Solution for terrorism
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Would that make the Star Trek society marxist?
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Stan Shannon wrote:
What you are really trying to say, Christian, is that terrorism is the fault of evil greedy capitalists.
No, I don't believe I was saying that. I feel the need to say you're an idiot, but I'm not going to say that either. I think you made that clear, already. What a strange imaginary world you live in.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
OK, so let me get this straight. Terrorism is caused by poverty and injustice. Right? But poverty and injustice has nothing at all to do with the global economy? That there is no link of any kind between the economy and poverty and injustice? Is that what you are saying? If so, what do you suggest we do about poverty and injustice? How do we resolve the issue?
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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I don't know the solution to terrorism in general. BUt there is an easy solution to Islamic terrorism. Every single time there is an attack done in the name of Islam, we take out one of their most cherised holy sites. Give a little warning time, then send in a few cruise missles and just remove the damn thing from the face of the earth with nothing left but a goddamned crater. Maybe drop in a little pig poop after the attack just to add insult to injury. I'm pretty sure as we worked our way up to mecca something would sure as hell change.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Every single time there is an attack done in the name of Islam, we take out one of their most cherised holy sites.
Hey, we could also skin their babies alive and broadcast the operations on CNN - whadayah think? Lots of reaction shots of their mothers watching. . .boy I bet the Muslims would all convert to Christianity when they saw that!!!
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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Stan Shannon wrote:
Every single time there is an attack done in the name of Islam, we take out one of their most cherised holy sites.
Hey, we could also skin their babies alive and broadcast the operations on CNN - whadayah think? Lots of reaction shots of their mothers watching. . .boy I bet the Muslims would all convert to Christianity when they saw that!!!
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Oakman wrote:
Hey, we could also skin their babies alive and broadcast the operations on CNN - whadayah think? Lots of reaction shots of their mothers watching. . .boy I bet the Muslims would all convert to Christianity when they saw that!!!
Sounds a little harse, but what the hell, it worked on the Cherokees (except for the CNN part, of course)
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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OK, so let me get this straight. Terrorism is caused by poverty and injustice. Right? But poverty and injustice has nothing at all to do with the global economy? That there is no link of any kind between the economy and poverty and injustice? Is that what you are saying? If so, what do you suggest we do about poverty and injustice? How do we resolve the issue?
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Terrorism is caused by poverty and injustice. Right
No, poverty and injustice create the situations in which terrorism can be created. It's not a direct link, or all poor people would be terrorists. But, rich people, or even people with a hope for the future, are harder to convince to blow themselves up.
Stan Shannon wrote:
But poverty and injustice has nothing at all to do with the global economy?
Not sure how the economy came into it. The people targetted for terrorism are usually people who are being oppressed themselves and want to fight back, not just people who live in a trailer park and don't work.
Stan Shannon wrote:
If so, what do you suggest we do about poverty and injustice? How do we resolve the issue?
Well, withdrawing us support for Israel until they stop oppressing their neighbours would be a place to start. But, I was not suggesting that it's your fault personally, or that there's much you can hope to do.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
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Would that make the Star Trek society marxist?
Roddenberry was a humanist like many who hang out here. It would not be surprising if he had intentionally desgined the Star Trek universe to be a kind of advanced Marxism. Humanist will never admit that they are Marxist, but generally do accept everything about it other than the name.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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I don't know the solution to terrorism in general. BUt there is an easy solution to Islamic terrorism. Every single time there is an attack done in the name of Islam, we take out one of their most cherised holy sites. Give a little warning time, then send in a few cruise missles and just remove the damn thing from the face of the earth with nothing left but a goddamned crater. Maybe drop in a little pig poop after the attack just to add insult to injury. I'm pretty sure as we worked our way up to mecca something would sure as hell change.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Why do you say such inflamitory things like that and please don't resort to 'because it's true'?
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Stan Shannon wrote:
Terrorism is caused by poverty and injustice. Right
No, poverty and injustice create the situations in which terrorism can be created. It's not a direct link, or all poor people would be terrorists. But, rich people, or even people with a hope for the future, are harder to convince to blow themselves up.
Stan Shannon wrote:
But poverty and injustice has nothing at all to do with the global economy?
Not sure how the economy came into it. The people targetted for terrorism are usually people who are being oppressed themselves and want to fight back, not just people who live in a trailer park and don't work.
Stan Shannon wrote:
If so, what do you suggest we do about poverty and injustice? How do we resolve the issue?
