Here's to perspective...

Rob Graham

Well, it would only be fair that we suffer too, given that it will take generations to rebuild. It is, after all, our fault. See what Paulson started.

Oakman

Rob Graham wrote:

It will be a long time before it is forgotten that this happened on the "conservative's" watch.

It would be somewhat amusing to watch the knee-jerk conservatives (which is not all of them, by any means) try to blame the Bush-Paulson bailout on Obama, if it wasn't so sad.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

Stan Shannon

If there is one group which has no blame in any of this it is conservatives of any stripe. Conservatism does not need to be brought back one way or another, it never went any where. It is hardly our fault Bush declined to govern as a conservative when push came to shove. This will all fail. The greater the effort to make it work, the more spectacular will be the ultimate failure. If there is any thing left at all that resembles civilization once the dust finally settles, conservatism will be the last man standing, so to speak. It is the only thing that works.

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

Shog9 0

Stan Shannon wrote:

It is hardly our fault Bush declined to govern as a conservative when push came to shove.

Exactly. It's the fault of the folks who made the mistake of voting for him.

----

You're right. These facts that you've laid out totally contradict the wild ramblings that I pulled off the back of cornflakes packets.

Stan Shannon

Shog9 wrote:

It's the fault of the folks who made the mistake of voting for him.

In what way? I voted for him in order to get conservatives judges on the supreme court, that was, and is the only important issue. I got that, so I'm happy. I'm disappointed, but not surprised by anything else.

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

Shog9 0

Stan Shannon wrote:

I voted for him in order to get conservatives judges on the supreme court, that was, and is the only important issue. I got that, so I'm happy.

:shrug: So you got what you wanted, screw the rest of us? Fair enough. But if that's the attitude of big-C Conservatism, then you're right - it doesn't need to be brought back.

----

You're right. These facts that you've laid out totally contradict the wild ramblings that I pulled off the back of cornflakes packets.

Stan Shannon

Shog9 wrote:

So you got what you wanted, screw the rest of us?

Pretty much, yeah. You want the impossible, you can't have it. Not my fault.

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

Chris Austin

Oakman wrote:

It would be somewhat amusing to watch the knee-jerk conservatives (which is not all of them, by any means) try to blame the Bush-Paulson bailout on Obama, if it wasn't so sad.

I am just waiting for the fat and stupid likes of Rush and his ditto heads to start chirping about how it happened after he was elected so it was obviously entirely his fault. It seems improbable but we seem to be living in a full scale kakistocracy so nothing should surprise me.

Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long

Oakman

Chris Austin wrote:

but we seem to be living in a full scale kakistocracy

It is amazing how much that was great about the U.S. has been systematically pissed away by the ever-increasing idiocies of Washington during the last fifty years. I cherish a fond hope that Obama will somehow reverse the trend, but I am afraid that I must use 'fond' in the original sense of the word.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

BoneSoft

Mad Max, Water World, The Postman, I Am Legend, 28 Days Later, hell even Tank Girl. I find myself, for unknown reason, thinking more and more about survival skills. I have this constant feeling that I imagine is exactly what rats feel on a sinking ship. It seems completely irrational to me, but it's there nonetheless. I keep thinking, what if it all really fell apart. My brain says that "it will never get THAT bad", but something else in me say "what if". However bad it does get, it ain't gonna be no picnic for a while.

Visit BoneSoft.com for code generation tools (XML & XSD -> C#, VB, etc...) and some free developer tools as well.

MrPlankton

Rob Graham wrote:

"conservative's" watch

Bush is not a conservative. The conservative response (and libertarian) would be to do nothing. 1987. Bush should of told Paulson to get lost (IMHO).

MrPlankton

Mexican boy: Viene la tormenta! Sarah Connor: What did he just say? Gas Station Attendant: He said there's a storm coming Sarah Connor: [sighs] I know.

Stan Shannon

Chris Austin wrote:

It seems improbable but we seem to be living in a full scale kakistocracy so nothing should surprise me.

Improbable?!! It is the inevitable result of allowing a society to become overly dependent upon government. Give any government enough power and it will become either corrupt,incompetent, or both. And you cannot prevent it by any amount of democracy. If you listened to Rush more, you would understand these things.

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

MrPlankton

Well said sir.

MrPlankton

Mexican boy: Viene la tormenta! Sarah Connor: What did he just say? Gas Station Attendant: He said there's a storm coming Sarah Connor: [sighs] I know.

Stan Shannon

Except that it begs the question "rebuild what?" It assumes that there is some agreement upon what we are supposed to be rebuilding. The sad fact is that there is nothing to rebuild. Any material we could rebuild with is itself corrupt and unusable. What we should be looking at this as is an opportunity for starting over, not rebuilding. A new beginning.

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

Rob Graham

That's precisely why the conservatives deserve nothing but condemnation for this. The chose social conservative bigotry over everything else, sacrificing even their core principles of small government and fiscal conservatism for what are essentially religiously motivated beliefs. You are no different that the Taliban.

Rob Graham

Damn straight it's your fault.

Stan Shannon

Rob Graham wrote:

That's precisely why the conservatives deserve nothing but condemnation for this. The chose social conservative bigotry over everything else, sacrificing even their core principles of small government and fiscal conservatism for what are essentially religiously motivated beliefs. You are no different that the Taliban.

So, you are saying that traditional American society was always the equivalent of the taliban? When precisely did we change to something different, something you seem to approve of?

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

Stan Shannon

Rob Graham wrote:

Damn straight it's your fault.

How? Who the hell exactly were we supposed to vote for who would have done anything differently?

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

Rob Graham

No, just your imagined version.

Rob Graham

The failure precedes this election by at least two, if not more. The Republican Party has not selected a small government fiscal conservative candidate since Reagan. And the answer to your question is likely the candidate I chose: Bob Barr.