Xenophobia

[Oakman]

Ka?l wrote:

The reference text is this one: Directive 96/71/EC[^]:

In other words, no. The British workers get the Union minimum; the aliens get the minimum wage.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.

[Dalek Dave]

Ka?l wrote:

Then I perfectly chose my word.

No, their fear is RATIONAL, they fear for their jobs, therefore it is not a Phobia.

Ka?l wrote:

Nationalism is when hate for people other than your own comes first.

Well, exactly, they want British Jobs for British Workers, that is exactly as you describe Nationalism. Xenophobia could relate to people from the next village.

------------------------------------ "Your manuscript is both good and original. But the part that is good is not original, and the part that is original is not good." Dr Samuel Johnson

[R Giskard Reventlov]

Ka?l wrote:

By blaming non locals, they missed the point.

Again, pretty sure that; swhat I said.

Ka?l wrote:

Why would the Italian company which won the contract would recruit locals when it has the competent people in its own staff? Why would Total limit the contracts to UK companies only?

I didn't say they should, I said they could and there would have been nothing wrong with that either: it would have been more senstive to the local people. However, they are perfectly within their rights to cöck-a-snoot and import workers from wherever it suits them and upholds profits. Isn't it bizarre that, for a change, we are agreeing and can't agree that we are agreeing? You have to laugh. :-)

me, me, me

[Lost User]

Chris Austin wrote:

I'll take that to be a yes

You would be wrong. Minimum wages means exactly as defined by law - namely the minimum your employer is required to pay for your labour. This is not necessarily the going rate for the job. However, pay "under the table" is tantamount to the "black economy" and should always be discouraged and is thus illegal, but that doesn't stop that happening especially in "sweat-shops" and undeclared "on-the-side" earnings.

[Dalek Dave]

No, they are required to be paid a wage concurrent with their home country, therefore undercutting UK minimum wage.

------------------------------------ "Your manuscript is both good and original. But the part that is good is not original, and the part that is original is not good." Dr Samuel Johnson

[KaRl]

Chris Austin wrote:

I'll take that to be a yes

Not exactly - For instance, local workers can be paid over the minimum local wage, when the EU directive asks that paychecks are at least that minimum local wage.

Chris Austin wrote:

So, is this enforced in practice?

I don't know for UK, but generally unions are careful about it and don't hesitate to go to court.

Chris Austin wrote:

Does a roofer or mason from Italy get paid the same as a local tradesman when he comes to work in Paris? Or, are people paid "under the table" (in cash) at substantially less than their domestic counterpart?

If the worker is from Italy, (s)he could ask for the same wage than his/her french counterpart, or (s)he could go to court for discrimination. The issue comes when the worker works for a Italian company, he would work in France at the conditions of its Italian job, as long as it respects the EU directive. That could be less and sometimes way less than a worker working for a local company.

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[hairy_hats]

Dalek Dave wrote:

Xenophobia could relate to people from the next village.

See also: Norfolk

[Lost User]

That is bad and not aimed at equality at all.

[KaRl]

digital man wrote:

for a change, we are agreeing

Thanks God it's only superficial - or I should start worrying.

I prefer the company of peasants because they have not been educated sufficiently to reason incorrectly. Fold with us! ¤ flickr

[KaRl]

Dalek Dave wrote:

their jobs

Their jobs? They come from a foreign company.

Capitalism is the exploitation of man by man. Syndicalism is the opposite. Fold with us! ¤ flickr

[KaRl]

Dalek Dave wrote:

No, they are required to be paid a wage concurrent with their home country, therefore undercutting UK minimum wage.

No, this is not true[^]

Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first; nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first Fold with us! ¤ flickr

[Dalek Dave]

:confused: The British Workers in Britain are against any company in Britain bringing in foreign workers to do a job they ought to be doing. Ford employs people all over the world, but it does not bring in Americans to buld the cars in different countries. Ditto Coke, McDonalds, Hoover, Sony etc. Or are you saying that only people who are from the country of origin of a company are to be employed? In that case there would be a lot of people all over the world unemployed.

