Tips for Code Reviewing Juniors in a Far-East Asian work culture?
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Member 4475214 wrote:
Even today one of my shift staff didn't want to come in because they had a migraine - I told them I had a bottle of Panadol in my office drawer for my frequent migraines
Assuming your employee had a genuine migraine, I'm glad I don't work for you. If you told me that when I had one, I'd quit. You don't have frequent migraines; you've got minor tension headaches. If you did have them, you'd know that Panadol (common asprin) doesn't do sh!t for a migraine. I'd love to have you in my head for an hour with one of mine. You'd run away mewling and crying :mad:.
Software Zen:
delete this;If you told me that when I had one, I'd quit.
Problem solved! :-)
You don't have frequent migraines; you've got minor tension headaches.
Oh, we have a Doctor in the house!
If you did have them, you'd know that Panadol (common asprin) doesn't do sh!t for a migraine.
Oh, maybe not. Panadol does not contain "asprin" OR aspirin. While you are checking this in your medical textbooks, Google "panadol migraine" - maybe we have found a miracle cure for you? :-)
I'd love to have you in my head for an hour with one of mine. You'd run away mewling and crying
Symptoms for my staff include checking the calendar to see whether they have any paid sick days unused. Coincidentally migraines also only occcur on Mondays or Fridays. But seriously folks, some of us are trying to run businesses in Asia. Certainly the attitude towards work in some of these countries is that it takes priority behind family, friends, social life, etc. Makes it difficult to compete globally & in the country I happen to be in, I venture to say they will never be competitive while they think the world owes them a living. All we can hope for is that the Generation Y workers in those more developed countries Twitter themselves out of the competition.
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I can only offer suggestions from the Japanese perspective, as that is the only Asian culture I have dealt with. With that caveat in mind, it is important to remember that understating is the norm. One person described to me that something would be difficult with a very small facial gesture, and what he really meant is that it may well be impossible. In that culture, if you are uchi, you have a better chance to constructively advice someone. In the end, with my group, we were fortunate to have all very experienced engineers that were heavily briefed on the expectations of working with an American company. As we were all briefed on Japanese culture, we were able to successfully meet in the middle somewhere. We watched out for when they understated something and asked them and they worked at not freaking out if we tried to rush their process along due to our own deadlines. So the key advice I can give is understate how bad you think it is and try to lead them to the answer with hints without saying it outright.
I remember the "that will be difficult" comment! If accompanied by a sucking noise it really meant "no f***ing way you stupid genetically defective round eye". The more junior the person telling you, the worse the insult. Seiously, the concept of "face" is all important in most asian countries. If a negative comment is percieved, it causes a loss of face. So circular, understated approaches are needed.
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Now that I've managed to land a fairly-comfortable job as a Senior Developer in a SouthEast Asian company, I find myself at odds with the culture here in the company and their attitude towards work and code. Apparently, my immediate supervisor wants me to be more "sensitive" to the people under me because they might get offended if I pointed out the flaws in their code. The culture in Asia seems to be more "people" centered, and the reason why I'm at odds is because I grew up in the U.S. where the goal is efficiency rather than social harmony. So anyway, here's my question: What's the most diplomatic way to tell them that their code well...sucks? If I have a deadline to meet and I've got people under me who I have to tiptoe around, it's going to hamper my efficiency, not to mention the fact that I won't be able to correct them for the mistakes that they make without offending their sensitivities. Has anyone else been in this situation before? And how did you resolve it?
Do you know...LinFu?
