Xenophobia

KaRl

digital man wrote:

You've missed the point

By blaming non locals, they missed the point.

digital man wrote:

they might have only advertised the jobs first in the local papers

Why would the Italian company which won the contract would recruit locals when it has the competent people in its own staff? Why would Total limit the contracts to UK companies only?

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KaRl

Dalek Dave wrote:

the term Xenophobia, that merely means irrational fear of strangers.

Then I perfectly chose my word.

Dalek Dave wrote:

More a kind of Nationalistic Resentment

Nationalism is when hate for people other than your own comes first.

When they kick at your front door How you gonna come? With your hands on your head Or on the trigger of your gun?

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KaRl

The reference text is this one: Directive 96/71/EC[^]: "The key content of directive 96/71/CE The Directive seeks to guarantee that posted workers will enjoy, whatever the law applicable to the employment relationship (see in particular the 1980 Rome Convention on the law applicable to contractual obligations), the application of certain minimum protective provisions in force in the Member State to which they are posted. To this end, Article 3(1) of the Directive lays down the mandatory rules to be observed by employers during the period of posting in regard to the following issues: * maximum work periods and minimum rest periods, * minimum paid annual holidays, * minimum rates of pay, * the conditions of hiring-out of workers, in particular the supply of workers by temporary employment undertakings, * health, safety and hygiene at work, * protective measures with regard to the terms and conditions of employment of pregnant women or women who have recently given birth, of children and of young people. "

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Oakman

pseudonym67 wrote:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/feb/03/gordon-brown-economic-policy\[^\]

Excellent article. It would appear that Britain is as well-served by her globalist leaders as the US has been.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.

Chris Austin

I'll take that to be a yes :). So, is this enforced in practice? Does a roofer or mason from Italy get paid the same as a local tradesman when he comes to work in Paris? Or, are people paid "under the table" (in cash) at substantially less than their domestic counterpart?

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Oakman

Ka?l wrote:

The reference text is this one: Directive 96/71/EC[^]:

In other words, no. The British workers get the Union minimum; the aliens get the minimum wage.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.

Dalek Dave

Ka?l wrote:

Then I perfectly chose my word.

No, their fear is RATIONAL, they fear for their jobs, therefore it is not a Phobia.

Ka?l wrote:

Nationalism is when hate for people other than your own comes first.

Well, exactly, they want British Jobs for British Workers, that is exactly as you describe Nationalism. Xenophobia could relate to people from the next village.

------------------------------------ "Your manuscript is both good and original. But the part that is good is not original, and the part that is original is not good." Dr Samuel Johnson

R Giskard Reventlov

Ka?l wrote:

By blaming non locals, they missed the point.

Again, pretty sure that; swhat I said.

Ka?l wrote:

Why would the Italian company which won the contract would recruit locals when it has the competent people in its own staff? Why would Total limit the contracts to UK companies only?

I didn't say they should, I said they could and there would have been nothing wrong with that either: it would have been more senstive to the local people. However, they are perfectly within their rights to cöck-a-snoot and import workers from wherever it suits them and upholds profits. Isn't it bizarre that, for a change, we are agreeing and can't agree that we are agreeing? You have to laugh. :-)

me, me, me

Lost User

Chris Austin wrote:

I'll take that to be a yes

You would be wrong. Minimum wages means exactly as defined by law - namely the minimum your employer is required to pay for your labour. This is not necessarily the going rate for the job. However, pay "under the table" is tantamount to the "black economy" and should always be discouraged and is thus illegal, but that doesn't stop that happening especially in "sweat-shops" and undeclared "on-the-side" earnings.

Dalek Dave

No, they are required to be paid a wage concurrent with their home country, therefore undercutting UK minimum wage.

------------------------------------ "Your manuscript is both good and original. But the part that is good is not original, and the part that is original is not good." Dr Samuel Johnson

KaRl

Chris Austin wrote:

I'll take that to be a yes

Not exactly - For instance, local workers can be paid over the minimum local wage, when the EU directive asks that paychecks are at least that minimum local wage.

Chris Austin wrote:

So, is this enforced in practice?

I don't know for UK, but generally unions are careful about it and don't hesitate to go to court.

Chris Austin wrote:

Does a roofer or mason from Italy get paid the same as a local tradesman when he comes to work in Paris? Or, are people paid "under the table" (in cash) at substantially less than their domestic counterpart?

If the worker is from Italy, (s)he could ask for the same wage than his/her french counterpart, or (s)he could go to court for discrimination. The issue comes when the worker works for a Italian company, he would work in France at the conditions of its Italian job, as long as it respects the EU directive. That could be less and sometimes way less than a worker working for a local company.

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hairy_hats

Dalek Dave wrote:

Xenophobia could relate to people from the next village.

See also: Norfolk

Lost User

That is bad and not aimed at equality at all.

KaRl

digital man wrote:

for a change, we are agreeing

Thanks God it's only superficial - or I should start worrying.

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KaRl

Dalek Dave wrote:

their jobs

Their jobs? They come from a foreign company.

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KaRl

Dalek Dave wrote:

No, they are required to be paid a wage concurrent with their home country, therefore undercutting UK minimum wage.

No, this is not true[^]

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Dalek Dave

:confused: The British Workers in Britain are against any company in Britain bringing in foreign workers to do a job they ought to be doing. Ford employs people all over the world, but it does not bring in Americans to buld the cars in different countries. Ditto Coke, McDonalds, Hoover, Sony etc. Or are you saying that only people who are from the country of origin of a company are to be employed? In that case there would be a lot of people all over the world unemployed.

------------------------------------ "Your manuscript is both good and original. But the part that is good is not original, and the part that is original is not good." Dr Samuel Johnson

Dalek Dave

It is true. They are being given food and accomodation and this is deemed part of the remuneration, this is a) Legal and b) undercutting the final Wage bill. (The accommodation is charged at a fixed rate, and is cheaper than the locals pay for theirs, so it reflects a difference in wage costs and benefits.) Please read the details of these things before you start attacking the concerns of the locals!

------------------------------------ "Your manuscript is both good and original. But the part that is good is not original, and the part that is original is not good." Dr Samuel Johnson

Baconbutty

We'd also get UK people manning the call centres instead of Indian people whose name is "Martin" or "Richard".

My new favourite phrase - "misdirected leisure activity"

Dalek Dave

I have told this before, but is worth a repost... I received a call from what is obviously an Indian Call Centre, and a chap claiming to be called Ken. "Is that really your name" I asked. "No, but we find it better than our own names which are often harder to pronounce" cometh the reply. "OK, so you have started this call by lying to me, what makes you think anything else you say will be believed?" CLICK

------------------------------------ "Your manuscript is both good and original. But the part that is good is not original, and the part that is original is not good." Dr Samuel Johnson