User-Editable Forms Packages?
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Hi, We have a consultant who was retrained to collect requirements for an upcoming major system we plan to develop. He has been pushing the idea of using a "forms building package" as an interface to the underlying datbabase. He keeps referring to his experience with J.D.Edwards, where a user (presumably in some admin mode) could open a form in an edit mode to move labels and fields around, etc. The user could then submit the changed form for approval, and once the approval was "clicked on" the revised form would immediately be in production. He is certain that such packages exist, even though he can't name a specific one; he "will be researching the available tools". I would be grateful if anyone can name any packages that roughly meet his description, as I'd like to see (assuming the tools exist) what they can do and how we'd need to work with them. We use SQL Server as our corporate DB system, along with Great Plains for accounting and an extensive custom toolkit developed in C#. As I am probably going to be deeply involved in this, I have a vested interest in detecting potential land mines before I step on them... Thanks in advance, Frank Alviani
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Hi, We have a consultant who was retrained to collect requirements for an upcoming major system we plan to develop. He has been pushing the idea of using a "forms building package" as an interface to the underlying datbabase. He keeps referring to his experience with J.D.Edwards, where a user (presumably in some admin mode) could open a form in an edit mode to move labels and fields around, etc. The user could then submit the changed form for approval, and once the approval was "clicked on" the revised form would immediately be in production. He is certain that such packages exist, even though he can't name a specific one; he "will be researching the available tools". I would be grateful if anyone can name any packages that roughly meet his description, as I'd like to see (assuming the tools exist) what they can do and how we'd need to work with them. We use SQL Server as our corporate DB system, along with Great Plains for accounting and an extensive custom toolkit developed in C#. As I am probably going to be deeply involved in this, I have a vested interest in detecting potential land mines before I step on them... Thanks in advance, Frank Alviani
Frank Alviani wrote:
where a user (presumably in some admin mode) could open a form in an edit mode to move labels and fields around, etc. The user could then submit the changed form for approval, and once the approval was "clicked on" the revised form would immediately be in production.
That might be a good idea for a specific group of users but certainly not all users. Has your project identified the users as candidates for this functionality? Also
Frank Alviani wrote:
the idea of using a "forms building package" as an interface to the underlying datbabase.
Is this a Data Entry System? In other words, the users primary goal is to enter data, period?
led mike
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Frank Alviani wrote:
where a user (presumably in some admin mode) could open a form in an edit mode to move labels and fields around, etc. The user could then submit the changed form for approval, and once the approval was "clicked on" the revised form would immediately be in production.
That might be a good idea for a specific group of users but certainly not all users. Has your project identified the users as candidates for this functionality? Also
Frank Alviani wrote:
the idea of using a "forms building package" as an interface to the underlying datbabase.
Is this a Data Entry System? In other words, the users primary goal is to enter data, period?
led mike
Yes, the set of users with permissions to edit forms would presumably be limited. However, the system would not be focused primarily on data entry; it would be involved in our production and labeling process. My simple desire at this point is to identify at least some of the packages the consultant might have in mind so I'd know what we might be getting into should we take this path. Research would allow me to identify strengths and weaknesses before a system is designed from a position of ignorance. Thanks for your reply, Frank
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Yes, the set of users with permissions to edit forms would presumably be limited. However, the system would not be focused primarily on data entry; it would be involved in our production and labeling process. My simple desire at this point is to identify at least some of the packages the consultant might have in mind so I'd know what we might be getting into should we take this path. Research would allow me to identify strengths and weaknesses before a system is designed from a position of ignorance. Thanks for your reply, Frank
Frank Alviani wrote:
the system would not be focused primarily on data entry;
Then perhaps Data Entry Forms is not the most appropriate User Interface Design. As an example, if you utilized something like the PropertyGrid to provide for Data Entry where/when it is needed, perhaps this whole notion of users editing form layouts etc., would be a non-issue. Am I making any sense?
led mike
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Frank Alviani wrote:
the system would not be focused primarily on data entry;
Then perhaps Data Entry Forms is not the most appropriate User Interface Design. As an example, if you utilized something like the PropertyGrid to provide for Data Entry where/when it is needed, perhaps this whole notion of users editing form layouts etc., would be a non-issue. Am I making any sense?
