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  4. So just why is GW of such interest to Socialist International?

So just why is GW of such interest to Socialist International?

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  • L Lost User

    Climate Change was at the top of the agenda when the XXIII Congress of the Socialist Inter- national met in Athens, Greece, from 30 June - 2 July 2008 Members of the Commission for a Sustainable World Society gathering in Stockholm on 5-6 September, hosted by the Swedish Social Democratic Party, SAP, warned that the worldwide economic downturn could not be allowed to slow down the pace of commitments to climate change and urged the international community to produce solid results leading to an agreement at the forthcoming United Nations Conference of the Parties to the Climate Convention (COP-14) to be held in Poznan in December this year. (Statement) [^] Isnt GW a scientific issue? I mean, either CO2 causes 'x' amount of warmning, or not and whether 'y' amount of warming will cause 'z' amount of rainfall somewhere in the world. But of course, it never was about the environment. As stated by Chirac and co: "I was in the room in The Hague in November 2000 when then-French President Jacques Chirac hailed the Kyoto Protocol, or "global warming" treaty, as "the first component of an authentic global governance." Then-European Union Environment Commissioner Margot Wallstrom seconded the sentiment when she told London's Independent that Kyoto was "not about whether scientists agree" but instead "about leveling the playing field for big businesses worldwide." " Chris Horner. So you see there is no point trying to debate the science with Carson, Fisticufs, or Karl. They wont debate. They dont want to debate. As soon as you get close to making a valid point they start name calling. Their sole interest is in seeing global socialism.

    Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription

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    J Offline
    John Carson
    wrote on last edited by
    #9

    fat_boy wrote:

    So you see there is no point trying to debate the science with Carson, Fisticufs, or Karl. They wont debate. They dont want to debate. As soon as you get close to making a valid point they start name calling.

    That is an untested hypothesis since you have never got close to making a valid point.

    John Carson

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    • T Tom Deketelaere

      Ka?l wrote:

      It's just on the verge of exploding and disappearing.

      Hardly Things around here will just keep working the way they have for all this time. It's only the politicians that are arguing, and like everywhere else the'll keep arguing like little children not willing to compromise.

      K Offline
      K Offline
      KaRl
      wrote on last edited by
      #10

      Tom Deketelaere wrote:

      Hardly

      Good to know! We don't need to see more countries breaking up in Europe.

      Tom Deketelaere wrote:

      It's only the politicians that are arguing, and like everywhere else the'll keep arguing like little children not willing to compromise.

      If it's only a matter of politicians, why are parties like the Vlaams Blok/Vlaams Belang stronger and stronger at each election?

      Change of fashion is the tax levied by the industry of the poor on the vanity of the rich Fold with us! ¤ flickr

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      • D Dalek Dave

        After the Fall of the USSR, the world had nothing to fear, and without fear, governments cannot rule. So fear is manufactured, GW and AQ. People are being manipulated because they are too stupid to see they are being herded into the gas chambers again. Tell big lies and tell them often! How bad is Belgium doing? It hasn't had a government for ages, and it is ticking along nicely with the civil service just doing it's job. We should all throw off the shackles of corrupt governance, being lied too, having people killed on the whim of Presidents and Prime Ministers, in illegal wars based on created non evidence.

        ------------------------------------ "The greatest tragedy in mankind's entire history may be the hijacking of morality by religion" Arthur C Clarke

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        L Offline
        Lost User
        wrote on last edited by
        #11

        Anarchy!

        Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription

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        • T Tom Deketelaere

          Ka?l wrote:

          It's just on the verge of exploding and disappearing.

          Hardly Things around here will just keep working the way they have for all this time. It's only the politicians that are arguing, and like everywhere else the'll keep arguing like little children not willing to compromise.

          L Offline
          L Offline
          Lost User
          wrote on last edited by
          #12

          And yet most Flems I have spoken to about this see a split as inevitable.

          Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription

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          • J John Carson

            fat_boy wrote:

            So you see there is no point trying to debate the science with Carson, Fisticufs, or Karl. They wont debate. They dont want to debate. As soon as you get close to making a valid point they start name calling.

            That is an untested hypothesis since you have never got close to making a valid point.

            John Carson

            L Offline
            L Offline
            Lost User
            wrote on last edited by
            #13

            So what is causing the current cooling trend?

            Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription

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            • K KaRl

              Tom Deketelaere wrote:

              Hardly

              Good to know! We don't need to see more countries breaking up in Europe.

              Tom Deketelaere wrote:

              It's only the politicians that are arguing, and like everywhere else the'll keep arguing like little children not willing to compromise.

              If it's only a matter of politicians, why are parties like the Vlaams Blok/Vlaams Belang stronger and stronger at each election?

