Some whacky ideas
-
Most people have heard some parts or versions of conspiracy theories surrounding Martial Law Rex84 FEMA death/concentration/forced labor/detention camps (depending on version). Of course most of these are concocted by taking a few facts and stretching a lot of speculation over them to 'find' a relationship. Rex84 and the 2 or 3 predecessor plans are real. Some of these camps are real. In fact, recently a congressman from Florida proposed a bill that would build no less than 6 more camps. The problem is, nobody (in the public) really knows what they are for and what it all means. Rex84 and the previous plans were briefly explained to be for the continuity of government in case of some catastrophic emergency (undefined). As a result of all the secrecy, theories range from the unthinkable to the laughable. From dictatorial take over, to Biblical Armageddon to alien invasion. So when looking at anything related, you really have to take what you read with a large grain of salt (say, like a cow-lick). Case in point, a good portion of this posting on FreeRepublic[^] is pretty out there, and has perspectives from most of the major conspiracy theories. I present the link as context... Looking at these seemingly off the wall actions by several states, the list of orders in the FreeRepublic posting look strikingly familiar: States prepare to combat stimulus strings[^] New Hampshire's HCR 6[^] Add the NorthCom deployment last year following the removal of Posse Comitadus, and some more recent domestic urban exercises[^]. And suddenly, some of the nuttier ra
-
Most people have heard some parts or versions of conspiracy theories surrounding Martial Law Rex84 FEMA death/concentration/forced labor/detention camps (depending on version). Of course most of these are concocted by taking a few facts and stretching a lot of speculation over them to 'find' a relationship. Rex84 and the 2 or 3 predecessor plans are real. Some of these camps are real. In fact, recently a congressman from Florida proposed a bill that would build no less than 6 more camps. The problem is, nobody (in the public) really knows what they are for and what it all means. Rex84 and the previous plans were briefly explained to be for the continuity of government in case of some catastrophic emergency (undefined). As a result of all the secrecy, theories range from the unthinkable to the laughable. From dictatorial take over, to Biblical Armageddon to alien invasion. So when looking at anything related, you really have to take what you read with a large grain of salt (say, like a cow-lick). Case in point, a good portion of this posting on FreeRepublic[^] is pretty out there, and has perspectives from most of the major conspiracy theories. I present the link as context... Looking at these seemingly off the wall actions by several states, the list of orders in the FreeRepublic posting look strikingly familiar: States prepare to combat stimulus strings[^] New Hampshire's HCR 6[^] Add the NorthCom deployment last year following the removal of Posse Comitadus, and some more recent domestic urban exercises[^]. And suddenly, some of the nuttier ra
I can verify that Fort Chaffee, AR, is a concentration camp. My national guard unit was there in about 1984 and we had to live in tents out in the piney woods becasue the cubans were in the barracks. It made keeping the beer truck supplied very difficult and there was a great deal of whining among the troops. Although, Gamma Goat Brenda apparently did her part to aliviate that.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
-
I can verify that Fort Chaffee, AR, is a concentration camp. My national guard unit was there in about 1984 and we had to live in tents out in the piney woods becasue the cubans were in the barracks. It made keeping the beer truck supplied very difficult and there was a great deal of whining among the troops. Although, Gamma Goat Brenda apparently did her part to aliviate that.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
What struck me as interesting, was the recent action of these states, proposing bills that warn the fed in no uncertain terms that "if you pull any of this crap, we're outa here". Makes me wonder even more what we're not being told.
Visit BoneSoft.com for code generation tools (XML & XSD -> C#, VB, etc...) and some free developer tools as well.
-
What struck me as interesting, was the recent action of these states, proposing bills that warn the fed in no uncertain terms that "if you pull any of this crap, we're outa here". Makes me wonder even more what we're not being told.
Visit BoneSoft.com for code generation tools (XML & XSD -> C#, VB, etc...) and some free developer tools as well.
BoneSoft wrote:
What struck me as interesting, was the recent action of these states, proposing bills that warn the fed in no uncertain terms that "if you pull any of this crap, we're outa here". Makes me wonder even more what we're not being told.
That is a most interesting and encouraging sign. The simple fact of the matter is that most of the power exercised by the modern federal government at virtually every level is flagrantly unconstitutional, and was declared unconstitutional at some point in our history. None of it could stand up to a real, heartfelt, contest in the courts. That is the greatest challange for the left - preventing the American people from realizing that the entire power structure of the US federal governemnt is literally built on a house of cards - bizarre and contorted interpretations of a constitution that was crafted specifically to disallow most of this kind of behavior. The only reason it has been acceptable to so many for so long is because we have benefitted from it economically. Now that it becomes more and more economically onerous, the challange of keeping it in place will be ever more daunting. That is precisely why I welcome the eonomic chaos, and hope it continues and worsens. It took economic devastation to create it, and it will take economic devastation to destroy it. One way or another, if it is real, it should all precipitate the greatest constitutional crisis in our history. Once it all starts to unravel, it will unravel completely.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
-
BoneSoft wrote:
What struck me as interesting, was the recent action of these states, proposing bills that warn the fed in no uncertain terms that "if you pull any of this crap, we're outa here". Makes me wonder even more what we're not being told.