My experience shows just the contrary: my ex-manager in an Asian company openly and flatly accused me in not knowing how to desing complex systems. I was a fresh joiner to the company, manager had in mind a new complex client-server system with about 1 page of very high-level description and told me to design it. Their business was new to me and he knew that. Something like "design something you have no idea what" :) And after I came up with a very generic and high level design, he harshly critised it for "lack of details". What an idiot :)
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Now that I've managed to land a fairly-comfortable job as a Senior Developer in a SouthEast Asian company, I find myself at odds with the culture here in the company and their attitude towards work and code. Apparently, my immediate supervisor wants me to be more "sensitive" to the people under me because they might get offended if I pointed out the flaws in their code. The culture in Asia seems to be more "people" centered, and the reason why I'm at odds is because I grew up in the U.S. where the goal is efficiency rather than social harmony. So anyway, here's my question: What's the most diplomatic way to tell them that their code well...sucks? If I have a deadline to meet and I've got people under me who I have to tiptoe around, it's going to hamper my efficiency, not to mention the fact that I won't be able to correct them for the mistakes that they make without offending their sensitivities. Has anyone else been in this situation before? And how did you resolve it?
Do you know...LinFu?
i have lead projects in 3 countries in se asia i am in the philippines currently, i find the main issues 1.) lack of confidence 2.) little familiarity with business processes we take for granted 3.) process orientated. but the interpretation of that process will vary depending on capabilities and the immediate situation 4.) reluctance to take the lead or a high level of personal involvement in a project solutions i have found so far (needs much improvement) 1.) i have set aside time, for people to visualise products and processes and to play with good code bases. 2.) encouragement prevails but light criticism used sparingly is also required(do it with humour). u have to foster a family environment to some extent 3.) re code : my only solution has been to micro manage, a code framework has to be in place for people to write into, keep code blocks small(<5 days) and blackboxed. junior - mid level developers will code to the path of least resistance, to deliver a result that fits one requirement on the one set of test data they are codeing on - solution sourcesafe and bi-daily check ins. one company estimates that they lost 80% of development time on mis-interpretations. this could easily slip to 100% 4.) if u can move currently ineffective people into peripheral stand alone areas. bad code gets copied. 5.) testing - get someone independent of the group to do this 6.) know u peoples limitations anyway here is the worst case scenario, in another se asian country. all smiles, u can not outwardly hurt anybodies pride incase they die and come back and haunt u(serious) a directories and advertisement company hired 30 developers, management did not know code. they thought they built a database app. no they built a html template that was manually updated and a new file created. 40,000 files and then they placed some of the data in the db. management did not realize for 20 months, until they wanted a css change. sorry dude micro management, infrastructures, architecture and personal code fixing is required. until patience pays off and appropriate talent rises or walks in the door. get personally involved in the recruitment process best of luck - it is not easy
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Philip Laureano wrote:
I grew up in the U.S. where the goal is efficiency rather than social harmony.
obviously a different place than I. :) This has nothing to do with US vs. Asia or anywhere else. Eventually you will always find a company who attempts to "please everyone all of the time" such attempts look good on paper as do many things on paper, that have no practical application. There is no one way to deal with it either. I don't tell folks at work their code sucks, though I might come here and blow off some steam. We did put in place some rules for code, format, documentation, etc. Those can be pointed at directly. This is our policy, follow it, if you don't like it, you can attempt to change policy... but until then, follow it. I generally try to be hands-off except for performance, bugs, and documentation. Performance is how we make our name, and I got management backing on it because it makes us unique. Without performance we are no one, we have no product. There are a few who grumble quite loudly at that, but management so far backs me. In design, management backs no one, and style drifts. I have been told that my code is "ancient" and I scoff at some of the younger developers concepts where performance is irrelevant. So I have no answer there. but if you can get something into policy, something in writing, it is no longer your interpretation. This is policy, this is how you do it.
El, You've been conspicuous by your absence in the Lounge the last several days. Hope everything is OK. :~
WE ARE DYSLEXIC OF BORG. Refutance is systile. Your a$$ will be laminated. There are 10 kinds of people in the world: People who know binary and people who don't.
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El, You've been conspicuous by your absence in the Lounge the last several days. Hope everything is OK. :~
WE ARE DYSLEXIC OF BORG. Refutance is systile. Your a$$ will be laminated. There are 10 kinds of people in the world: People who know binary and people who don't.
I am honestly touched. Wow. Thanks. Just busy. very important stuff.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb) John Andrew Holmes "It is well to remember that the entire universe, with one trifling exception, is composed of others."