              Change of fashion is the tax levied by the industry of the poor on the vanity of the rich Fold with us! ¤ flickr

              T Offline
              T Offline
              Tom Deketelaere
              wrote on last edited by
              #14

              Ka?l wrote:

              If it's only a matter of politicians, why are parties like the Vlaams Blok/Vlaams Belang stronger and stronger at each election?

              That has nothing to do with the current problems in the government. Those party's get stronger because of the very nature of our country. Everyone is welcome and everyone will get money out off the government(you just need to figure out how). This leads to thousands off emigrants coming here and 'leeching' off the working people. So a lot off those people start to vote for these party's. Not realizing that solving this problem (bye kicking those emigrants out) is only a very little part off what they have in mind. A few of the other points of the party you named are: -Woman at home, cooking, cleaning (so not working) -All kids (under 16 or 18) indoors before dark -... But those points are discussed openly so not many people know about them.

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              • L Lost User

                And yet most Flems I have spoken to about this see a split as inevitable.

                Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription

                T Offline
                T Offline
                Tom Deketelaere
                wrote on last edited by
                #15

                I see it as a possibility not as inevitable. And if it does happen Belgium will still exist, most like the French part will join France and the Flemish part will operate independently (become Belgium). But we are far away from that, and I really don't think it will happen.

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                • T Tom Deketelaere

                  Ka?l wrote:

                  If it's only a matter of politicians, why are parties like the Vlaams Blok/Vlaams Belang stronger and stronger at each election?

                  That has nothing to do with the current problems in the government. Those party's get stronger because of the very nature of our country. Everyone is welcome and everyone will get money out off the government(you just need to figure out how). This leads to thousands off emigrants coming here and 'leeching' off the working people. So a lot off those people start to vote for these party's. Not realizing that solving this problem (bye kicking those emigrants out) is only a very little part off what they have in mind. A few of the other points of the party you named are: -Woman at home, cooking, cleaning (so not working) -All kids (under 16 or 18) indoors before dark -... But those points are discussed openly so not many people know about them.

                  K Offline
                  K Offline
                  KaRl
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #16

                  Tom Deketelaere wrote:

                  This leads to thousands off emigrants coming here and 'leeching' off the working people.

                  Ah, the good old scapegoat of the Far Right, the bad immigrant that comes to steal the bread and rape the daughters of the locals. Same here, it worked/works for long.

                  Change of fashion is the tax levied by the industry of the poor on the vanity of the rich Fold with us! ¤ flickr

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                  • L Lost User

                    So what is causing the current cooling trend?

                    Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription

                    K Offline
                    K Offline
                    KaRl
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #17

                    Today's the weather is hotter than yesterday. Following your logic, we are now back to a warming!

                    Jouir et faire jouir sans faire de mal ni à toi ni à personne, voilà je crois le fondement de toute morale Fold with us! ¤ flickr

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                    • K KaRl

                      Tom Deketelaere wrote:

                      This leads to thousands off emigrants coming here and 'leeching' off the working people.

                      Ah, the good old scapegoat of the Far Right, the bad immigrant that comes to steal the bread and rape the daughters of the locals. Same here, it worked/works for long.

                      Change of fashion is the tax levied by the industry of the poor on the vanity of the rich Fold with us! ¤ flickr

                      T Offline
                      T Offline
                      Tom Deketelaere
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #18

                      Sadly it's true (well not the part of the raping). They come here, have no job (and no interest in getting one, hell why would you), so nothing but time to figure out how to abuse the system. I have one of these living across the street. He doesn't work but has his own house (rent I think), 2 cars (nice one's) and disturbs the neighborhood (is playing music loudly till the late hours, works on his car till the late hours,...) Does this mean I vote for the 'Far Right' no, but I don't have to like it. I have a lot of friends who are emigrants and do work and do adjust to the culture here. But like with everything those 'few' (there are more and more lately) bad apples ruin it for the rest.

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                      • K KaRl

                        Today's the weather is hotter than yesterday. Following your logic, we are now back to a warming!

                        Jouir et faire jouir sans faire de mal ni à toi ni à personne, voilà je crois le fondement de toute morale Fold with us! ¤ flickr

                        L Offline
                        L Offline
                        Lost User
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #19

                        Ka?l wrote:

                        Today's the weather is hotter than yesterday. Following your logic, we are now back to a warming!

                        Do you mean globally or locally? If you mean locally, and limit yourself to the northern hemisphere then since we have passed the shortest day it will be warming. However, we are still on a cooling trend this interglacial. Check out the vostock ice core data.

                        Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription

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                        • J John Carson

                          fat_boy wrote:

                          So you see there is no point trying to debate the science with Carson, Fisticufs, or Karl. They wont debate. They dont want to debate. As soon as you get close to making a valid point they start name calling.

                          That is an untested hypothesis since you have never got close to making a valid point.