That is a most interesting and encouraging sign. The simple fact of the matter is that most of the power exercised by the modern federal government at virtually every level is flagrantly unconstitutional, and was declared unconstitutional at some point in our history. None of it could stand up to a real, heartfelt, contest in the courts. That is the greatest challange for the left - preventing the American people from realizing that the entire power structure of the US federal governemnt is literally built on a house of cards - bizarre and contorted interpretations of a constitution that was crafted specifically to disallow most of this kind of behavior. The only reason it has been acceptable to so many for so long is because we have benefitted from it economically. Now that it becomes more and more economically onerous, the challange of keeping it in place will be ever more daunting. That is precisely why I welcome the eonomic chaos, and hope it continues and worsens. It took economic devastation to create it, and it will take economic devastation to destroy it. One way or another, if it is real, it should all precipitate the greatest constitutional crisis in our history. Once it all starts to unravel, it will unravel completely.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Stan Shannon wrote:
It took economic devastation to create it, and it will take economic devastation to destroy it. One way or another, if it is real, it should all precipitate the greatest constitutional crisis in our history. Once it all starts to unravel, it will unravel completely.
My fearless prediction: The pendulum will swing in a liberal direction for at least a generation as a result of both the economic crisis and climate change. You and I will both be in our graves before it swings back.
John Carson
-
Stan Shannon wrote:
It took economic devastation to create it, and it will take economic devastation to destroy it. One way or another, if it is real, it should all precipitate the greatest constitutional crisis in our history. Once it all starts to unravel, it will unravel completely.
My fearless prediction: The pendulum will swing in a liberal direction for at least a generation as a result of both the economic crisis and climate change. You and I will both be in our graves before it swings back.
John Carson
John Carson wrote:
You and I will both be in our graves before it swings back.
only if you die before 2012
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
-
John Carson wrote:
You and I will both be in our graves before it swings back.
only if you die before 2012
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
only if you die before 2012
Place your bets. The anti-government crowd has been in the ascendant for the last 30 years or so (at least in ideological terms --- this hasn't always been reflected in the size of government). I predict that the pro-government crowd is now in for a similar run.
John Carson
-
Mike Gaskey wrote:
only if you die before 2012
Place your bets. The anti-government crowd has been in the ascendant for the last 30 years or so (at least in ideological terms --- this hasn't always been reflected in the size of government). I predict that the pro-government crowd is now in for a similar run.
John Carson
I agree with your historical assessment but I don't think the country has a prolonged appetite for more than 4 years of the reverse. We're both dealing with opinion and gut feelings: I personally think the bloom will fade in 2 to 3 years at the most.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
-
I agree with your historical assessment but I don't think the country has a prolonged appetite for more than 4 years of the reverse. We're both dealing with opinion and gut feelings: I personally think the bloom will fade in 2 to 3 years at the most.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
Unfortunately, I think Carson is right, and you and Stan are engaging in wishful thinking. The confluence of events, the normal political climate cycle, and the profound incompetence of the second Bush term have combined to give the left momentum for at least the next decade.
-
Stan Shannon wrote:
It took economic devastation to create it, and it will take economic devastation to destroy it. One way or another, if it is real, it should all precipitate the greatest constitutional crisis in our history. Once it all starts to unravel, it will unravel completely.
My fearless prediction: The pendulum will swing in a liberal direction for at least a generation as a result of both the economic crisis and climate change. You and I will both be in our graves before it swings back.
John Carson
That would only be true if what we are being told about the extent of the financial crisis is not true. If it is true, we are in a completely different ball game. The old historic cycles are completely useless as predictors. But certainly, if the crisis is not nearly as bad as defined, if Obama can get control of it, than absolutely, they will have control for the next seveal decades, if not permanently. Conservatism will have been entirely invalidated as a viable political option. The pendulum might swing back in some direction, but it will never swing back towards anything resembling traditional American civilization.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
-
Unfortunately, I think Carson is right, and you and Stan are engaging in wishful thinking. The confluence of events, the normal political climate cycle, and the profound incompetence of the second Bush term have combined to give the left momentum for at least the next decade.
Rob Graham wrote:
the normal political climate cycle
Thats the big question though. Is anything that is going on actually 'normal'?
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
-
Unfortunately, I think Carson is right, and you and Stan are engaging in wishful thinking. The confluence of events, the normal political climate cycle, and the profound incompetence of the second Bush term have combined to give the left momentum for at least the next decade.
Rob Graham wrote:
you and Stan are engaging in wishful thinking
I'm doing more than that, I'm giving voice to my opposition plus support to candidates that want to do more than create a nation of gimmeys.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
-
Rob Graham wrote:
the normal political climate cycle
Thats the big question though. Is anything that is going on actually 'normal'?
