Evolution works in mysterious ways

[Ilion]

Oakman wrote:

Remember, when you eat crackers in bed, you wake up with crumbs

[Oakman]

Matthew Faithfull wrote:

but there is nothing false in it as there is nothing false in its author

You have, of course, read it in the original Aramaic?

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

[Oakman]

Gee now that you have shown up, someone is running around voting me all ones - Does it help you feel like you're a real man? Those exhibiting a superiority complex commonly project their feelings of inferiority onto others they perceive as beneath them, possibly for the same reasons they themselves may have been ostracized, i.e. viewing most, possibly all others as "ugly" or "stupid", and beneath oneself. Behaviors related to this mechanism may include an exaggeratedly positive opinion of one’s worth and abilities, unrealistically high expectations in goals and achievements for oneself and others, the persistent attempt to correct others regardless of whether they are factually correct or not, vanity, extravagant style in dressing (with intent of drawing attention), excessive need for competition, pride, sentimentalism and affected exaltation, snobbishness, and a tendency to try to discredit others' opinions, as well as forcefulness and hostility aimed at dominating those he has convinced himself are weaker or less important.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

[Matthew Faithfull]

Fisticuffs wrote:

Also, while most mutations may be deleterious over enough time (as has been demonstrated) beneficial mutations can occur and accumulate after selection.

This is the key point and why you need to understand some mathematics. Lets break it down. "most mutations may be deleterious" These will accumulate until they become fatal, i.e. 100% negative for passing on of genes. "Beneficial mutations can occur and accumulate after selection" These will accumulate faster until they take over the population but only if they actually confer selective advantage. If the probability of the mutation being deleterious is too high deleterious mutations will always swamp beneficial ones regardless of selective advantage especially as they will accumulate in those survivors which have the selective advantage until they cause equal selective disadvantage. I hope you can see the problem. Only mutations which confer immediate benefit actaully confer any selective advantage and that is only probabalistic. These cannot survive long enough to build into complex features because they are swamped by the higher probability deleterious mutations that cannot be avoided in each generation. The only way to get a complex feature is for it to slip through by chance. When you work out the probability of this actually occuring it is less than that of spontaneous generation. :laugh: More time does not help you, only more mutations per generation could do that, it just makes things worse. Mathematics has a thing called proof by induction which can be used to show that if your species doesn't evolve over n generations then it doesn't evolve over 2n either. If it de-evolves over n generations then it's going to be extinct in some multiple of n. Interestingly the 'more mutations per generation' model has been tried and found to be even worse, ie, more destructive. Again simple math tells you if more at once is bad then more generations of a little is also bad. It's the 'if you're in a hole stop digging' principle. I only wish evolutionists would get it and stop wasting their time.

"The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage." Thucydides (B.C. 460-400)

[Lost User]

Matthew Faithfull wrote:

and a 1000 year life span.

Stop... you're killing me. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[Matthew Faithfull]

Same places you learned about Adam and Eve and about neanderthals ( which probably never existed as anything other than a tribal variation of humans ). Appears we understood what we were hearing to a differing degree. :)

"The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage." Thucydides (B.C. 460-400)

[Matthew Faithfull]

So you'd prefer to listen to someone who doesn't actually believe anything and has no moral restraint against telling you a pack of lies than to someone who holds a consistent set of beliefs including a moral imperative to tell you the truth, interesting. Your choice of course.

"The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage." Thucydides (B.C. 460-400)

[Matthew Faithfull]

No, not a god but the one and only true and living God who is no fantasy. Isn't it fortunate for you that despite your unbelief he believes in you. After all you might have a problem with your continued existence otherwise :laugh:

"The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage." Thucydides (B.C. 460-400)

[Lost User]

Matthew Faithfull wrote:

These will accumulate until they become fatal, i.e. 100% negative for passing on of genes.

Wrong.

Matthew Faithfull wrote:

Only mutations which confer immediate benefit actaully confer any selective advantage and that is only probabalistic.

