YAVR - Yet Another Vista Rant
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I know you're all tired of Vista rants, but this is getting outright ridiculous. I spent last couple of days reorganizing my files and moving them between network locations, Vista can't even do that properly. Day 1. I have 23 files in a network directory, status bar in explorer shows 23. Two of them are duplicates, I delete one of the duplicates, it goes away from the list. The status bar still shows 23 files. I'm a little confused because I just deleted a file, it went away, the status bar should reflect that. So I manually select all files in a folder, status bar shows 22 files. I click on an empty space in explorer pane, the status bar shows 23 again. F5 and everything goes back to normal. Well, at least F5 still works. Day 2. I select a bunch of files to move from one network location to another. Vista completes the move. The original folder still has all the files. At this point I'm scratching my head because I honestly thought I was moving files. Oh well, maybe I was mistaken and accidentally copied files instead. So I try to delete files in the original location. Sorry, can't do that because files do not exist. What? Burned by my previous experiences I do F5 again, no files in original location. This is getting outright ridiculous. What good is the OS for if I can't even reliably manage my files? I don't want to spend my time wondering if the file was really copied or moved, if I can trust explorer if the file is really there or not. I've been working with Vista for the past couple of months trying to trick myself into liking it, but it just won't cooperate. I've accepted many of Vista's quirks and deficiencies, but this is just plain stupid.
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I know you're all tired of Vista rants, but this is getting outright ridiculous. I spent last couple of days reorganizing my files and moving them between network locations, Vista can't even do that properly. Day 1. I have 23 files in a network directory, status bar in explorer shows 23. Two of them are duplicates, I delete one of the duplicates, it goes away from the list. The status bar still shows 23 files. I'm a little confused because I just deleted a file, it went away, the status bar should reflect that. So I manually select all files in a folder, status bar shows 22 files. I click on an empty space in explorer pane, the status bar shows 23 again. F5 and everything goes back to normal. Well, at least F5 still works. Day 2. I select a bunch of files to move from one network location to another. Vista completes the move. The original folder still has all the files. At this point I'm scratching my head because I honestly thought I was moving files. Oh well, maybe I was mistaken and accidentally copied files instead. So I try to delete files in the original location. Sorry, can't do that because files do not exist. What? Burned by my previous experiences I do F5 again, no files in original location. This is getting outright ridiculous. What good is the OS for if I can't even reliably manage my files? I don't want to spend my time wondering if the file was really copied or moved, if I can trust explorer if the file is really there or not. I've been working with Vista for the past couple of months trying to trick myself into liking it, but it just won't cooperate. I've accepted many of Vista's quirks and deficiencies, but this is just plain stupid.
The MacOS "Finder" had similar issues when OS/X was first released. It's simply growing pains, as a new generation of programmers learn how to use the various network and filesystem APIs. Just think - in another six years, you'll be watching Vista on TV, played by the guy from your local video store!
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You're right. These facts that you've laid out totally contradict the wild ramblings that I pulled off the back of cornflakes packets.
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I know you're all tired of Vista rants, but this is getting outright ridiculous. I spent last couple of days reorganizing my files and moving them between network locations, Vista can't even do that properly. Day 1. I have 23 files in a network directory, status bar in explorer shows 23. Two of them are duplicates, I delete one of the duplicates, it goes away from the list. The status bar still shows 23 files. I'm a little confused because I just deleted a file, it went away, the status bar should reflect that. So I manually select all files in a folder, status bar shows 22 files. I click on an empty space in explorer pane, the status bar shows 23 again. F5 and everything goes back to normal. Well, at least F5 still works. Day 2. I select a bunch of files to move from one network location to another. Vista completes the move. The original folder still has all the files. At this point I'm scratching my head because I honestly thought I was moving files. Oh well, maybe I was mistaken and accidentally copied files instead. So I try to delete files in the original location. Sorry, can't do that because files do not exist. What? Burned by my previous experiences I do F5 again, no files in original location. This is getting outright ridiculous. What good is the OS for if I can't even reliably manage my files? I don't want to spend my time wondering if the file was really copied or moved, if I can trust explorer if the file is really there or not. I've been working with Vista for the past couple of months trying to trick myself into liking it, but it just won't cooperate. I've accepted many of Vista's quirks and deficiencies, but this is just plain stupid.
