we have Obama, talking to money men in San Fransico, demeaning blue collar working folk for: 1. clinging to their guns 2. clinging to their religion
As a religious person himself, he was hardly likely to demean people for being religious. His point was simply that they had given up on economic issues and focussed on cultural ones. He may not have been right on this, by the way, but if you read the whole statement in context, then he is clearly sympathetic. See here:
OBAMA: So, it depends on where you are, but I think it's fair to say that the places where we are going to have to do the most work are the places where people feel most cynical about government. The people are mis-appre...I think they're misunderstanding why the demographics in our, in this contest have broken out as they are. Because
John Carson wrote:
You may even be right about that (except for the Hamas drivel). It is hard to be optimistic about a country that elected George Bush twice. Still, I retain some hope.
The first time George Bush ran, he was running on a change platform. His plans for the future sounded reasonable and optimistic. It may, of course, be the case that Oz only elects prime ministers of the first water, and is never fooled into thinking they have a politician of quality, when they have only one who reads speeches well. (He did when he started. A comparison of his speaking style between 2000 and now shows an amazing loss of language skills.)
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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Stop talking, by god. :zzz:
Drawing on my fine command of language, I said nothing.
Should I talk by the devil?
The Digital World. It is an amazing place in which we primitive humans interact. Our flesh made this synthetic machine. You see, we are so smart, we know a lot of stuff. We were grown from cells that came from the universe, which the matter and physics I'm typing in it is amazing how the universe is working. Human life is very amazing. How I experience this sh*t its like wow.
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Should I talk by the devil?
The Digital World. It is an amazing place in which we primitive humans interact. Our flesh made this synthetic machine. You see, we are so smart, we know a lot of stuff. We were grown from cells that came from the universe, which the matter and physics I'm typing in it is amazing how the universe is working. Human life is very amazing. How I experience this sh*t its like wow.
*puts finger to lips* Shhhh...
Drawing on my fine command of language, I said nothing.
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He started drinking fairly young. And yeah it is hereditary.
The Digital World. It is an amazing place in which we primitive humans interact. Our flesh made this synthetic machine. You see, we are so smart, we know a lot of stuff. We were grown from cells that came from the universe, which the matter and physics I'm typing in it is amazing how the universe is working. Human life is very amazing. How I experience this sh*t its like wow.
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Yeah, thats how I got in debt.
The Digital World. It is an amazing place in which we primitive humans interact. Our flesh made this synthetic machine. You see, we are so smart, we know a lot of stuff. We were grown from cells that came from the universe, which the matter and physics I'm typing in it is amazing how the universe is working. Human life is very amazing. How I experience this sh*t its like wow.
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
as to perspective, here's yet another view[^]
You appear to be repeating yourself. I read it and watched it the first time. The fact that they hold some strongly left wing views is not surprising or remarkable. There are quite a lot of people like that, particularly around universities. Most of them manage to play constructive roles in society nevertheless, as Ayers and Dohrn appear to be doing. The fact that Obama has a slight association with them should not be a cause for any alarm --- but of course it will be.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
Oh? he's promised Chris Wallace and Bill O'Reilley an interview and after almost 2 years has finally condescended to be interviewed this Sunday on Wallace's Sunday morning show.
So he has agreed to talk to them --- a bunch of war mongering, torture-loving, Constitution-trashing scum bags. Obama is indeed a statesman.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
he's spent 20 years of Sunday's sitting in achurch pew while a minister spews "Black Liberation Theology" that: 1. Condems his own country for its drug problem 2. Condems his own country for creating and spreading AIDs 3. Condems his own country for the problems black have
Another perspective: http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/nickiekalla/gGBKlk[^]
Mike Gaskey wrote:
Then we have Obama, talking to money men in San Fransico, demeaning blue collar working folk for: 1. clinging to their guns 2. clinging to their religion
As a religious person himself, he was hardly likely to demean people for being religious. His point was simply that they had given up on economic issues and focussed on cultural ones. He may not have been right on this, by the way, but if you read the whole statement in context, then he is clearly sympathetic. See here:
OBAMA: So, it depends on where you are, but I think it's fair to say that the places where we are going to have to do the most work are the places where people feel most cynical about government. The people are mis-appre...I think they're misunderstanding why the demographics in our, in this contest have broken out as they are. Because
John Carson wrote:
I must say, I regard all this talk about elitism and the rest as completely phony.
