Acoustic Alchemy
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Much of what you say is true, and if only it were that simple. Musicians bitch and wring their hands in part because (much like software developers) they don't want to be bothered with "all that business stuff." However, that reasoning pales in comparison with the true nature of the problem: the incredibly draconian contracts that you're forced to sign in order to get a record contract. I left mine sitting unsigned on a table in NY during the 80s. People see the rare rich rock star and wonder how they can complain about money. In truth, a record contract is an opportunity to go $500k to $1 mil in debt. The labels rack up incredible expenses in the studio, promotion, videos, etc. and charge it all to the musicians. The overwhelming majority (I'd guess 98%) of recording musicians live off the live performances and see little if any profit from record sales - the meager (and I do mean meager) percentage they earn from sales goes to offset the aforementioned debt. In short, the labels own you. So why isn't there a revolution now that we can take it to the people? There is, it's just moving slowly. The problem lies in the inherent laziness of people. Radio and TV is push technology, computers are pull. You can sit passively, flip on a box, and The Machine brings you the music (pre-selected, of course, i.e. telling you what you like - you don't think the "top 40" has anything to do with listener call in requests, do you?). You can do it in a car, you can do it in your home, you can do it in a box, you can do it with a fox. With the Internet, you have to actively search for the music. Then, you have to find a way to get it to where you want to listen to it. The iPod has helped make digital music more moble, but in my car I still reach for the built in stereo. Even so, you have to expend effort to seek out and find all this music on the web. Most people are too lazy. From the musician side of the fence, even those who are motivated and tech savvy (they do exist) have an incredibly difficult job in promoting their music. It's a huge, world wide haystack out there. The needle is the same size. And if by chance someone does discover the recorded songs of Joe and his Garage Buddies' Band (which may very well be incredibly good music and recorded in a high quality manner thanks to modern software), they can still easily email the file they paid for to 1,000,000 of their close, personal Torrent friends.
John C wrote:
A good musician could make a killing in this day an
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Perhaps it's time for a musicians co-op of some kind who can handle all the business end of things.
"The great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do." - Walter Bagehot
I think there's a ton of money to be made providing a service like this to musicians (and I mean service in the most literal of manners, i.e. "to serve"). It's the audio equivalent of the next Killer App. However, before that can happen and succeed there are hard problems to be solved, i.e. the aforementioned piracy and promotion issues. Each is equal in weight to the long term success of the New Music Business. If you ever figure out truly workable solutions to these issues, count me in! :-D
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalUSA.com
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I suspect we'll never agree in this area (and I also suspect you never made a living as a musician), so I'll spare everyone the obligatory equestrian flogging.
Shog9 wrote:
Pure, unbalanced, unrestrained, cynical, greed.
Say, you wouldn't mind sending me the paychecks you get from your employer each week from writing code, would you? I mean, I could really have fun with that money, and I don't see any reason at all that you should insist on being paid for something that you clearly enjoy doing. In fact, I'd go so far as to characterize your demand for payment as little more than pure, unbalanced, unrestrained, cynical, greed. :-D
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalUSA.com
Christopher Duncan wrote:
Say, you wouldn't mind sending me the paychecks you get from your employer each week from writing code, would you
:shrug: I don't get paid for the code i write. I get paid for my ability to write code. A fine distinction, perhaps... and i certainly don't disrespect or begrudge those who do receive compensation according to the usage of their code... but that's not me. I didn't mean to come off as critical of professional musicians. I'm sorry you took it that way. You may well be skeptical of my attitude on this, or see me as disingenuous - especially given that i neither play guitar nor write tabs. I won't go into exactly how i became interested in this, but please allow me an attempt to explain my attitude. Believe it or not, the insane amounts of time i spend here aren't rooted in some hope of making money, or a desire to take other's work and pass it off as my own. For over half of my life now, reading and writing code has been one of my few consistent pleasures, with mailing lists, newsgroups, and sites such as this providing something of a haven. Back when i read the tabulature newsgroups and browsed OLGA, they (*ahem*) struck a chord - it seemed to me as though their citizens too were seeking a place where they might analyzie and discuss that which they loved. At the time, i was still very much an amature, both in the areas of programming (which i pursued) and in music (which i soon abandoned), and such communities were what brought me into the 'Net, pursuading me that it was permissable - or at least, possible - to engage in something for the shear joy of it. And i've no illusion that this attitude is popular or respected, here or anywhere else. Indeed, i recognize that there's a skepticism bordering on open hostility, and a belief that anyone expressing such feelings is merely attempting to manipulate others, trying to get their guard down in order to get something - code, advice - for free. I can't argue with that. It's hard to look at the forums and not see a vast culture of taking without giving, of desiring reward without effort. And there's no way i can prove that i don't fall into the same category, not even to myself. So take it as you will; for me, i'll still believe that even if the majority of those downloading code... or tabs... care nothing for the craft, a small number of those who read and write them do. And i'll respect that, even as i make a living
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Christopher Duncan wrote:
Say, you wouldn't mind sending me the paychecks you get from your employer each week from writing code, would you