I am certainly not going to dispute anything you've stated here; the OS should most certainly handle these most basic of operations, or perhaps a better way of stating that is: Explorer should be able to handle these most basic of operations, right? Because it's really Explorer that's the problem, not necessarily the OS itself. But I digress ... I am going to make a suggestion to you, one I've been known to make many-times over to others in this community: Go get yourself a copy of Total Commander[^] and move on with life. You'll be happy you did.
:..::. Douglas H. Troy ::..
Bad Astronomy |VCF|wxWidgets|WTL -
I am certainly not going to dispute anything you've stated here; the OS should most certainly handle these most basic of operations, or perhaps a better way of stating that is: Explorer should be able to handle these most basic of operations, right? Because it's really Explorer that's the problem, not necessarily the OS itself. But I digress ... I am going to make a suggestion to you, one I've been known to make many-times over to others in this community: Go get yourself a copy of Total Commander[^] and move on with life. You'll be happy you did.
:..::. Douglas H. Troy ::..
Bad Astronomy |VCF|wxWidgets|WTLDouglas Troy wrote:
Go get yourself a copy of Total Commander[^] and move on with life.
Say... I spend most days using really, really slow network drives. And it frustrates me how Explorer will lock up for long periods of time while querying the remote server. Have you had any experience using TC with such connections?
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You're right. These facts that you've laid out totally contradict the wild ramblings that I pulled off the back of cornflakes packets.
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Douglas Troy wrote:
Go get yourself a copy of Total Commander[^] and move on with life.
Say... I spend most days using really, really slow network drives. And it frustrates me how Explorer will lock up for long periods of time while querying the remote server. Have you had any experience using TC with such connections?
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You're right. These facts that you've laid out totally contradict the wild ramblings that I pulled off the back of cornflakes packets.
Sadly, TC does have this problem from time-to-time as well; however, having said that, I will tell you, TC does seem to handle round-trips to network drives quicker than Explorer. Additionally, if the network drive is off-line, TC will time out much faster than Explorer does, in making that determination. In either case, however, you're not going to totally escape that issue for good. If you have a good idea on how TC could handle this kind of issue, suggest it to Ghisler, he does listen.
:..::. Douglas H. Troy ::..
Bad Astronomy |VCF|wxWidgets|WTL -
I know you're all tired of Vista rants, but this is getting outright ridiculous. I spent last couple of days reorganizing my files and moving them between network locations, Vista can't even do that properly. Day 1. I have 23 files in a network directory, status bar in explorer shows 23. Two of them are duplicates, I delete one of the duplicates, it goes away from the list. The status bar still shows 23 files. I'm a little confused because I just deleted a file, it went away, the status bar should reflect that. So I manually select all files in a folder, status bar shows 22 files. I click on an empty space in explorer pane, the status bar shows 23 again. F5 and everything goes back to normal. Well, at least F5 still works. Day 2. I select a bunch of files to move from one network location to another. Vista completes the move. The original folder still has all the files. At this point I'm scratching my head because I honestly thought I was moving files. Oh well, maybe I was mistaken and accidentally copied files instead. So I try to delete files in the original location. Sorry, can't do that because files do not exist. What? Burned by my previous experiences I do F5 again, no files in original location. This is getting outright ridiculous. What good is the OS for if I can't even reliably manage my files? I don't want to spend my time wondering if the file was really copied or moved, if I can trust explorer if the file is really there or not. I've been working with Vista for the past couple of months trying to trick myself into liking it, but it just won't cooperate. I've accepted many of Vista's quirks and deficiencies, but this is just plain stupid.