Well, withdrawing us support for Israel until they stop oppressing their neighbours would be a place to start. But, I was not suggesting that it's your fault personally, or that there's much you can hope to do.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
Christian Graus wrote:
Well, withdrawing us support for Israel until they stop oppressing their neighbours would be a place to start. But, I was not suggesting that it's your fault personally, or that there's much you can hope to do.
I might agree with that, but only after the Palistinians agreed to and carried through on a promise of no terrorism against Israel for a period of at least 10 years. If they can prove they have the ability to control their terrorists, which would remove Israel's need to oppress anyone, than you might have an argument.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Roddenberry was a humanist like many who hang out here. It would not be surprising if he had intentionally desgined the Star Trek universe to be a kind of advanced Marxism. Humanist will never admit that they are Marxist, but generally do accept everything about it other than the name.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Dictionary.com: humanism: a variety of ethical theory and practice that emphasizes reason, scientific inquiry, and human fulfillment in the natural world and often rejects the importance of belief in God. Dictionary.com: Marxism: the doctrine that the state throughout history has been a device for the exploitation of the masses by a dominant class, that class struggle has been the main agency of historical change, and that the capitalist system, containing from the first the seeds of its own decay, will inevitably, after the period of the dictatorship of the proletariat, be superseded by a socialist order and a classless society. How are these two things similar Stan?
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5 - you're right, if we could fight poverty then people would have hope in this life and not place their hope in promises for the next made by cynical leaders looking for bomb fodder. Although one wonders if Adnan, for example, is poor, or just stupid.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
Christian Graus wrote:
one wonders if Adnan, for example, is poor, or just stupid
Well, with what he posts in this forum, I thought it was evident.
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon "Not only do you continue to babble nonsense, you can't even correctly remember the nonsense you babbled just minutes ago." - Rob Graham
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I think the answer to that question is largely environmental. People don't wake up and decide to commit suicide, they are taught those attitudes. I also think that at least part of the problem is that Muslims in Palestine, for example, have a clear enemy who causes their poverty, making it easier for them to hate.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
I agree.
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon "Not only do you continue to babble nonsense, you can't even correctly remember the nonsense you babbled just minutes ago." - Rob Graham
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Why do you say such inflamitory things like that and please don't resort to 'because it's true'?
wolfbinary wrote:
Why do you say such inflamitory things like that and please don't resort to 'because it's true'?
Because I think being inflametory is a legitimate response. There is way too much "oh, why can't we all just get along" in western society. I think that kind of candy ass attitude on our part is as much a part of the problem as is anything else we are doing. I believe that we need an overtly hostile stance on the issue of Islamic terrorism. Thre is nothing to understand, there is nothing to accomodate, there is nothing to consider. They simply need to be made to understand that we hold them collectively responsible for violence done in the name of their goddamned religion. Once they get everything under control like normal civilized people do, then we can all set down and have a nice civilized conversation over a cup of tea.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Seriously ? Sure, the people exploiting the bombers are rich. The people without whom the whole system fails, who give their lives, you think they are recruited from night clubs and meetings of investment bankers ? They are recruited from the oppressed and the poor.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Some societies have developed social and legal infrastuctures sufficiently robust to prevent such inherent violence from bubbling out of control. Others have not.
The infrastructure only works because most people have a vested interest in making it work. It's not the fault of the people, per se, they don't choose terrorism over peace and prosperity, they don't have that short term choice and they see no way out.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
Christian Graus wrote:
They are recruited from the oppressed and the poor.
Because the ones exploiting them know with money they can lure them into it.
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon "Not only do you continue to babble nonsense, you can't even correctly remember the nonsense you babbled just minutes ago." - Rob Graham
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wolfbinary wrote:
Why do you say such inflamitory things like that and please don't resort to 'because it's true'?
Because I think being inflametory is a legitimate response. There is way too much "oh, why can't we all just get along" in western society. I think that kind of candy ass attitude on our part is as much a part of the problem as is anything else we are doing. I believe that we need an overtly hostile stance on the issue of Islamic terrorism. Thre is nothing to understand, there is nothing to accomodate, there is nothing to consider. They simply need to be made to understand that we hold them collectively responsible for violence done in the name of their goddamned religion. Once they get everything under control like normal civilized people do, then we can all set down and have a nice civilized conversation over a cup of tea.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
So then then all people from a country, such as the US, are collectively responsible for every action every person in their country makes?