------------------------------------ "Your manuscript is both good and original. But the part that is good is not original, and the part that is original is not good." Dr Samuel Johnson

[Dalek Dave]

It is true. They are being given food and accomodation and this is deemed part of the remuneration, this is a) Legal and b) undercutting the final Wage bill. (The accommodation is charged at a fixed rate, and is cheaper than the locals pay for theirs, so it reflects a difference in wage costs and benefits.) Please read the details of these things before you start attacking the concerns of the locals!

------------------------------------ "Your manuscript is both good and original. But the part that is good is not original, and the part that is original is not good." Dr Samuel Johnson

[Baconbutty]

We'd also get UK people manning the call centres instead of Indian people whose name is "Martin" or "Richard".

My new favourite phrase - "misdirected leisure activity"

[Dalek Dave]

I have told this before, but is worth a repost... I received a call from what is obviously an Indian Call Centre, and a chap claiming to be called Ken. "Is that really your name" I asked. "No, but we find it better than our own names which are often harder to pronounce" cometh the reply. "OK, so you have started this call by lying to me, what makes you think anything else you say will be believed?" CLICK

------------------------------------ "Your manuscript is both good and original. But the part that is good is not original, and the part that is original is not good." Dr Samuel Johnson

[Chris Austin]

Richard A. Abbott wrote:

However, pay "under the table" is tantamount to the "black economy" and should always be discouraged and is thus illegal,

Of course it's illegal, I am just curious about it's use in the EU.

Richard A. Abbott wrote:

Minimum wages means exactly as defined by law - namely the minimum your employer is required to pay for your labour.

So, are imported tradesmen paid below the local prevailing wage for equivalent work?

Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long

[Chris Austin]

Ka?l wrote:

That could be less and sometimes way less than a worker working for a local company.

And you still think people are being Xenophobic? I'd see it as them wanting to protect their way of life or to put in words I've heard coming out of France "Protecting their culture" and "Not wanting to become a nation of paupers." I'm not making any value judgement, this is just how I see it.

Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long

[Lost User]

Chris Austin wrote:

are imported tradesmen paid below the local prevailing wage for equivalent work?

A question for you Chris that perhaps demonstrates the problem. With respect to the "home grown" all American citizen, are you happy with the numbers of Mexicans working (legally or illegally) in USA, and their respective conditions of employment that may in fact be to the detriment of your own country's local all American citizens? In other words, are your local all American citizens being priced out of their own local employment market by such Mexican "imports"?

[Diego Moita]

Dalek Dave wrote:

You are wrong to use the term Xenophobia, that merely means irrational fear of strangers.

No, Karl is not wrong. Xenophobia is not only a psychological/psychiatric anomaly as you try to imply. It is also a political ideology, part of what you call "Nationalistic Resentment". And the most common meaning of this word is political[^]. "Xenos", the root of the word, means also "foreigner" in Greek. And "foreigner" has a clear political meaning: someone coming from a different state (what we call today nation).

---

Of all forms of sexual aberration, the most unnatural is abstinence.

[Chris Austin]

Richard A. Abbott wrote:

are you happy with the numbers of Mexicans working (legally or illegally) in USA, and their respective conditions of employment that may in fact be to the detriment of your own country's local all American citizens?

No. I despise the way it has worked out and I take almost painful (and unpopular) steps to make sure my contractors and handymen are on the up and up.

Richard A. Abbott wrote:

In other words, are your local all American citizens being priced out of their own local employment market by such Mexican "imports"?

I don't know about being priced out. But, I can say I have seen it cause a real downward price pressure on certain jobs and work. As a consumer, I guess I am supposed to be pleased with this. But, as someone who likes to plan things long term I see it as terribly short-sighted and harmful.

Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long