Most on both sides of the partisan divide in the US suffer from a virulent, incestuous case of schadenfreude. Nobody really cares about Obama's record, or his associations, or his advisors or his politics or any of those things. Nor do they care about Hillary's, or McCain's, and nobody cared about Kerry's or Bush's, either. What they care about is winning or losing, being right or wrong, having power or taking it. You're right, all that talk is phony, for the very simple reason that not one single person spewing it believes it. It's just a means to an end. And anything that can be used or abused to serve those ends is sufficient, without regard to what it is or how destructive it is, without regard to its honesty, its morality, its ethic, or its righteousness. No, the US has decided it prefers to destroy its politicians, even the best ones (not saying Obama is one of these - merely making a point), to the end that by the time any politician makes it into office, they're just as powerless, incompetent, and impotent as the rest of the gas bags we call "representatives." And then they, destroyed in equal measure to their long-cynical colleagues, are equally unable to do even the easiest of tasks, held up as triumphant proof that nobody can beat the system, nobody can change it, and all there is to do is submit, proof that the very act of participating makes you just as dirty, just as corrupt, and just as ugly as they are. Behold the politics of fear, of control through fear, the embodiment of a nation divided, and the worst part is, we're all aware of it, and we couldn't care less to change it.
It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has exceeded our humanity. - Albert Einstein
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John Carson wrote:
John Kerry, a war hero, was made to look bad relative to George Bush, who avoided danger and sometimes didn't even show up for duty.
This was debated to the nth degree and I'll strongly disagree, Kerry was no war hero - but that isn't material at this point. as to perspective, here's yet another view[^]
John Carson wrote:
Obama doesn't shy from meeting with and dealing with people he disagrees with.
Oh? he's promised Chris Wallace and Bill O'Reilley an interview and after almost 2 years has finally condescended to be interviewed this Sunday on Wallace's Sunday morning show. And by the way, as to "distractions and scaremongeing", while it may please you that: he's spent 20 years of Sunday's sitting in achurch pew while a minister spews "Black Liberation Theology" that: 1. Condems his own country for its drug problem 2. Condems his own country for creating and spreading AIDs 3. Condems his own country for the problems black have Then we have Obama, talking to money men in San Fransico, demeaning blue collar working folk for: 1. clinging to their guns 2. clinging to their religion While all the above might make you, Europeans and Hamas happy - it assures he'll not be elected.
Mike - typical white guy. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
And by the way, as to "distractions and scaremongeing", while it may please you that: he's spent 20 years of Sunday's sitting in achurch pew while a minister spews "Black Liberation Theology" that: 1. Condems his own country for its drug problem 2. Condems his own country for creating and spreading AIDs 3. Condems his own country for the problems black have
I'm curious - what evidence have you that Wright said any of those things for 20 years? You've twisted the meaning of his words from just ONE speech - why should I believe you know a damn thing about anything else he's said for the last 20 years?
It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has exceeded our humanity. - Albert Einstein
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John Carson wrote:
You may even be right about that (except for the Hamas drivel). It is hard to be optimistic about a country that elected George Bush twice. Still, I retain some hope.
The first time George Bush ran, he was running on a change platform. His plans for the future sounded reasonable and optimistic. It may, of course, be the case that Oz only elects prime ministers of the first water, and is never fooled into thinking they have a politician of quality, when they have only one who reads speeches well. (He did when he started. A comparison of his speaking style between 2000 and now shows an amazing loss of language skills.)
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
[I can't seem to reply to you, so I am avoiding making any quotations to see if that helps] "First water"? You mean "first order"? I deliberately referred to the fact that George Bush was elected twice, though I think you are drawing a very long bow if you think Bush and Obama are similar. Australia, by the way, kept John Howard in office for 11 years. I found it hard to be optimistic about Australia during that period too. Still, Howard was eventually voted out and I am much more optimistic now (my optimism in fact dated from about a year prior to the election).
John Carson
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John Carson wrote:
I must say, I regard all this talk about elitism and the rest as completely phony.
Most on both sides of the partisan divide in the US suffer from a virulent, incestuous case of schadenfreude. Nobody really cares about Obama's record, or his associations, or his advisors or his politics or any of those things. Nor do they care about Hillary's, or McCain's, and nobody cared about Kerry's or Bush's, either. What they care about is winning or losing, being right or wrong, having power or taking it. You're right, all that talk is phony, for the very simple reason that not one single person spewing it believes it. It's just a means to an end. And anything that can be used or abused to serve those ends is sufficient, without regard to what it is or how destructive it is, without regard to its honesty, its morality, its ethic, or its righteousness. No, the US has decided it prefers to destroy its politicians, even the best ones (not saying Obama is one of these - merely making a point), to the end that by the time any politician makes it into office, they're just as powerless, incompetent, and impotent as the rest of the gas bags we call "representatives." And then they, destroyed in equal measure to their long-cynical colleagues, are equally unable to do even the easiest of tasks, held up as triumphant proof that nobody can beat the system, nobody can change it, and all there is to do is submit, proof that the very act of participating makes you just as dirty, just as corrupt, and just as ugly as they are. Behold the politics of fear, of control through fear, the embodiment of a nation divided, and the worst part is, we're all aware of it, and we couldn't care less to change it.