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So then then all people from a country, such as the US, are collectively responsible for every action every person in their country makes?
wolfbinary wrote:
So then then all people from a country, such as the US, are collectively responsible for every action every person in their country makes?
Certainly Al Qaeda holds that view. In Osama's own words we (Americans and Europeans) are jointly and individually guilty because, as democracies we select the leaders that carry out the policies the he takes offense to. This was his justification of the 911 attacks and later the Madrid and London attacks. Civilians were legitimate targets for this reason.
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wolfbinary wrote:
So then then all people from a country, such as the US, are collectively responsible for every action every person in their country makes?
Certainly Al Qaeda holds that view. In Osama's own words we (Americans and Europeans) are jointly and individually guilty because, as democracies we select the leaders that carry out the policies the he takes offense to. This was his justification of the 911 attacks and later the Madrid and London attacks. Civilians were legitimate targets for this reason.
Rob Graham wrote:
In Osama's own wor
That's why I asked. We cannot resort to the extremes of society as legitamate foriegn policy. There are cultural differences that far out weigh any religion differences here that are in play. The middle east and much of Africa, from what I know (not much admittenly), have been killing each other for quite a while without us there. Are all Christians responsible forever and ever for the crusades? When do we stop perpetuating the cycle with rationalizing bad behavior with worse behavior of our own? Are you saying, Stan, that we are to wipe them out completely?
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wolfbinary wrote:
So then then all people from a country, such as the US, are collectively responsible for every action every person in their country makes?
Certainly Al Qaeda holds that view. In Osama's own words we (Americans and Europeans) are jointly and individually guilty because, as democracies we select the leaders that carry out the policies the he takes offense to. This was his justification of the 911 attacks and later the Madrid and London attacks. Civilians were legitimate targets for this reason.
Rob Graham wrote:
This was his justification of the 911 attacks and later the Madrid and London attacks.
But are you sure you want to find yourself in agreement with Osama - or even worse, with Stan?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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So then then all people from a country, such as the US, are collectively responsible for every action every person in their country makes?
wolfbinary wrote:
So then then all people from a country, such as the US, are collectively responsible for every action every person in their country makes?
Yes.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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wolfbinary wrote:
Why do you say such inflamitory things like that and please don't resort to 'because it's true'?
Because I think being inflametory is a legitimate response. There is way too much "oh, why can't we all just get along" in western society. I think that kind of candy ass attitude on our part is as much a part of the problem as is anything else we are doing. I believe that we need an overtly hostile stance on the issue of Islamic terrorism. Thre is nothing to understand, there is nothing to accomodate, there is nothing to consider. They simply need to be made to understand that we hold them collectively responsible for violence done in the name of their goddamned religion. Once they get everything under control like normal civilized people do, then we can all set down and have a nice civilized conversation over a cup of tea.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
So what you're saying that if they fight using capitalism, say raising oil prices to screw the US economy, then that's okay, otherwise it's a no-no? Of course we know that's also not true. All countries fight for their interests using whatever means possible. The total number of Muslim fundamentalists compared to those that aren't is astronomically small. The number of poor compared to filthy rich princes and oil sheiks is astronomically high. Money is the issue. And if they were to all get rich such that the US becomes a third-world nation in comparison (through legal means), you can bet the US and anyone else will bomb the shit out of them. Nobody likes being poor. Poverty, combined with no education, hunger, and mental instability caused by years of oppression and depression can cause people to do crazy things. If a woman is willing to drown her kids because "God" told her so, a few hundred people, who's relatives have been killed, can be convinced to blow themselves up. People are always looking to find out who does these things, but never why. The why is unacceptable to people like you who like the status quo as it is. What the f*** is wrong with sharing and working to better all of mankind? Then we can focus our efforts on mankind advancement instead of which fucking OS or programming language is better. Why give a shit?
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Greenpeace is a foreign interest, except in Amsterdam. The US Government defines a foreign interest as: Any foreign government, agency of a foreign government, or representative of a foreign government; any form of business enterprise or legal entity organized, chartered or incorporated under the laws of any country other than the US. or its possessions and trust territories, and any person who is not a citizen or national of the United States.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Was Oklahoma City/Maury building attack terrorism, or not? If so, what was the foreign interest? If not, what do you call activities that are done for the express interest of terrorizing a population?
Silver member by constant and unflinching longevity.