                          John Carson

                          L Offline
                          L Offline
                          Lost User
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #20

                          Cant answer can you. You havent got a clue have you. You dont know jack shit about this do you. You just regurgitate stuff you read on Hansens lackies website.

                          Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription

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                          • K KaRl

                            Today's the weather is hotter than yesterday. Following your logic, we are now back to a warming!

                            Jouir et faire jouir sans faire de mal ni à toi ni à personne, voilà je crois le fondement de toute morale Fold with us! ¤ flickr

                            P Offline
                            P Offline
                            phannon86
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #21

                            Since when did two measurements make a trend?

                            He who makes a beast out of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man

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                            • P phannon86

                              Since when did two measurements make a trend?

                              He who makes a beast out of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man

                              H Offline
                              H Offline
                              hairy_hats
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #22

                              Phannon wrote:

                              Since when did two measurements make a trend?

                              You must be new here.

                              P 1 Reply Last reply
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                              • H hairy_hats

                                Phannon wrote:

                                Since when did two measurements make a trend?

                                You must be new here.

                                P Offline
                                P Offline
                                phannon86
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #23

                                :laugh: I don't venture to the soapbox often, but I gather this about sums up the strength of their argument?

                                He who makes a beast out of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man

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                                • P phannon86

                                  :laugh: I don't venture to the soapbox often, but I gather this about sums up the strength of their argument?

                                  He who makes a beast out of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man

                                  H Offline
                                  H Offline
                                  hairy_hats
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #24

                                  Yes and no, depending on who you talk to and what colour socks your postman's granny's cat's vet's neighbour's brother is wearing that day. Hope that helps! :laugh:

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                                  • P phannon86

                                    Since when did two measurements make a trend?

                                    He who makes a beast out of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man

                                    K Offline
                                    K Offline
                                    KaRl
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #25

                                    Ask Mr Fat Boy. I just want to tell you good luck. We're all counting on you.

                                    Anyone who is not a misanthropist at 40 never loved men at any time Fold with us! ¤ flickr

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                                    • L Lost User

                                      Ka?l wrote:

                                      Today's the weather is hotter than yesterday. Following your logic, we are now back to a warming!

                                      Do you mean globally or locally? If you mean locally, and limit yourself to the northern hemisphere then since we have passed the shortest day it will be warming. However, we are still on a cooling trend this interglacial. Check out the vostock ice core data.

                                      Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription

                                      K Offline
                                      K Offline
                                      KaRl
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #26

                                      If you look at Vostok data, you'll see that for the last 440,000 years CO2 level never exceeded ~300 ppm. We are now exceeding 380 ppm. If you look at EPICA and Vostok data, you'll see there's an evident correlation between CO2 proportion in the atmosphere and the temperature. Please explain why the current, exceptional rise of CO2 would this time have no effect at all whatsover on the climate?

                                      When the pitcher falls upon the stone, woe unto the pitcher, when the stone falls upon the pitcher, woe unto the pitcher : whatever befalls, woe unto the pitcher

                                      Fold with us! ¤ flickr

                                      L 1 Reply Last reply
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                                      • P phannon86

                                        :laugh: I don't venture to the soapbox often, but I gather this about sums up the strength of their argument?

                                        He who makes a beast out of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man

                                        K Offline
                                        K Offline
                                        KaRl
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #27

                                        So newbie, have made yourself an opinion yet? :P Welcome to the club :-D

                                        How do you own disorder? Fold with us! ¤ flickr

                                        1 Reply Last reply
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                                        • K KaRl

                                          If you look at Vostok data, you'll see that for the last 440,000 years CO2 level never exceeded ~300 ppm. We are now exceeding 380 ppm. If you look at EPICA and Vostok data, you'll see there's an evident correlation between CO2 proportion in the atmosphere and the temperature. Please explain why the current, exceptional rise of CO2 would this time have no effect at all whatsover on the climate?

                                          When the pitcher falls upon the stone, woe unto the pitcher, when the stone falls upon the pitcher, woe unto the pitcher : whatever befalls, woe unto the pitcher

                                          Fold with us! ¤ flickr

                                          L Offline
                                          L Offline
                                          Lost User
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #28

                                          Are we or are we not in a 10,000 year cooling trend?

                                          Ka?l wrote:

                                          Please explain why the current, exceptional rise of CO2 would this time have no effect at all whatsover on the climate

                                          Because the rise is very slight in terms of total atmospheric concentration. 0.03 to 0.038 percent to be exact and although CO2 absorbs IR its effect is not linear so further increase in CO2 will not trap any more IR and thus not cause any extra radiated warming. The very sloght warming CO2 causes is masked by many other factors, particularly albedo, which is affected by aerosols. Look at the post war cooling as proof of how much more powerfull aerosols are than CO2. It is also likely that the sun affects albedo since it has been known for a long time that sun spots cause an increase in temperature. (Herschel noticed this as long ago as 1805)

                                          Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription

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