All OS's are starting to go to Shadow Copies... the problem is how the common person handles file problems. We have a gentleman here on post who regularly likes to "clean" his system... anything he does not recognize immediately, he deletes. When his system stops working he calls us. "Why is RAGE not working?" "I don't know, did you just clean your system again?" "Yes, but that is irrelevant." "What did you delete?".... etc. etc. The Trashcan method was orignally developed to handle just this purpose, and although it worked well, it doesn't work well at the same time since the person just empties the trashcan and he is screwed. Shadow copies deletes the file, but leaves the file there. Depending on how you set up your viewing, you can actually see these, normally you do not want to. They occupy the disk space per se, and are only overwritten when you run out of room, or you exceed the settings for Shadow copy size allocated in your Vista disk settings. You can right click on a directory, or file and restore it to its state days or weeks back depending on your shadow copy capability. Part of the Vista "restore" fix on the CD is to go in and inspect for shadow copies of files recently deleted that might have caused the boot error that is being prevented. obviously it can be confusing, just as the trashcan was confusing when it first was added. Ancient discussion: "Hey, I just deleted something to save space, and the space is still being occupied. This Windows OS is full of Crap." "No, in deleting you moved the file to the trashcan, it has not been fully deleted until you empty the trashcan." "Well that is Crap, I want it deleted, the OS should just delete it, not move it to a trashcan, that is stupid. Give me back my Dos 6.22 disk!!" and so it goes... and so it goes.... Every change is confusing, until you understand what the change was.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb) John Andrew Holmes "It is well to remember that the entire universe, with one trifling exception, is composed of others."
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I know you're all tired of Vista rants, but this is getting outright ridiculous. I spent last couple of days reorganizing my files and moving them between network locations, Vista can't even do that properly. Day 1. I have 23 files in a network directory, status bar in explorer shows 23. Two of them are duplicates, I delete one of the duplicates, it goes away from the list. The status bar still shows 23 files. I'm a little confused because I just deleted a file, it went away, the status bar should reflect that. So I manually select all files in a folder, status bar shows 22 files. I click on an empty space in explorer pane, the status bar shows 23 again. F5 and everything goes back to normal. Well, at least F5 still works. Day 2. I select a bunch of files to move from one network location to another. Vista completes the move. The original folder still has all the files. At this point I'm scratching my head because I honestly thought I was moving files. Oh well, maybe I was mistaken and accidentally copied files instead. So I try to delete files in the original location. Sorry, can't do that because files do not exist. What? Burned by my previous experiences I do F5 again, no files in original location. This is getting outright ridiculous. What good is the OS for if I can't even reliably manage my files? I don't want to spend my time wondering if the file was really copied or moved, if I can trust explorer if the file is really there or not. I've been working with Vista for the past couple of months trying to trick myself into liking it, but it just won't cooperate. I've accepted many of Vista's quirks and deficiencies, but this is just plain stupid.
I'd still like to beat the idiot who reassigned the Up shortcut in Explorer with his own keyboard to within a centimetre of death.
Cheers, Vıkram.
"if abusing me makes you a credible then i better give u the chance which didnt get in real" - Adnan Siddiqi.
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All OS's are starting to go to Shadow Copies... the problem is how the common person handles file problems. We have a gentleman here on post who regularly likes to "clean" his system... anything he does not recognize immediately, he deletes. When his system stops working he calls us. "Why is RAGE not working?" "I don't know, did you just clean your system again?" "Yes, but that is irrelevant." "What did you delete?".... etc. etc. The Trashcan method was orignally developed to handle just this purpose, and although it worked well, it doesn't work well at the same time since the person just empties the trashcan and he is screwed. Shadow copies deletes the file, but leaves the file there. Depending on how you set up your viewing, you can actually see these, normally you do not want to. They occupy the disk space per se, and are only overwritten when you run out of room, or you exceed the settings for Shadow copy size allocated in your Vista disk settings. You can right click on a directory, or file and restore it to its state days or weeks back depending on your shadow copy capability. Part of the Vista "restore" fix on the CD is to go in and inspect for shadow copies of files recently deleted that might have caused the boot error that is being prevented. obviously it can be confusing, just as the trashcan was confusing when it first was added. Ancient discussion: "Hey, I just deleted something to save space, and the space is still being occupied. This Windows OS is full of Crap." "No, in deleting you moved the file to the trashcan, it has not been fully deleted until you empty the trashcan." "Well that is Crap, I want it deleted, the OS should just delete it, not move it to a trashcan, that is stupid. Give me back my Dos 6.22 disk!!" and so it goes... and so it goes.... Every change is confusing, until you understand what the change was.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb) John Andrew Holmes "It is well to remember that the entire universe, with one trifling exception, is composed of others."