Wrong - there are mutations that are neutral, then a subsequent mutation can result in a different selectable phenotype. See examples in RNA folding.

Matthew Faithfull wrote:

If the probability of the mutation being deleterious is too high deleterious mutations will always swamp beneficial ones regardless of selective advantage

What?!?!?! Deleterious phenotypes are outcompeted by definition. How can something that's deleterious outcompete something that's beneficial? What you're saying is false by definition. The bad mutations disappear. The good ones don't. That's not only the fundamental concept of evolution, that's just common sense. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

Matthew Faithfull wrote:

More time does not help you

Actually, yes it does.

Matthew Faithfull wrote:

I only wish evolutionists would get it and stop wasting their time.

Why don't you go write a paper on it, genius?

- F

[Matthew Faithfull]

No, I have not, and why would that make the slightest difference?:~

"The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage." Thucydides (B.C. 460-400)

[leckey 0]

No, I prefer someone who is unbiased.

CP Offenders: Over 50 offenders and growing! Current rant: "Me thinks CP needs an application process!" http://craptasticnation.blogspot.com/[^]

[CataclysmicQuantum]

Your mom? Do you like smelly raw fish?

The Digital World. It is an amazing place in which we primitive humans interact. Our flesh made this synthetic machine. You see, we are so smart, we know a lot of stuff. We were grown from cells that came from the universe, which the matter and physics I'm typing in it is amazing how the universe is working. Human life is very amazing. How I experience this sh*t its like wow.

[Lost User]

Matthew Faithfull wrote:

Another, proof by blindness, double negative.

You should stop changing your mind - I thought you said the principle of science was falsifiability, not proof. Go get an education.

- F

[CataclysmicQuantum]

Aren't programmers suppose to be smart? What happened did mother shake you as a baby?

The Digital World. It is an amazing place in which we primitive humans interact. Our flesh made this synthetic machine. You see, we are so smart, we know a lot of stuff. We were grown from cells that came from the universe, which the matter and physics I'm typing in it is amazing how the universe is working. Human life is very amazing. How I experience this sh*t its like wow.

[Oakman]

Matthew Faithfull wrote:

Same places you learned about Adam and Eve and about neanderthals

Did they pray over you until you got it right?

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

[Matthew Faithfull]

Ah, :-O got the wrong limit theory, it's the one at the root of calculus that I was thinking of. Still neither of these teeth pullingly overwritten statements of tautology makes a dint in what I've said. If anything the LLN backs me up, not that I'd want to rely too heavily on the square root of 0. I'm on much safer ground with a conceptual argument I reckon, but thanks all the same.

"The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage." Thucydides (B.C. 460-400)

[Oakman]

Matthew Faithfull wrote:

why would that make the slightest difference

Well the translations don't always agree with each other and maybe it's only the size of my non-neaderthal brain, but I have trouble understanding how all of them can be right. You aren't one of these guys who thinks that God spoke Elizabethan English, are you?

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

[Matthew Faithfull]

Fisticuffs wrote:

I thought you said the principle of science was falsifiability

Exactly my point, I'm, glad you're catching on. None of the double negatives you presented is capabale of falsifying anything any more than Nelson putting the telescope to his blind eye meant there weren't any ships. I have an education thanks, do you need to borrow it?

"The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage." Thucydides (B.C. 460-400)

[Lost User]

Matthew Faithfull wrote:

Can constitute information loss, has a high probability of disrupting any exisitng gene function.

What's the probability? Show your work.

- F

[Lost User]

Matthew Faithfull wrote:

None of the double negatives you presented is capabale of falsifying anything

Sure they are - because they are ways of falsifying the theory of evolution, that have been tested, that have failed to disprove the theory. Therefore, evolution has not been disproven. Therefore, it remains the best explanation of diversity of life and a highly useful tool to all scientific and medical professionals.

- F