:shrug: I don't get paid for the code i write. I get paid for my ability to write code. A fine distinction, perhaps... and i certainly don't disrespect or begrudge those who do receive compensation according to the usage of their code... but that's not me. I didn't mean to come off as critical of professional musicians. I'm sorry you took it that way. You may well be skeptical of my attitude on this, or see me as disingenuous - especially given that i neither play guitar nor write tabs. I won't go into exactly how i became interested in this, but please allow me an attempt to explain my attitude. Believe it or not, the insane amounts of time i spend here aren't rooted in some hope of making money, or a desire to take other's work and pass it off as my own. For over half of my life now, reading and writing code has been one of my few consistent pleasures, with mailing lists, newsgroups, and sites such as this providing something of a haven. Back when i read the tabulature newsgroups and browsed OLGA, they (*ahem*) struck a chord - it seemed to me as though their citizens too were seeking a place where they might analyzie and discuss that which they loved. At the time, i was still very much an amature, both in the areas of programming (which i pursued) and in music (which i soon abandoned), and such communities were what brought me into the 'Net, pursuading me that it was permissable - or at least, possible - to engage in something for the shear joy of it. And i've no illusion that this attitude is popular or respected, here or anywhere else. Indeed, i recognize that there's a skepticism bordering on open hostility, and a belief that anyone expressing such feelings is merely attempting to manipulate others, trying to get their guard down in order to get something - code, advice - for free. I can't argue with that. It's hard to look at the forums and not see a vast culture of taking without giving, of desiring reward without effort. And there's no way i can prove that i don't fall into the same category, not even to myself. So take it as you will; for me, i'll still believe that even if the majority of those downloading code... or tabs... care nothing for the craft, a small number of those who read and write them do. And i'll respect that, even as i make a living
Shog9 wrote:
I didn't mean to come off as critical of professional musicians. I'm sorry you took it that way.
I'm just yanking your chain, man. If you can't give your friends a hard time, what's the point of having 'em? My initial comments about agreeing to disagree were intended to be a gesture of respect toward your own views even though I don't share them. Time for me to go back to communications school. :-D Your comments about coding being a consistent pleasure mirrors that of the average musician. The difference is that you can actually make a decent living in software while the prospects are very, very slim in music. Ultimately, though, both groups are simply trying to make a living doing what they enjoy. You don't dig ditches all day and then come home to code after work. You (and I) were lucky enough to find a way to pay the bills doing something we enjoy. And that's really all the average musician wants. I think many people simply accept what's become the default attitude (musicians don't deserve compensation, all music should be free) without really doing their own thinking. They never stop to think how they would react if it were their livelihood instead of some stranger's. If they were expected to show up for work and not get paid, they'd have a fit, but somehow it's okay for musicians to be treated that way. If I have a voice but don't speak out on behalf of my brothers, then what manner of man am I? :)
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalUSA.com
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Shog9 wrote:
I didn't mean to come off as critical of professional musicians. I'm sorry you took it that way.
I'm just yanking your chain, man. If you can't give your friends a hard time, what's the point of having 'em? My initial comments about agreeing to disagree were intended to be a gesture of respect toward your own views even though I don't share them. Time for me to go back to communications school. :-D Your comments about coding being a consistent pleasure mirrors that of the average musician. The difference is that you can actually make a decent living in software while the prospects are very, very slim in music. Ultimately, though, both groups are simply trying to make a living doing what they enjoy. You don't dig ditches all day and then come home to code after work. You (and I) were lucky enough to find a way to pay the bills doing something we enjoy. And that's really all the average musician wants. I think many people simply accept what's become the default attitude (musicians don't deserve compensation, all music should be free) without really doing their own thinking. They never stop to think how they would react if it were their livelihood instead of some stranger's. If they were expected to show up for work and not get paid, they'd have a fit, but somehow it's okay for musicians to be treated that way. If I have a voice but don't speak out on behalf of my brothers, then what manner of man am I? :)
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalUSA.com
Christopher Duncan wrote:
Your comments about coding being a consistent pleasure mirrors that of the average musician. The difference is that you can actually make a decent living in software while the prospects are very, very slim in music.
I've no doubt that's true, but surely there's a bit more competition for the work when it comes to music? I mean... lots of kids say they want to write video games, but in my experience a lot more of them actually end up playing guitars than ever bother to pick up a compiler. I've no idea how much of this actually translates directly into picking it as a career choice once adolescence is over, but i do know that the musicians attracted a lot more, um, female support than i ever did with my graphics and bad tracker melodies. If i'd had any real talent then i can't say that wouldn't have affected my choices...
Christopher Duncan wrote:
Ultimately, though, both groups are simply trying to make a living doing what they enjoy. You don't dig ditches all day and then come home to code after work.
...anymore... ;)
Christopher Duncan wrote:
I think many people simply accept what's become the default attitude (musicians don't deserve compensation, all music should be free) without really doing their own thinking.
I agree. I'll admit, i was a devoted Napster user back in the day, but i also purchased a lot of recorded music - a lot of which i would never have heard without the free download. That may sound like a line, but since i stopped downloading music i've also seriously cut down on buying music - i went from at least a CD a week to one, maybe two a year; i just don't run into much stuff i care about anymore. I do still try to hit local events though, which in some ways is a lot more rewarding - i don't think i could ever afford the hardware to even come close to reproducing the experience of sitting in on a pipe organ - brass quartet collaboration. The times they are a changin'...