I always set the recycle bin to "Do not move files to the recycle bin."
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All OS's are starting to go to Shadow Copies... the problem is how the common person handles file problems. We have a gentleman here on post who regularly likes to "clean" his system... anything he does not recognize immediately, he deletes. When his system stops working he calls us. "Why is RAGE not working?" "I don't know, did you just clean your system again?" "Yes, but that is irrelevant." "What did you delete?".... etc. etc. The Trashcan method was orignally developed to handle just this purpose, and although it worked well, it doesn't work well at the same time since the person just empties the trashcan and he is screwed. Shadow copies deletes the file, but leaves the file there. Depending on how you set up your viewing, you can actually see these, normally you do not want to. They occupy the disk space per se, and are only overwritten when you run out of room, or you exceed the settings for Shadow copy size allocated in your Vista disk settings. You can right click on a directory, or file and restore it to its state days or weeks back depending on your shadow copy capability. Part of the Vista "restore" fix on the CD is to go in and inspect for shadow copies of files recently deleted that might have caused the boot error that is being prevented. obviously it can be confusing, just as the trashcan was confusing when it first was added. Ancient discussion: "Hey, I just deleted something to save space, and the space is still being occupied. This Windows OS is full of Crap." "No, in deleting you moved the file to the trashcan, it has not been fully deleted until you empty the trashcan." "Well that is Crap, I want it deleted, the OS should just delete it, not move it to a trashcan, that is stupid. Give me back my Dos 6.22 disk!!" and so it goes... and so it goes.... Every change is confusing, until you understand what the change was.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb) John Andrew Holmes "It is well to remember that the entire universe, with one trifling exception, is composed of others."
Being that I don't use Vista this is only a guess... but IMHO his problem has nothing to do with "shadow copies" and more to do with Vista's Explorer not doing an automatic refresh after a file operation. No? In each case, Explorer performed the correct operation but simply failed to reflect the change until a manual F5.
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I know you're all tired of Vista rants, but this is getting outright ridiculous. I spent last couple of days reorganizing my files and moving them between network locations, Vista can't even do that properly. Day 1. I have 23 files in a network directory, status bar in explorer shows 23. Two of them are duplicates, I delete one of the duplicates, it goes away from the list. The status bar still shows 23 files. I'm a little confused because I just deleted a file, it went away, the status bar should reflect that. So I manually select all files in a folder, status bar shows 22 files. I click on an empty space in explorer pane, the status bar shows 23 again. F5 and everything goes back to normal. Well, at least F5 still works. Day 2. I select a bunch of files to move from one network location to another. Vista completes the move. The original folder still has all the files. At this point I'm scratching my head because I honestly thought I was moving files. Oh well, maybe I was mistaken and accidentally copied files instead. So I try to delete files in the original location. Sorry, can't do that because files do not exist. What? Burned by my previous experiences I do F5 again, no files in original location. This is getting outright ridiculous. What good is the OS for if I can't even reliably manage my files? I don't want to spend my time wondering if the file was really copied or moved, if I can trust explorer if the file is really there or not. I've been working with Vista for the past couple of months trying to trick myself into liking it, but it just won't cooperate. I've accepted many of Vista's quirks and deficiencies, but this is just plain stupid.