It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has exceeded our humanity. - Albert Einstein
You make a persuasive case.
John Carson
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DemonPossessed wrote:
I thought you were the one who said you made straight F's in high school?
I didn't do a damn thing while in school, until it was around graduation time then I did just enough to graduate. I actually manipulated the system so I didn't have to do as much as the rest of th students. I got by with sleeping and goofing off. I got the same exact thing the rest of the students got, a diploma.
The Digital World. It is an amazing place in which we primitive humans interact. Our flesh made this synthetic machine. You see, we are so smart, we know a lot of stuff. We were grown from cells that came from the universe, which the matter and physics I'm typing in it is amazing how the universe is working. Human life is very amazing. How I experience this sh*t its like wow.
CataclysmicQuantum wrote:
I got the same exact thing the rest of the students got, a diploma.
But not a decent job. Looks like the system worked!
And when the sunlight hits the olive oil, don't hesitate.
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[I can't seem to reply to you, so I am avoiding making any quotations to see if that helps] "First water"? You mean "first order"? I deliberately referred to the fact that George Bush was elected twice, though I think you are drawing a very long bow if you think Bush and Obama are similar. Australia, by the way, kept John Howard in office for 11 years. I found it hard to be optimistic about Australia during that period too. Still, Howard was eventually voted out and I am much more optimistic now (my optimism in fact dated from about a year prior to the election).
John Carson
John Carson wrote:
"First water"? You mean "first order"?
Pretty much. First water comes from the gem trade. The clarity of diamonds is assessed by their translucence; the more like water, the higher the quality.
John Carson wrote:
I deliberately referred to the fact that George Bush was elected twice, though I think you are drawing a very long bow if you think Bush and Obama are similar.
Unfortunately, the democrats seem to have a propesity for nominating the unelectable. Dukakis, Stevenson, etc. Bush was not so much elected as Kerry was unelected. I think Bush 2000 and Obama as they are packaged for the public are somewhat similar. The U.S.A. really didn't know that much about Bush except that he wasn't Gore and wasn't connected to the Clintons. To me he seemed somewhat of a throwback to Democrats of the forties and fifties - strong on national defense, equally strong on providing a safety net for the less advantaged. Something that has been pointed out on American TV a couple of times is that if the US political parties had been selecting Prime Ministers, Clinton would have been the Democratic choice, and Guliani the Republican choice. But in the U.S. for better or worse, the electorate has some say in the selection process.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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You make a persuasive case.
John Carson
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CataclysmicQuantum wrote:
I don't have time to educate you.
Time / skill. Whatever. It's ok, i didn't expect any such thing from you.
Citizen 20.1.01
'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master - that's all.'
I was wondering how you were going to come back from his deep, well thought out and insightful reply, which obviously made a mockery of everything you'd said to that point and demolished it under the weight of his irrefutable logic.....
Christian Graus Please read this if you don't understand the answer I've given you "also I don't think "TranslateOneToTwoBillion OneHundredAndFortySevenMillion FourHundredAndEightyThreeThousand SixHundredAndFortySeven()" is a very good choice for a function name" - SpacixOne ( offering help to someone who really needed it ) ( spaces added for the benefit of people running at < 1280x1024 )
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John Carson wrote:
You make a persuasive case.
No he doesn't. There are no facts in his rant, only opinions - which he's entitled to, as long as no-one mistakes them for facts.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Oakman wrote:
No he doesn't. There are no facts in his rant, only opinions - which he's entitled to, as long as no-one mistakes them for facts.
Even without supporting facts, opinions can be persuasive if the claims they make resonate with the reader by articulating what the reader may already sense (inarticulately) to be true. They certainly resonated with me. A case in point and an actual fact: Hillary Clinton made a big thing out of trying to embarrass Obama about the the fact that Farrakhan had endorsed him and that Wright had said some positive things about Farrakan. Was this because Clinton actually believes this is an issue and actually gives a damn about it? It seems not. During the Pennsylvania primary, Clinton drew heavily on the support of Governor Ed Rendell. Now read what Rendell had to say about Farrakhan (link below has the video).
"I would like to thank the Nation of Islam here in Philadelphia," Rendell said to the crowd, as Farrakhan looked on approvingly. "To thank you for what you stand for and what you stand for all the good it does to so many people in Philadelphia. And if there is anybody out here... who doesn't know, this is a faith that has as its principles, the family. This is a faith that doesn't just talk about family values, it lives family values. This is a faith where men respect their women and children and they manifest that faith by staying in the home with them. This is a faith that doesn't just talk about being against drugs but is out there every single day and night fighting against drugs. This is a faith that just doesn't talk about the value of education, it imbues in their children and schools that education is the way to opportunity."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/21/ed-rendell-clinton-surrog_n_97784.html[^]
John Carson
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Shog9 wrote:
It's ok, i didn't expect any such thing from you.