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
I think a small part of what is going on is "normal" - after 8 years of republican domination things were likely to move left a bit, particularly with an increasingly unpopular war. The 2nd Bush term was full of blunders, staring with the waste of political capital on SS reform, katrina, and corruption problems. All of these would have resulted in a change of direction (as the 2006 election showed). The incredible economic mess that began to be obvious in 2007 with the collapse of Countrywide, that was either missed or ignored by the administration, leading to the October 2008 collapse - just sealed the outcome (and made it sufficiently one-sided to insure that in the early going the winners could claim and exercise a "mandate"). Add to that the "prophsies of impending economic calamity" started by Paulson, and gleefully picked up by Obama, and you have what we see. The "New World Order" conspiracy stuff still seems a very big stretch, but it is not a surprise to see conservatives adopting it, it serves as a convenient way to avoid having to admit that they bungled the last 4 years (at least) and threw away their access to power for the foreseeable future.
-
Rob Graham wrote:
you and Stan are engaging in wishful thinking
I'm doing more than that, I'm giving voice to my opposition plus support to candidates that want to do more than create a nation of gimmeys.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
Good. Got any suggestions, I sure don't see many choices out there that I like. (the few that are at all appealing are Libertarians...)
-
That would only be true if what we are being told about the extent of the financial crisis is not true. If it is true, we are in a completely different ball game. The old historic cycles are completely useless as predictors. But certainly, if the crisis is not nearly as bad as defined, if Obama can get control of it, than absolutely, they will have control for the next seveal decades, if not permanently. Conservatism will have been entirely invalidated as a viable political option. The pendulum might swing back in some direction, but it will never swing back towards anything resembling traditional American civilization.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Stan Shannon wrote:
The old historic cycles are completely useless as predictors.
I would argue that that is not at all the case, but rather that we tend to take to short a view of those cycles (and perhaps lack enough data). 1837, 1873, 1930, 2008... Not many data points to figure out what the long cycle might be, but 35-60 years looks suspicious. This[^] is a strong candidate in my opinion.
-
Good. Got any suggestions, I sure don't see many choices out there that I like. (the few that are at all appealing are Libertarians...)
Rob Graham wrote:
Good. Got any suggestions
Arlen Spector's opponent in the up coming Pennsylvania GOP primary, run up to 2010. Barbara Boxer's GOP opponent, also for 2010. Bobby Jindal. Sarah Palin. Sanford. -> 3 governors. For 2012, my favorite in Palin as a populist on the conservative side but Jindal and Sanford would get me going door to door as well. Cantor, Pence in teh House are good, DeMint is becoming a star. I contend that Obama is a media creation and his decisions early on show that he's not much more.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
-
Unfortunately, I think Carson is right, and you and Stan are engaging in wishful thinking. The confluence of events, the normal political climate cycle, and the profound incompetence of the second Bush term have combined to give the left momentum for at least the next decade.
Rob Graham wrote:
The confluence of events, the normal political climate cycle, and the profound incompetence of the second Bush term have combined to give the left momentum for at least the next decade.
Are you assuming that we will pull out of the recession within the next four years, or that, like FDR, Obama will be seen as doing better than anyone else could?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.
-
Rob Graham wrote:
you and Stan are engaging in wishful thinking
I'm doing more than that, I'm giving voice to my opposition plus support to candidates that want to do more than create a nation of gimmeys.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
I'm doing more than that, I'm giving voice to my opposition plus support to candidates that want to do more than create a nation of gimmeys.
Sweeping back the tide with a broom, Mike? From where I sit, we'd both be better off building a boat. Big ones.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.
-
Rob Graham wrote:
The confluence of events, the normal political climate cycle, and the profound incompetence of the second Bush term have combined to give the left momentum for at least the next decade.
Are you assuming that we will pull out of the recession within the next four years, or that, like FDR, Obama will be seen as doing better than anyone else could?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.
I don't see how we pull out of this anytime soon. There is just too much of a mess. I think the massive spending spree will limit the severity, but the subsequent inflation will prevent any recovery for some time. All bets are off if the rest of the world loses confidence in US Treasuries, and we get a bond collapse on top of everything else (this is worrisome, as the rates on the long bond keep rising, even as the FED holds the short term rates almost negative). I don't see how the Republicans recover as long as the economy remains in the ditch,IMO the Democrats have already successfully blamed this on them, and can make the :do you trust the guys that caused this to do any better" argument work for at least the next 4 elections, longer if they get marginal improvement to point at. By 2016 it will be a whole new ball game, and those of us here won't recognize any of the players. Unfortunately, we live in "Interesting Times"...
-
Mike Gaskey wrote:
I'm doing more than that, I'm giving voice to my opposition plus support to candidates that want to do more than create a nation of gimmeys.
Sweeping back the tide with a broom, Mike? From where I sit, we'd both be better off building a boat. Big ones.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.
Oakman wrote:
Sweeping back the tide with a broom
Not by myself unless we're really a nation of lost balls.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.