Christopher Duncan wrote:
If I have a voice but don't speak out on behalf of my brothers, then what manner of man am I?
:) Thanks for the discussion. Frankly, it's st
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Christopher Duncan wrote:
Your comments about coding being a consistent pleasure mirrors that of the average musician. The difference is that you can actually make a decent living in software while the prospects are very, very slim in music.
I've no doubt that's true, but surely there's a bit more competition for the work when it comes to music? I mean... lots of kids say they want to write video games, but in my experience a lot more of them actually end up playing guitars than ever bother to pick up a compiler. I've no idea how much of this actually translates directly into picking it as a career choice once adolescence is over, but i do know that the musicians attracted a lot more, um, female support than i ever did with my graphics and bad tracker melodies. If i'd had any real talent then i can't say that wouldn't have affected my choices...
Christopher Duncan wrote:
Ultimately, though, both groups are simply trying to make a living doing what they enjoy. You don't dig ditches all day and then come home to code after work.
...anymore... ;)
Christopher Duncan wrote:
I think many people simply accept what's become the default attitude (musicians don't deserve compensation, all music should be free) without really doing their own thinking.
I agree. I'll admit, i was a devoted Napster user back in the day, but i also purchased a lot of recorded music - a lot of which i would never have heard without the free download. That may sound like a line, but since i stopped downloading music i've also seriously cut down on buying music - i went from at least a CD a week to one, maybe two a year; i just don't run into much stuff i care about anymore. I do still try to hit local events though, which in some ways is a lot more rewarding - i don't think i could ever afford the hardware to even come close to reproducing the experience of sitting in on a pipe organ - brass quartet collaboration. The times they are a changin'...
Christopher Duncan wrote:
If I have a voice but don't speak out on behalf of my brothers, then what manner of man am I?
:) Thanks for the discussion. Frankly, it's st
I dug a few ditches myself. A highly overrated experience.
Shog9 wrote:
i also purchased a lot of recorded music - a lot of which i would never have heard without the free download.
I really believe there's an opportunity in music promotion if we can ever figure out how to make it easier to bring new music to the people who are used to passive delivery systems like radio. There's tons and tons of good stuff out there, but it's almost impossible to find. The pirate download sites really did have a value in terms of exposing people to bands they wouldn't otherwise have known about, but that value was largely offset by the massive amounts of unpaid downloads. If we can ever figure out a way to harness the benefits without giving away the farm, it'll be the end of the traditional music business and widely celebrated by musicians everywhere.
Shog9 wrote:
Thanks for the discussion. Frankly, it's stuff like this that makes CP more than just a programming site...
Without a doubt! :)
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalUSA.com
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Did you try taborama?
"Neque porro quisquam est qui dolorem ipsum quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit..." "There is no one who loves pain itself, who seeks after it and wants to have it, simply because it is pain..."
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There was a time when guitar tab sites flourished on the internet and you could find just about anything worth finding, hundreds of thousands of tabs and more new ones all the time. Then the copyright holders started cracking down claiming it was an infringement and they managed to get the best sites shut down or stripped of their former glory. If anyone with any money had fought it I'm sure they would have won, I don't see how you can really enforce a copyright against a guitar tab some guy came up with in his bedroom.
"The great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do." - Walter Bagehot
Yeah I've heard about this. One of the main sites affected was http://www.power-tab.net/[^]. Although they provide software for composing and reading musical notes, at that time they also provide pre-composed tabletures. Now the site focuses more on the software rather than the tabs. Come to think of it I don't think they hold any tabs for downloading anymore...but it is a nice little program to tinkle with :laugh:
Aim small, miss small
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Try this: http://www.acoustic-alchemy.net/contacts.html[^] At the bottom of the page is a link for photos and questions. You might ask the band this question and see where they point you. Who knows, they might turn out to be nice guys who will help you. :)
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalUSA.com
Acoustic Alchemy is originally a father and son tandem. I should probably project a lonely boy with no dad looking for a hobby that could possibly fulfill my hidden destiny :cool:. Heh who knows they might actually be nice guys as you say...they look kinda nice to me in their profile pics ;P
Aim small, miss small
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I dug a few ditches myself. A highly overrated experience.
Shog9 wrote:
i also purchased a lot of recorded music - a lot of which i would never have heard without the free download.
I really believe there's an opportunity in music promotion if we can ever figure out how to make it easier to bring new music to the people who are used to passive delivery systems like radio. There's tons and tons of good stuff out there, but it's almost impossible to find. The pirate download sites really did have a value in terms of exposing people to bands they wouldn't otherwise have known about, but that value was largely offset by the massive amounts of unpaid downloads. If we can ever figure out a way to harness the benefits without giving away the farm, it'll be the end of the traditional music business and widely celebrated by musicians everywhere.
Shog9 wrote:
Thanks for the discussion. Frankly, it's stuff like this that makes CP more than just a programming site...
Without a doubt! :)
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalUSA.com