led mike
The consultant isn't even talking about a particular C# technology - he isn't a programmer. He mostly seems to try and be buzzword compliant :( However, I feel a need to be prepared for the buzzwords he presents to my superiors. He's talking about a user-level drag-and-drop application builder type of application, on the order of some of the materials provided with the big ERP packages like SAP. "Check off the boxes for the fields in the table you want displayed and the form is automatically created for you". Does that help? I didn't even think there were any non-programmer tools of that sort available. I know non-textual tools have existed (I was one of the developers of Double Helix on the Macintosh many years ago) but the ones I was aware of didn't come close to the "no IT staff required" capabilities he keeps harping on. I'm having a hard time with the search, since keywords aren't helpful. I hope I haven't been wasting your time :( Thanks for your replies! -Frank
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The consultant isn't even talking about a particular C# technology - he isn't a programmer. He mostly seems to try and be buzzword compliant :( However, I feel a need to be prepared for the buzzwords he presents to my superiors. He's talking about a user-level drag-and-drop application builder type of application, on the order of some of the materials provided with the big ERP packages like SAP. "Check off the boxes for the fields in the table you want displayed and the form is automatically created for you". Does that help? I didn't even think there were any non-programmer tools of that sort available. I know non-textual tools have existed (I was one of the developers of Double Helix on the Macintosh many years ago) but the ones I was aware of didn't come close to the "no IT staff required" capabilities he keeps harping on. I'm having a hard time with the search, since keywords aren't helpful. I hope I haven't been wasting your time :( Thanks for your replies! -Frank
In your original post, you mentioned JD Edwards. Have you checked out Oracle's web site? In particular http://www.oracle.com/applications/jdedwards-enterprise-one.html[^] and http://www.oracle.com/applications/jdedwards-world.html[^].
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The consultant isn't even talking about a particular C# technology - he isn't a programmer. He mostly seems to try and be buzzword compliant :( However, I feel a need to be prepared for the buzzwords he presents to my superiors. He's talking about a user-level drag-and-drop application builder type of application, on the order of some of the materials provided with the big ERP packages like SAP. "Check off the boxes for the fields in the table you want displayed and the form is automatically created for you". Does that help? I didn't even think there were any non-programmer tools of that sort available. I know non-textual tools have existed (I was one of the developers of Double Helix on the Macintosh many years ago) but the ones I was aware of didn't come close to the "no IT staff required" capabilities he keeps harping on. I'm having a hard time with the search, since keywords aren't helpful. I hope I haven't been wasting your time :( Thanks for your replies! -Frank
Frank Alviani wrote:
I hope I haven't been wasting your time
Nope. I'm choosing to reply so I am the only one responsible. If it helps you at any point it's not a waste.
Frank Alviani wrote:
The consultant isn't even talking about a particular C# technology
Neither was I, it was only an example of a mechanism for data entry that is NOT a Data Form.
Frank Alviani wrote:
he isn't a programmer.
Then it is very likely he is an empty shirt.
Frank Alviani wrote:
However, I feel a need to be prepared for the buzzwords he presents to my superiors.
Try just pointing out to them that if the consultant can't be specific then his information should be considered suspect. Good luck.
led mike
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In your original post, you mentioned JD Edwards. Have you checked out Oracle's web site? In particular http://www.oracle.com/applications/jdedwards-enterprise-one.html[^] and http://www.oracle.com/applications/jdedwards-world.html[^].
Thanks for the links. Looking at the Oracle site to see what their tools can do was interesting. Nothing they presented seems to match the consultant's claims; in fairness to him he does admit it was several years ago that he worked with them, and I know Oracle has changed considerably in the last few years. Thanks for the tip - it was useful. -Frank
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Frank Alviani wrote:
I hope I haven't been wasting your time
Nope. I'm choosing to reply so I am the only one responsible. If it helps you at any point it's not a waste.
Frank Alviani wrote:
The consultant isn't even talking about a particular C# technology
Neither was I, it was only an example of a mechanism for data entry that is NOT a Data Form.
Frank Alviani wrote:
he isn't a programmer.
Then it is very likely he is an empty shirt.
Frank Alviani wrote:
However, I feel a need to be prepared for the buzzwords he presents to my superiors.
Try just pointing out to them that if the consultant can't be specific then his information should be considered suspect. Good luck.
led mike
led mike wrote:
he is an empty shirt
I've never heard that one. I always use "hat rack". :)
Mark Salsbery Microsoft MVP - Visual C++ :java:
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led mike wrote:
he is an empty shirt
I've never heard that one. I always use "hat rack". :)
Mark Salsbery Microsoft MVP - Visual C++ :java:
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Have you seenthis thread[^] :rolleyes:
led mike
I've never even seen that board! :)
Mark Salsbery Microsoft MVP - Visual C++ :java: