Windows 7 Dev Team Blog
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People keep bitching about the UAC in Vista, but nobody complains that they have to sudo every command in Ubuntu. It's basically the same thing, but why the different attitude?
That's probably because you don't have to sudo unless you're installing something via the command line or using an admin tool.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
That's probably because you don't have to sudo unless you're installing something via the command line or using an admin tool.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001Which is probably because there isn't a significant fraction of *nix devs who've spent the last decade writing apps on the assumption that every single user is an admin. :mad:
Today's lesson is brought to you by the word "niggardly". Remember kids, don't attribute to racism what can be explained by Scandinavian language roots. -- Robert Royall
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I use RocketDock, and hide the taskbar. My desktop at home is a blank screen - no icons, no nothing.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
I use RocketDock, and hide the taskbar.
Well, that's an excellent utility. It is not the eye-candy that I'm concerned about, but it reduces the clutter, I can keep my quick launch there, I can move, resize it as I'd like. And I remember you were the one who suggested it. I'm using it too with my taskbar hidden.
Many are stubborn in pursuit of the path they have chosen, few in pursuit of the goal - Friedrich Nietzsche .·´¯`·->Rajesh<-·´¯`·. [Microsoft MVP - Visual C++]
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http://blogs.msdn.com/e7/default.aspx[^] In all of their statistics gathering efforts, they never asked how many people turn off the UAC...
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
That's probably because you don't have to sudo unless you're installing something via the command line or using an admin tool.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001In Ubuntu I have to provide password when I'm installing using the UI wizard, when I'm modifying video/network settings and many other. All this using the UI and not the terminal.
modified on Friday, September 26, 2008 9:08 AM
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People keep bitching about the UAC in Vista, but nobody complains that they have to sudo every command in Ubuntu. It's basically the same thing, but why the different attitude?
There is a big difference though. You use sudo to run a command and you will be prompted for the admin password. You enter the admin password and that command runs to completion without any os prompting about any further security implications. With UAC this is not the case even after allowing an action a second later you will be asked to allow more actions on the same process. I know this is more secure but it is also much more annoying. Here is a case in point that baffled me: I needed to install putty on a vista laptop from my network at work. Putty does not have an installer so I opened Program Files, created a folder and then wanted to copy and paste the executable there. Vista first prompted me with a Pretty Vista dialog explaining the security implications of this and asked me if I wanted to proceed. I clicked yes and then 1 second later I got the same exact dialog but this time it was XP style instead of vista. I answered yes to that again. Then a second later I got told I could not copy an executable across a network to the program files folder. How annoying. I ended up saving the darn file on the desktop and then copying it from the desktop to the program files folder and I believe this worked without any prompts.
John
modified on Friday, September 26, 2008 9:30 AM
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90% group similar taskbar buttons? Humph. I'm clearly in the 10%. Probably the .0001%. Marc
Marc Clifton wrote:
90% group similar taskbar buttons? Humph. I'm clearly in the 10%. Probably the .0001%.
.0001%?? What, do you want multiple buttons for a single window? ;)
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Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP Visual Developer - Visual Basic
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Wht's UAC?
You've been living in a cave for the last 2 years, haven't you?
A guide to posting questions on CodeProject[^]
Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP Visual Developer - Visual Basic
2006, 2007, 2008 -
http://blogs.msdn.com/e7/default.aspx[^] In all of their statistics gathering efforts, they never asked how many people turn off the UAC...
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001MS don't care how many users turn UAC off. UAC is Microsoft's way of getting the point across to developers that you can't assume all users are admins. UAC has focused the attention of the software community into developing software that runs as non-admin. That was MS's goal. Future versions of UAC will be different. Possibly stricter, possible unable to be disabled, but it won't matter because by then, software writers will have taken heed and written software that doesn't require admin.
Simon
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williamnw wrote:
I must admit that I open various bits in the same order so that they appear where I want them. If I accidently close one, I'll then close all the subsequent and re-open so the task bar is in the order I like.
There is of course A tool to order the window buttons in your taskbar[^] here on CP :-D I've fixed the code to work on Vista, but I haven't updated the article. If there's any interest, I could update it... Nick
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Your choice, but taskbarshuffle's drag/drop reordering is easier to use, so unless you extend yours in that direction, I don't see much benefit. TS is also partially integrated with ultramon (taskbar on 2nd+ monitors), in that it allows shuffling on each monitor, but not dragging between taskbars. Implementing that would put you one up on your competitors. :cool:
Today's lesson is brought to you by the word "niggardly". Remember kids, don't attribute to racism what can be explained by Scandinavian language roots. -- Robert Royall
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In Ubuntu I have to provide password when I'm installing using the UI wizard, when I'm modifying video/network settings and many other. All this using the UI and not the terminal.
modified on Friday, September 26, 2008 9:08 AM
blackjack2150 wrote:
In Ubuntu I have to provide password when I'm installing using the UI wizard, when I'm modifying video/network settings and many other. All this using the UI and not the terminal.
Normally it asks for the password once then performs the entire process without fail. It never asks for the password and then refuses for other reasons. As a concept UAC is fine, the RTM Vista implementation was flawed. SP1 is better but not quite there yet.
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I'm in the 4.97% who auto hide the task bar. I must admit that I open various bits in the same order so that they appear where I want them. If I accidently close one, I'll then close all the subsequent and re-open so the task bar is in the order I like.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done.
You can use Window Tabifier[^] to organize open windows in parent windows :)
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Your choice, but taskbarshuffle's drag/drop reordering is easier to use, so unless you extend yours in that direction, I don't see much benefit. TS is also partially integrated with ultramon (taskbar on 2nd+ monitors), in that it allows shuffling on each monitor, but not dragging between taskbars. Implementing that would put you one up on your competitors. :cool:
Today's lesson is brought to you by the word "niggardly". Remember kids, don't attribute to racism what can be explained by Scandinavian language roots. -- Robert Royall
I believe TaskbarShuffle only works on 32-bit Windows: that's one up for mine if you're running 64-bit :-D Nick
---------------------------------- Be excellent to each other :)
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MS don't care how many users turn UAC off. UAC is Microsoft's way of getting the point across to developers that you can't assume all users are admins. UAC has focused the attention of the software community into developing software that runs as non-admin. That was MS's goal. Future versions of UAC will be different. Possibly stricter, possible unable to be disabled, but it won't matter because by then, software writers will have taken heed and written software that doesn't require admin.
Simon
Have you ever tried to debug software as a non-admin, pita.
Need software developed? Offering C# development all over the United States, ERL GLOBAL, Inc is the only call you will have to make.
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know. -- Ernest Hemingway
Most of this sig is for Google, not ego. -
MS don't care how many users turn UAC off. UAC is Microsoft's way of getting the point across to developers that you can't assume all users are admins. UAC has focused the attention of the software community into developing software that runs as non-admin. That was MS's goal. Future versions of UAC will be different. Possibly stricter, possible unable to be disabled, but it won't matter because by then, software writers will have taken heed and written software that doesn't require admin.
Simon
Totally agree, only I don't think they will make it stricter. I see in future Microsoft may integrate UAC much better with the Windows Firewall, Parental Control and all the other security features that are currently present. I use Windows Server 2008 and I think this is the best OS yet.
In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends. - Martin Luther King Jr. Ernest Laurentin
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Have you ever tried to debug software as a non-admin, pita.
Need software developed? Offering C# development all over the United States, ERL GLOBAL, Inc is the only call you will have to make.
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know. -- Ernest Hemingway
Most of this sig is for Google, not ego.Hmmm...When you really think of it, it should not be possible right? I think it's mandatory to require admin for debug (attaching to process, stopping thread, step by step execution, etc.) I think you will agree!
In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends. - Martin Luther King Jr. Ernest Laurentin
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That's because no-one should and they aren't going to back down. If anything changes it will probably be the ability to disable the facility. I've been using UAC for nearly two years, on work and home machines, and it just doesn't bother me. It's only a problem when you've got crap software that's doing something it shouldn't, writing to the root of drive c or the program files directory for instance. UAC is helping to defend the integrity of your system just like anti-virus software does.
You got that right! To hear developers of all people complain about it always makes me roll my eyes in derision. I'd vote you a 5 if I wasn't boycotting the voting system permanently.
"It's so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don't say it." -Sam Levenson
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Hmmm...When you really think of it, it should not be possible right? I think it's mandatory to require admin for debug (attaching to process, stopping thread, step by step execution, etc.) I think you will agree!
In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends. - Martin Luther King Jr. Ernest Laurentin
If the goal is for developers to develop code that works in non-admin environments they must be able to do there job in non-admin environments. For every security hole you identify there are known solutions/work arounds. I am not advocating making the fix, I am just stating what should have been obvious.
Need software developed? Offering C# development all over the United States, ERL GLOBAL, Inc is the only call you will have to make.
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know. -- Ernest Hemingway
Most of this sig is for Google, not ego. -
That's probably because you don't have to sudo unless you're installing something via the command line or using an admin tool.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001Um...and the difference is...? I never see a UAC prompt in Vista unless I'm a) running poorly written outdated software or b) doing something potentially dangerous using an admin tool. This is seriously ironic when people bitch that windows isn't as secure as linux then when similar security is enabled that is actually *easier* to deal with in windows people bitch that it's there in the first place as if the computer should be psychic or something and read their minds. When did society become such a bunch of crybabies or such absolutely insignificant things? I blame "the customer is always right" mentality that apparently some people have taken far too much to heart. The policy should be "the customer is often wrong but be polite when you tell them so".
"It's so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don't say it." -Sam Levenson
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MS don't care how many users turn UAC off. UAC is Microsoft's way of getting the point across to developers that you can't assume all users are admins. UAC has focused the attention of the software community into developing software that runs as non-admin. That was MS's goal. Future versions of UAC will be different. Possibly stricter, possible unable to be disabled, but it won't matter because by then, software writers will have taken heed and written software that doesn't require admin.
Simon
*Exactly* right. Unfortunately *to this very day* there are some very high level professional developers who haven't a clue how to write software to Microsofts security guidelines that have been in place since at least Windows 2000 era. What the bitchy developers here seem to be clueless about is that nothing has changed at all, it's just being enforced for the first time. I put in the effort to conform to Vista security with my own apps, it took me about a week to learn how to do it properly and implement it, it would have taken a day if Microsoft had bothered to document it properly in one place in a concise and practical format. At this point any developer still bitching about UAC or that their app doesn't work right under Vista is basically the equivalent of someone standing up in a crowd with a dunce cap on their head.
"It's so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don't say it." -Sam Levenson