It sounds to me like vista actually did exactly what you wanted it to do (managed the files in exactly the way you told it to). Yes, the need-manual-refresh bug is annoying in vista (I had to update one of my uninstallers to manually refresh the desktop as the last step because the icon still showed) but it is VERY minor in the grand scheme of things. But your rant of "cant reliably manage my files" is simply false and misleading. I'll accept "cant reliably automaticly refresh the screen" but the file management worked as intended in your situation.
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I know you're all tired of Vista rants, but this is getting outright ridiculous. I spent last couple of days reorganizing my files and moving them between network locations, Vista can't even do that properly. Day 1. I have 23 files in a network directory, status bar in explorer shows 23. Two of them are duplicates, I delete one of the duplicates, it goes away from the list. The status bar still shows 23 files. I'm a little confused because I just deleted a file, it went away, the status bar should reflect that. So I manually select all files in a folder, status bar shows 22 files. I click on an empty space in explorer pane, the status bar shows 23 again. F5 and everything goes back to normal. Well, at least F5 still works. Day 2. I select a bunch of files to move from one network location to another. Vista completes the move. The original folder still has all the files. At this point I'm scratching my head because I honestly thought I was moving files. Oh well, maybe I was mistaken and accidentally copied files instead. So I try to delete files in the original location. Sorry, can't do that because files do not exist. What? Burned by my previous experiences I do F5 again, no files in original location. This is getting outright ridiculous. What good is the OS for if I can't even reliably manage my files? I don't want to spend my time wondering if the file was really copied or moved, if I can trust explorer if the file is really there or not. I've been working with Vista for the past couple of months trying to trick myself into liking it, but it just won't cooperate. I've accepted many of Vista's quirks and deficiencies, but this is just plain stupid.
It's probably been mentioned before, but I just saw this the other day. My wife bought a Vista laptop, and I try not to use it. But the other day I was helping her with something and suddenly Update popped up a dialog saying it was going to shut down the computer in three minutes and there was nothing I could do about it. (The options for postponing and such were disabled.) I pulled up Task Manager and killed the process, but after a minute (or so) it popped back up and continued counting down as if I hadn't. :mad:
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It's probably been mentioned before, but I just saw this the other day. My wife bought a Vista laptop, and I try not to use it. But the other day I was helping her with something and suddenly Update popped up a dialog saying it was going to shut down the computer in three minutes and there was nothing I could do about it. (The options for postponing and such were disabled.) I pulled up Task Manager and killed the process, but after a minute (or so) it popped back up and continued counting down as if I hadn't. :mad:
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I'd still like to beat the idiot who reassigned the Up shortcut in Explorer with his own keyboard to within a centimetre of death.
Cheers, Vıkram.
"if abusing me makes you a credible then i better give u the chance which didnt get in real" - Adnan Siddiqi.
Good choice. If you didn't let the rest of us in on the fun you might be the target instead.
Today's lesson is brought to you by the word "niggardly". Remember kids, don't attribute to racism what can be explained by Scandinavian language roots. -- Robert Royall
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I know you're all tired of Vista rants, but this is getting outright ridiculous. I spent last couple of days reorganizing my files and moving them between network locations, Vista can't even do that properly. Day 1. I have 23 files in a network directory, status bar in explorer shows 23. Two of them are duplicates, I delete one of the duplicates, it goes away from the list. The status bar still shows 23 files. I'm a little confused because I just deleted a file, it went away, the status bar should reflect that. So I manually select all files in a folder, status bar shows 22 files. I click on an empty space in explorer pane, the status bar shows 23 again. F5 and everything goes back to normal. Well, at least F5 still works. Day 2. I select a bunch of files to move from one network location to another. Vista completes the move. The original folder still has all the files. At this point I'm scratching my head because I honestly thought I was moving files. Oh well, maybe I was mistaken and accidentally copied files instead. So I try to delete files in the original location. Sorry, can't do that because files do not exist. What? Burned by my previous experiences I do F5 again, no files in original location. This is getting outright ridiculous. What good is the OS for if I can't even reliably manage my files? I don't want to spend my time wondering if the file was really copied or moved, if I can trust explorer if the file is really there or not. I've been working with Vista for the past couple of months trying to trick myself into liking it, but it just won't cooperate. I've accepted many of Vista's quirks and deficiencies, but this is just plain stupid.