Go play with your computer, and think of the wonderful world of taxes and oppression from blacks. Of course you wont be thinking about it like that, it will be all about diversity and tolerance. You will feel so great giving up your paycheck and freedom in the name protecting the children from the evil CO2 molecule that will destroy mankind, and promoting the oppression of white people.
The Digital World. It is an amazing place in which we primitive humans interact. Our flesh made this synthetic machine. You see, we are so smart, we know a lot of stuff. We were grown from cells that came from the universe, which the matter and physics I'm typing in it is amazing how the universe is working. Human life is very amazing. How I experience this sh*t its like wow.
Wow - you really ARE stupid. It's not uncommon for people who fail at life, to then blame minorities, I mean, people who can't hold down a job or get laid are surely the people with enough residual bitterness at their own failings to be ripe for the picking from hate groups looking to give such people an external 'them' to blame for all their self made problems. Yeah, black people are oppressing you. Give me a break.
Christian Graus Please read this if you don't understand the answer I've given you "also I don't think "TranslateOneToTwoBillion OneHundredAndFortySevenMillion FourHundredAndEightyThreeThousand SixHundredAndFortySeven()" is a very good choice for a function name" - SpacixOne ( offering help to someone who really needed it ) ( spaces added for the benefit of people running at < 1280x1024 )
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John Carson wrote:
"First water"? You mean "first order"?
Pretty much. First water comes from the gem trade. The clarity of diamonds is assessed by their translucence; the more like water, the higher the quality.
John Carson wrote:
I deliberately referred to the fact that George Bush was elected twice, though I think you are drawing a very long bow if you think Bush and Obama are similar.
Unfortunately, the democrats seem to have a propesity for nominating the unelectable. Dukakis, Stevenson, etc. Bush was not so much elected as Kerry was unelected. I think Bush 2000 and Obama as they are packaged for the public are somewhat similar. The U.S.A. really didn't know that much about Bush except that he wasn't Gore and wasn't connected to the Clintons. To me he seemed somewhat of a throwback to Democrats of the forties and fifties - strong on national defense, equally strong on providing a safety net for the less advantaged. Something that has been pointed out on American TV a couple of times is that if the US political parties had been selecting Prime Ministers, Clinton would have been the Democratic choice, and Guliani the Republican choice. But in the U.S. for better or worse, the electorate has some say in the selection process.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Oakman wrote:
First water comes from the gem trade. The clarity of diamonds is assessed by their translucence; the more like water, the higher the quality.
Ah. I've learned something.
Oakman wrote:
Unfortunately, the democrats seem to have a propesity for nominating the unelectable. Dukakis, Stevenson, etc. Bush was not so much elected as Kerry was unelected.
I think most of that comes from the fact that the political discourse is degraded and that personality-based non-issues dominate, with the Republicans being experts at taking advantage of this (having been mainly responsible for engineering it). A case in point was the huge fuss that was made over Dukakis's response to a question about what he would do if his wife was raped and murdered. Sensible people recognise that the immediate emotional response to a serious crime by immediate family is generally to want to inflict violence on the suspected perpetrator, but that a more temperate response is required from public officials. However, the fact that a candidate for the highest public office in the land did not respond emotionally but instead discussed the issue dispassionately was held against him. (You may or may not agree with his position on capital punishment, but he was right to treat the issue as a public policy one, not as an occasion to indulge his emotions.) Electing a President should be treated differently from choosing a friend. Kerry was a flawed candidate, but should have been more electable than Bush.
John Carson
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
And by the way, as to "distractions and scaremongeing", while it may please you that: he's spent 20 years of Sunday's sitting in achurch pew while a minister spews "Black Liberation Theology" that: 1. Condems his own country for its drug problem 2. Condems his own country for creating and spreading AIDs 3. Condems his own country for the problems black have
I'm curious - what evidence have you that Wright said any of those things for 20 years? You've twisted the meaning of his words from just ONE speech - why should I believe you know a damn thing about anything else he's said for the last 20 years?
It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has exceeded our humanity. - Albert Einstein
Patrick S wrote:
I'm curious - what evidence have you that Wright said any of those things for 20 years? You've twisted the meaning of his words from just ONE speech
Twisted? how in the holy fuck can I twist his comments, those are literal quotes.
Patrick S wrote:
why should I believe you know a damn thing about anything else he's said for the last 20 years?
His ministry is founded on "Black lLiberation Theology" - it would be unusual in the extreme for him to say anything else. And by the way, the speeches (yes, that is plural) that have made their way to cable news shows ARE ON DVDs PURCHASED FROM HIS CHURCH.
Mike - typical white guy. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.