JazzJackRabbit wrote:
So I try to delete files in the original location. Sorry, can't do that because files do not exist. What? Burned by my previous experiences I do F5 again, no files in original location.
I believe there was a bug that was fixed (at least for the most part because I don't see it on my Vista system anymore) in Vista SP1. Did you put SP1 on your Vista box? If not, you might want to think about it. Just a thought.
Mike Poz
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Good choice. If you didn't let the rest of us in on the fun you might be the target instead.
Today's lesson is brought to you by the word "niggardly". Remember kids, don't attribute to racism what can be explained by Scandinavian language roots. -- Robert Royall
dan neely wrote:
you might be the target instead
No good deed goes unpunished :((
Cheers, Vıkram.
"if abusing me makes you a credible then i better give u the chance which didnt get in real" - Adnan Siddiqi.
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Being that I don't use Vista this is only a guess... but IMHO his problem has nothing to do with "shadow copies" and more to do with Vista's Explorer not doing an automatic refresh after a file operation. No? In each case, Explorer performed the correct operation but simply failed to reflect the change until a manual F5.
That would make sense. :) good old refresh. :)
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb) John Andrew Holmes "It is well to remember that the entire universe, with one trifling exception, is composed of others."
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It sounds to me like vista actually did exactly what you wanted it to do (managed the files in exactly the way you told it to). Yes, the need-manual-refresh bug is annoying in vista (I had to update one of my uninstallers to manually refresh the desktop as the last step because the icon still showed) but it is VERY minor in the grand scheme of things. But your rant of "cant reliably manage my files" is simply false and misleading. I'll accept "cant reliably automaticly refresh the screen" but the file management worked as intended in your situation.
I'm not sure having to manually refresh is very minor. Sure, when compared to all of the other failings of this OS (from what I've heard), I guess you could say that, but I view an automatic refresh after modifying a folder's contents as a requirement. Considering that many, less aware users don't even know about View->Refresh (F5). How do they deal with this situation? It sounds like one more, in a long line of serious screw-ups. BTW, I picked up a free copy of Vista Ultimate 32bit at an MSDN Event yesterday, so I'll finally install it and have a chance to see what it's really like :). -Justin
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dan neely wrote:
you might be the target instead
No good deed goes unpunished :((
Cheers, Vıkram.
"if abusing me makes you a credible then i better give u the chance which didnt get in real" - Adnan Siddiqi.
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It's probably been mentioned before, but I just saw this the other day. My wife bought a Vista laptop, and I try not to use it. But the other day I was helping her with something and suddenly Update popped up a dialog saying it was going to shut down the computer in three minutes and there was nothing I could do about it. (The options for postponing and such were disabled.) I pulled up Task Manager and killed the process, but after a minute (or so) it popped back up and continued counting down as if I hadn't. :mad:
I assume your wife is running a non admin account. You need to log in with local admin rights to change that from the default or override it as a home user. IIRC it's stored as a group policy. At work you need domain admin rights or a heavy cluebat. :doh:
Today's lesson is brought to you by the word "niggardly". Remember kids, don't attribute to racism what can be explained by Scandinavian language roots. -- Robert Royall
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I assume your wife is running a non admin account. You need to log in with local admin rights to change that from the default or override it as a home user. IIRC it's stored as a group policy. At work you need domain admin rights or a heavy cluebat. :doh:
Today's lesson is brought to you by the word "niggardly". Remember kids, don't attribute to racism what can be explained by Scandinavian language roots. -- Robert Royall
dan neely wrote:
I assume your wife is running a non admin account.
Correct.
dan neely wrote:
You need to log in with local admin rights to change that from the default or override it as a home user.
OK, I have admin right on it, how do I go about setting that for her? Hmmm... could I have done a "switch user" to my profile and postponed the shut down? :confused: